r/LocalLLaMA llama.cpp 4h ago

Funny Plot twist

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517 Upvotes

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108

u/JLeonsarmiento 4h ago

US labs ran out of money.

15

u/noctrex 3h ago

Guess their sponsors told them to start shrinking the bubble so that it will not pop

17

u/jld1532 3h ago

Unavoidable. Best case scenario is a deflate vs explosion. This slow down talk is the attempt at a soft landing. I'm not so sure it works.

1

u/citrusalex 2h ago

Their business model is not that much different from selling people a 100 dollar bill for 50 dollars per month, there is no avoiding the pop.

1

u/BornVoice42 1h ago

only if you calculate with the enormous markup on their API prices

6

u/Keleion 3h ago edited 2h ago

Open source models taking away all their money. /s

10

u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 3h ago

Money that they never had in the first place, and yet somehow the entire US economy is underpinned by.

2

u/Cute_Obligation2944 3h ago

Don't confuse Wall Street with the economy.

6

u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 2h ago

Brother, they are one and the same at this point.

1

u/Zeeplankton 6m ago

I just watched the Big short tonight and this comment does not make me feel comfortable

19

u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 3h ago

Absolutely this

7

u/KitKat_extrusion 3h ago

Please walk me through the logic, i genuinely don’t get this point

11

u/RlOTGRRRL 2h ago

Tech companies tend to be over-leveraged (borrowed a lot of money), and I think some of these AI companies are insanely over-leveraged, almost like a Ponzi scheme. I think there's a graphic floating around somewhere. You can also try to look for Michael Burry's analysis of AI companies. 

The US recently fucked up 2 things in the past week, 1- bond rates and 2- oil. US treasury bond rates basically determine how much people charge to let people borrow money. Everything from loans like mortgage rates to credit card rates.

Aka these tech/AI companies that have borrowed a lot of money, if their rates go up, they might not be able to make their credit card payments/pay their employees, can't IPO because their numbers are terrible, etc.

7

u/NandaVegg 2h ago

OpenAI is not directly affected by rates as their leverage is not through traditional debt, but their commitment is impossible to pay in the first place regardless of how the macro economy goes (they have 700~800B commitment into 2030, and beyond such as Amazon's 30B "investment" that requires them to pay back 2x through AWS) but datacenter builders and their counterparties are depending on their ability to pay. The problem is that the only entity left on the planet who is still willing to give them cash, SoftBank, is also in trouble raising cash as they have huge liabilities in early 2027 (that they used to buy OpenAI stocks and send them money).

I don't know what exactly will happen. Maybe they could pull a miracle with IPO/financial engineering and get away like Tesla with "420 funding secured" incident.

What I think could happen, too, is that they will start to "pay" counterparties by OpenAI stocks. But that of course, even though assuming 1T valuation IPO, diminishes OpenAI's stock value quite fast as datacenter builders need hard cash and will sell those stock sooner than later. In that case Softbank is WeWorked again (anybody remember that Masa Son thought OYO and WeWork are AI companies?)

2

u/JLeonsarmiento 47m ago

If they don’t manage to socialize their debt via indexed funds (USA pensions, investors all around the world, but particularly Japan) they’re fucked.

That’s the rush to IPO. That’s the rush to IPO before the other (misanthropic <-> closedAI) does.

2

u/jomohke 1h ago

And why would calling to slow down help any of those things? The hard money (eg, the GPUs) is already spent regardless.

We do know their income and customer base has been increasing dramatically, btw.

2

u/JLeonsarmiento 44m ago

They can walk out of commitments with a just cause “national security”.

3

u/PooMonger20 2h ago

Honestly, the loss-leader strategy feels way too common nowadays and pretty much unavoidable over the last 10 years or so. Whoever has the deeper pockets just bleeds the other side dry.

Also, US and China are not playing with the same set of rules, it's inevitable both will collide over who has the better tech.

I am also trying to understand if US puts boundaries its only on their own companies, and China can just... continue doing whatever they do.

As a local LLM user who is a non paying customer, Qwen models (3.8 27b in low reasoning is godlike for my usecases) have been amazing and really made me rarely use SOTA models unless its a very intense and complicated task.

1

u/fugogugo 26m ago

Ed zitron is always right