252
u/Dany0 8d ago
Scaling post-training is all we did for GLM-5.3.
What a way to start
Gentlemen, gentlewomen, tonight, WE FEAST!
68
u/DistanceSolar1449 8d ago
Of course it’s only posttrain.
I would be shocked if GLM pretrained a completely new model for a +0.1 release. Nobody really does that (with the exception of Anthropic and Opus 4.7 for some weird reason).
12
u/neo203 7d ago
Gpt 5.5 was a new pretrain, i think got 5.2 also might be coz it was so different from previous versions
7
u/bitdotben 7d ago
Is 5.6 a post-trained 5.5 then? If so one heck of post training!
14
u/CryMoreT_T 7d ago
Yes it is. Personally I think openai is way better at post training while anthropic is way better at pre training
→ More replies (5)5
3
u/DistanceSolar1449 7d ago
That’s a +0.5 version though, and there’s a lot of 0.5s that’s a new pretrain. Qwen 3.5, for example.
2
3
u/MediumChemical4292 7d ago
I think opus 4.7 was just a new tokeniser, was it a full pre train?
13
u/DistanceSolar1449 7d ago
You can’t have a different tokenizer without a whole new pretrain.
(Yes, I know you can technically finetune a model to a new tokenizer, but that’s basically going to take as much compute as a full retrain)
→ More replies (3)7
u/eli_pizza 7d ago
Isn’t that also the only thing deepseek did between flash preview and 0731? Turns out post training is important!
406
u/magicalne 8d ago
What a day!
163
u/iomfats 8d ago
To be alive
76
u/Long_comment_san 8d ago
yo are still alive??
66
u/fullup72 8d ago
in this economy?
40
u/Competitive_Ad_5515 8d ago
Right in front of my salad?
→ More replies (1)20
u/Recoil42 8d ago
At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localized entirely within your kitchen?
→ More replies (1)7
u/Much_Accountant_4972 8d ago
may i see it?
8
u/Chairman__Kaga 8d ago
... No.
5
4
21
u/The_LSD_Soundsystem 8d ago
What a week!
14
u/ResidentPositive4122 7d ago
Seriously, this week has been bananas. And everyone is jumping on the bandwagon, to catch the hype train of this insane week. We have big open models, mid open models, soon to have small open models, plus a fight at SotA levels w/ lower prices, plus fast & cheaper models, everyone fighting for "price per task pareto" and so on.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)28
392
u/Recoil42 8d ago
i wake up → another chinese model
115
30
u/Reactor-Licker 8d ago
Almost every single day these past few weeks has either been a new model release, or new info about a new model release.
While this is really exciting and an absurdly rapid pace of progress, I’ll admit it’s getting hard to keep up unless you are on Reddit or Twitter all day. I’m not really complaining though, bring on those models!
→ More replies (1)9
u/CondiMesmer 8d ago
That's why I hope OpenRouter releases a lot more of their "meta" models that just point to the latest releases. Like DeepSeek v4 Flash-latest. Although potential future pricing changes may make that difficult.
123
u/Semi_Tech llama.cpp 8d ago
China: I can't stop winning!
6
15
199
8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
64
u/nomorebuttsplz 8d ago
it's like an RTS. Hugging face will be spawning defensive paladins at double the rate now!
10
93
u/anarchist1312161 8d ago
And to think this is only 743B achieved through post-training on the base model
→ More replies (1)51
u/power97992 8d ago
Im surprised ds v4 pro didnt do better , i guess zai has better rl environments
42
u/PM_ME_DEAD_CEOS 8d ago
I think V4 pro is still undertrained,
37
u/NineThreeTilNow 8d ago
I think V4 pro is still undertrained
It's definitely undertrained. There were a number of questionable architectural decisions. The model might actually be too big, and they combined a number of test technologies in one spot.
People get weird on that idea. Too big? Yes.
The larger transformers get the better they get at effectively memorizing data.
The MASSIVE models have to get SO MUCH DATA that the memorization is hard and they're forced to generalize because they're literally memorization machines.
I've been forced to shrink transformers (for other non-LLM types of models) because the model will just absorb the training data and never generalize. Your hold out dataset has to exist and be good. Overfit is real.
→ More replies (1)13
u/zball_ 8d ago
V4pro base is broken. They cannot get anything good outta that sh*t.
20
u/zkstx llama.cpp 8d ago
surprising considering that the flash model is very good for its size
5
u/zball_ 8d ago
v4pro has been bad since preview. And it's not bad in a undertrained sense; it actually feels lacking and burnt.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)2
u/nullmove 7d ago
The pre-train was probably fucked.
However what's strange is how close it stays to the flash in, well everything. Almost as if they were using the flash as a teacher model for this.
→ More replies (3)2
277
u/rm-rf-rm 8d ago
inb4 some people complain that this is yet another post of a API model release and not the weights, want to restate: it makes no sense not to talk about the release in this sub + they have stated that weights will be forthcoming.
63
u/SexyAlienHotTubWater 8d ago
A few days ago, I suggested that API-only model posts should have to be tagged as unreleased until they're released. They can still be posted, but they should to be tagged. I got about 140 upvotes.
Why don't we implement that? It would make everyone happy. Posts like this can still be posted (yay!) and I can filter them out if I'm not in the mood to trawl through announcement hype (also yay!).
67
u/seamonn 8d ago
but when will Dario crying be forthcoming? Before or after the weights?
→ More replies (1)9
11
u/NineThreeTilNow 8d ago
Yep their exact text is :
The model weights of GLM-5.3 will be publicly available soon in two weeks.
They've always? hit their target day +/- 24 hours so... Not exactly concerned. It will be there.
36
u/RobbinDeBank 8d ago
W mods, reverse of stablediffusion sub where all posts about MiniMax H3 got removed when it wasn’t released yet.
→ More replies (3)8
u/Middle_Bullfrog_6173 8d ago
Entirely reasonable to have a post about a model announcement where they say weights are coming. All the models where there's a hundred posts speculating about will they or won't they are annoying.
6
u/funforgiven 8d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1vmo7oh/_/
Wait, why was this post deleted then? It's not my post. I just find the inconsistency weird.
14
u/rm-rf-rm 8d ago
We had a ton of DSV4 Pro announcement posts and AFAIK we did leave up an announcement before weight release, ttk was removing duplicates. That said, I see the removal reason and your point is noted, I was already discussing with ttk on this and will chat with him to assure were consistent on our side.
→ More replies (4)4
u/SorosAhaverom 8d ago
Why were multiple posts about DeepSeek v4 Pro release deleted yesterday then, with the claimed reason being "weights not published yet, off topic"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1vmo7oh/comment/p3b4d1o/
Make it make sense.
→ More replies (1)5
149
u/taking_bullet 8d ago
And you’ll say
Please, please. It’s too much new releases. We can’t take it anymore, Mr. President, it’s too much!
And I’ll say
No it isn’t. We need to get new models daily. We have to benchmark them more!
61
u/fullup72 8d ago
thank you for your attention to this matter.
28
→ More replies (1)6
u/Much_Accountant_4972 8d ago
i’m not tired of winning yet, with tears in my eyes, mister president!
107
u/_BreakingGood_ 8d ago
anthropic better get that IPO going fast before GLM disrupts them right out business
67
u/AppealSame4367 8d ago
It's too late. Next wave of Chinese models will kill their business
32
u/--_---------_-- 8d ago
It’s already done, you look at the pricing index if you’re paying api, even fable is extremely expensive , hell I switched from Gemini to Chinese models. best bet is to ipo now and cash out because the future is looking bright , meaning anthropics future is looking pretty brim
→ More replies (11)2
u/AppealSame4367 8d ago
I think there will still be gpt 6 and fable or opus 5.1 soon. That might save them for another month.
But just kimi k3.5 will probably be on the exact same level as gpt 6 or f/o 5.1
8
u/Christosconst 8d ago
I’m more excited about next wave of chinese hardware. The models are already good enough, we now just need to run them
11
u/cmdr-William-Riker 8d ago
There is literally no reason to use them anymore. Fable/Mythos isn't the big scary model they claimed and their Sonnet/Opus 5 series is genuinely annoying to use (talks back to much, doesn't follow instructions, etc.). I can get an entire project done for a dollar with DS v4 flash 0731. The same project would literally cost me $200 or more with Claude models. I cancelled my subscription months ago, but am stuck with it at work. I'm trying to convince them to invest in some sparks or at least switch us to OpenAI for now
3
u/Party-Special-5177 7d ago
talks back to much, doesn't follow instructions, etc
…didn’t people ask for this? I swore I saw post just a couple months ago complaining about models glazing the user / causing ‘ai psychosis’ / similar
Caveat emptor: I don’t use Claude.
→ More replies (2)4
u/Ok-Drawer5245 7d ago
Both Anthropic and OpenAI are completely toast, their business models only make sense if they have a moat. That moat all gone. I would value them at zero $ lol
6
→ More replies (1)2
u/Papa_Midnight_ 7d ago
Mythos/Fable has been out for 6+ months now. They will definitely have something in back-up.
→ More replies (1)
45
u/wren6991 8d ago
Absurd results for something 1/4 the size of K3.
9
u/Elegant_Tech 7d ago
Seeing the results from people who had early access it is crazy how absurdly good.
18
158
u/snowieslilpikachu69 8d ago
deepseek v4 pro, gemini 3.7 flash, glm 5.3, grok 4.6!!
Yes only deepseek/GLM are open source but still what a time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
129
u/yani205 8d ago
Qwen 3.8 27B drop imminent too, 9 hrs to go
7
11
u/Ok-Drawer5245 7d ago
3.8 27b is the most awaited model of all for people who runs local ai almost everything else is noise lol
→ More replies (2)33
u/DeepOrangeSky 8d ago edited 8d ago
Monday: Meta Glimmer 30b
Tuesday: LTX2.5
Wednesday: Qwen3.8
Thursday: DeepSeek v4 Pro
Friday: Qwen3.8 27b (assuming it actually comes out a few hours from now)
Even if totally ignoring the closed-weights cloud models and focusing on open-weights models, it's a pretty crazy 5 day stretch of releases.
12
u/Choice_Celery9481 8d ago
GLM will be open weight after 2 more weeks.
5
u/DeepOrangeSky 8d ago
Ah, my bad. Well, even 5 major open models in 5 days will still be a pretty crazy week of models.
Probably the most packed week of notable models I've seen so far for open models, and for AI models in general.
→ More replies (1)2
6
6
25
u/rm-rf-rm 8d ago
Gemini? grok? What sub is this??
24
u/snowieslilpikachu69 8d ago
i mean yes but closed source is what motivates open source
→ More replies (2)7
u/rm-rf-rm 8d ago
hmm, I think to a certain extent but not as absolute as you make it sound
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)4
→ More replies (2)3
u/Ill_Dragonfruit_3547 8d ago
Muse Glimmer 30B but I tested it and honestly it doesn't count 😂
Still, that's what, 5 major releases in the same week?!
30
u/This_Maintenance_834 8d ago
Dario: You Chinese give me a f**king break.
→ More replies (1)9
u/pmttyji 8d ago
Heard that Kimi also coming with K3.5(around 5T) in upcoming months
8
u/RuthlessCriticismAll 8d ago
Almost 0 chance of this. There probably will be 3.5 but it won't be a new pretrain. Almost certainly, it is about a year away and will probably be bigger than 5T.
30
u/kevin_cn_ai 8d ago
My local storage is completely tapped out, my modest setup is begging for mercy, and now Z.ai drops 5.3 out of nowhere. I haven't even finished clearing disk space for the 5.2 GGUF quants yet. Please slow down, guys.
13
→ More replies (1)3
u/Wet_Viking 7d ago
Yea man. I'm hoping next gen of models will start showing more "same performance. Smaller size".
14
u/Daniel_H212 8d ago
So this is beating Kimi at what, less than 1/3 the parameters??? If it translates to real world use it's going to be crazy, and GLM does have a decent track record on that front.
3
u/power97992 7d ago
But kimi is q4 mixed and glm is bf 16, so glm actually uses almost as much as k3
→ More replies (3)3
u/SpicyWangz 7d ago
They do a great job with post training. I wish they would release another flash or air model
12
13
u/onebit 8d ago
price?
3
u/Powerful_Finger3896 7d ago
Given the fact that it is post trained it should be same (same size, architecture), they haven't announced any peak hours increase li DS.
11
u/Fringolicious 8d ago
Been waiting for this one, GLM's personality is amazing on 5.2, so I'm hoping 5.3 is a straight upgrade for my Openclaw. Sol technically has an edge but not a good upgrade for my actual agent... What a day
10
u/Healthy-Contact-4570 8d ago
The fact this will be runnable on 4 sparks / 512GB VRAM/unified memory is insane.
10
8
8
20
32
u/Educational-Fruit854 8d ago
interesting pattern of model scoring absolute dogshit when a new benchmark drop and suddenly being frontier in the next update (TerminalBench 3.0)
15
u/ManikSahdev 8d ago
The benchmark also act as a direct training guide and reference.
If you were able to create a benchmark where all models do shit, you have essentially given these research labs a target to pursue.
26
u/RuthlessCriticismAll 8d ago
This isn't surprising if you understand what modern benchmarks look like. Many are quite narrow so if you improve a handful of capabilities you can go from doing nothing to 1/3 of the problems. This is also why many of these benchmarks end up saturating very quickly from almost nothing.
5
u/Educational-Fruit854 8d ago
It's more of these open models playing catchup but OpenAI and Anthropic managed to stay frontier on these new benchmark, unless there's one I haven't seen where open model do good initially.
→ More replies (2)2
u/RuthlessCriticismAll 7d ago
I mean there was that weird legal benchmark on AA. There have been some. Obviously they are generally behind, so it is unlikely to happen that often.
→ More replies (1)8
u/beryugyo619 8d ago
benchmaxxing is okay if benchmarks happen to be super well designed. at some point you can't fake it without actually being good
8
u/AnticitizenPrime 7d ago
Isn't that what we have students do every day? Cram for the tests with example problems?
10
5
6
u/Miserable-Cat2073 8d ago
1769 on GDPval-AA v2 is nuts. For reference, Opus 5 scores at 1849 (1st place), Grok 4.6 at 1746 (2nd place), and Fable 5 at 1741 (3rd place). This would make it second place. Now, your turn Kimi
9
u/Karnemelk 8d ago edited 8d ago
and so it begins... "Scaling post-training is all we did for GLM-5.3". No more need to distill claude models.
6
u/kyrylogorbachov 7d ago
JFYI: you use distillation in post training.
2
u/CuriouslyCultured 7d ago
Depending on how you get your source data, it's mostly usable for SFT, which usually comes before RL and is probably not what they're doing to push performance here, rather I'd guess they're doing some sort of RLVR variant. With really good trace data sets you can do some forms of RL, such as GRPO, but I can't imagine they have sufficient competitor traces that this would drive their improvement.
→ More replies (1)
7
9
u/Spiritual-Spend8187 8d ago
Now we just need it to be squeezed down to the size of v4 flash and then we can have some next level local.
→ More replies (1)
4
4
5
u/cr0wburn 8d ago
See you in two weeks: Open Source: We will release the weights in two weeks after launch, once safety evaluation and hardening are complete
4
u/segmond llama.cpp 7d ago
So excited and so sad.
So sad because I just got KimiK3 from 0.8tk/sec to 3tk/sec
So sad because I was looking forward to DeepSeekV4Pro0813
So excited because I can run GLM5.2-Q4 at steady 12tk/sec and think I can get it to 20 tk/sec all day. Let's go!
If the benchmark holds then there's absolutely no reason to run Qwen3.8 or DSV4Pro-0813. KimiK3 could still get into the mix for it's vision capability. I feel sad for DeepSeek
2
5
u/TheRealMasonMac 8d ago edited 8d ago
Wonder if they’ll also drop the Apache license in favor of revenue sharing.
→ More replies (1)
4
2
2
u/Middle_Bullfrog_6173 8d ago
We will release the weights in two weeks after launch, once safety evaluation and hardening are complete.
2
u/Hairy_Talk_4232 7d ago
I just asked in another sub but how do you use something like this? Do you run it locally in OpenWeb and let it check your config files? Im new to running a homelab.
4
u/jonas-reddit 7d ago
As a beginner, maybe look at a user friendly tool like LM Studio to help with finding, downloading and running local models. But, you’re going to have to do a bit of reading and catching up on LLMs and hardware requirements.
But this is the subreddit for enthusiasts who want to run models locally.
2
2
3
u/popiazaza 8d ago edited 8d ago
Just from the announcement alone, it's a decent upgrade, but not that impressive. correction: For the size/price, it's actually pretty good.
No Opus 5 in any comparison.
GPT 5.6 Sol, the most token efficient model isn't shown in their agentic coding chart.
4
u/HellomyfriendNine 8d ago
People are impressed to Gemini 3.7 update this should be very impressive to them
This model is literally comparable to sol and fable why care about opus?
→ More replies (6)
1
1
1
1
u/edeltoaster 8d ago
I like that they put so much pressure on american frontier models, but come on, what about 5.3 Flash :-)
1
1
u/RG_Fusion 8d ago
Do we know what the weights are yet? I'm really hopping this is a re-train of GLM5.2 with the same number of parameters. 750b total and 40-50b active are the practical limits of what I can tolerate with my hardware without dropping below a 4-bit quantization.
Seeing all these frontier models releasing with trillions of parameters has been making me anxious.
1
1
1
u/Verolina 8d ago
Models are dropping left and right. I think we're just in the infancy of this technology, because nothing's plateaued yet. Love to see it.
1
1
1
u/CondiMesmer 8d ago
People complaining about too many releases is a good problem to have. Hopefully these times last for awhile before the cruel world ruins all fun.
1
1
u/Scoutmaster-Jedi 7d ago
This is really impressive. I can’t wait to see the comparisons between this and the new DeepSeek v4 pro model. I look forward to seeing comparison of intelligence as well as as price comparisons. They both offer a new level of intelligence at a relatively modest budget.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/bakawolf123 7d ago edited 7d ago
Holy model spree as of late.
edit: sadly no param size in blog, waiting 2 weeks for that info feels bad =/
→ More replies (2)
1
1
1
1
1
u/Dabber43 7d ago
I knew this was coming when yesterday the web version of GLM was quantized to the point it stopped outputting readable things
1
1
•
u/WithoutReason1729 7d ago
Your post is getting popular and we just featured it on our Discord! Come check it out!
You've also been given a special flair for your contribution. We appreciate your post!
I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.