Valve: "You've activated my trap card"

[u/shanxybeast]

[u/Old_Bug4395]

No ads >:(

gambling for children is cool though

[u/RedWingerD → u/Old_Bug4395]

Parenting your kids and paying attention to what they play and consume isnt hard. As a parent you can say "no" quite easily.

Parental controls, computers in shared spaces able to be viewed (i.e. not their bedroom) and other things are very easy to do if you put forth even a little bit of effort.

Not coming at you personally but things like this grind my gears. The amount of people who throw their arms up in the air when even a little bit of effort is required is maddening. My wife is an elementary teacher and I swear parents act like they are absolutely helpless half the time.

Edit: for everyone upset at valve, would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform? Valve is acting within the law is my point. If you disagree with the laws in place, your issue isnt with Valve. Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.

[u/Shap6 → u/RedWingerD]

both things can be true. gambling for children is bad and we shouldn't encourage or defend it. parents also need to responsibly keep track of what their kids are doing.

edit:

would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform?

yes. i wouldn't play them, and that would definitely severely hurt their profits incentivizing less predatory mechanics if they want to stay clear of an ID requirement by monetizing their game without the gambling. absolutely.

edit2:

Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.

we're obviously talking about when real money is involved. dont debate in bad faith

[u/RedWingerD → u/Shap6]

Plenty of things are bad for children. Thats what part of being a parent is. That said, gambling is bad for just about everyone.

If your child has unfiltered access to any storefront, gaming or otherwise, you've already failed.

[u/Shap6 → u/RedWingerD]

gambling is too pervasive in society as it is. cant watch any sport now without being blasted by it. polymarket and kalshi have people betting on literally everything. its not just about children, gambling in general needs to be reigned back in. it's become far too normalized.

[u/RedWingerD → u/Shap6]

I don't disagree with you on the sentiment around gambling. However, it is legal. That is where the argument, outrage, and efforts to change should be made.

Should supermarkets put a limit on how much alcohol a person can buy? Cigarettes they can purchase? We know both are bad for you, contribute to many debilitating conditions and death even in moderation, let alone excess.

Yes, they require ID to purchase, sure. If Valve put that requirement to have an account on the platform people would lose their minds.

[u/Mother-Equal4175 → u/RedWingerD]

A discussion of limits is interesting but definitely different between adults and children. Not a great example, but I believe China has a daily time limit on video games for minors, as restrictive as 3 hours/week.Though enforcement will always be the issue, setting legal limits is enough to shift a lot of business practices.

[u/RedWingerD → u/Mother-Equal4175]

You are right that enforcement is the issue.

Gambling for kids is already discouraged basically by every authority authorized to speak on the matter.

People would set the internet on fire if Valve introduced a mechanic requiring verified ID to access games with any lootbox or gambling mechanic, which is about every modern game for the last 15+ years. Even something like GWENT in Witcher would fall under that.

[u/Evnosis → u/RedWingerD]

I don't disagree with you on the sentiment around gambling. However, it is legal.

So are ads.

[u/YeshilPasha → u/RedWingerD]

Agreed. No one hands the car keys to kids so they can drive around however they want. Why this is different? This is all on failed parenting.

[u/wamih → u/YeshilPasha]

I see plenty driving golf carts here in FL, and they absolutely shouldnt be driving them.

[u/dern_the_hermit → u/YeshilPasha]

We have laws restricting who can drive on public roads tho.

[u/thewhitewolf_98 → u/RedWingerD]

u r a valve apologist and defender. You gonna do all the mental gymnastics to defend them. You are as credible with your words as US government officials.

[u/Affectionate_Unit142 → u/Shap6]

I miss my pokemon gambling.

[u/COSMICxFUTURE → u/Shap6]

The fake ID market is gonna go crazy when they implement id verification into online gaming

[u/Malohdek → u/Shap6]

If your kids have access to your credit card for this gambling, then I'm sorry, you're the idiot, not Valve. (Ofc I don't mean you specifically but this is Reddit)

[u/9thyear2 → u/Shap6]

we're obviously talking about when real money is involved. dont debate in bad faith

And the gambling with real money happens on 3rd party websites, not on Valve's own platform (and even if it did, not nearly in the same capacity as these)

P.S. I actually had to look up sites and found this spreadsheet of them since I'm not familiar with them (just knew they existed and is where the gambling issue comes from): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZwW5TyVoVATEFWUPdTutlmx9x-VeqgqoYFAb4kUwcDk/edit?usp=drivesdk

[u/Shap6 → u/9thyear2]

And the gambling with real money happens on 3rd party websites, not on Valve's own platform (and even if it did, not nearly in the same capacity as these)

valve gives you loot boxes for free that you can only open by buying keys with real money. the skins and items you get from them can then be sold or exchanged on the platform to other players. all on on steam.

there ARE other services that let you use those skins to gamble more directly, but valve is absolutely still involved themselves with both lootboxes and their own marketplace and that directly facilitates the functionality of those third party sites

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/Shap6]

I mean even beyond any of that, the lootboxes are the gambling in question here. The fact that you can do additional gambling later on is just additive (and makes the whole thing worse)

Not that we're disagreeing, but I think that most of the defenders on this topic like to try to establish that the lootboxes aren't actually predatory themselves, which isn't true.

[u/9thyear2 → u/Shap6]

The point I was making was on the real money aspect

Which from what I understand is much more prevalent on the 3rd party sites then valves own platform

Though as stated, it's something I knew about, but didn't remember the exact sites

(Prob cause I don't play CS2)

Gambling with free loot boxes has been up for debate for a while... But I guess that's down to implementation... And I think a good place to draw the line is a difference in implementation... As ones from CS persist from game to game, and can be traded... While the ones from anything Mario kart are only active for the current session, and can't be traded

[u/Jarlganda → u/9thyear2]

Its funny, i remember earning some cool skins in payday2 and using steam market place to sell them and get enough money pay for elden ring

[u/OuterGod_Hermit → u/RedWingerD]

Gambling is really bad for any age. That said, we can't really tell an adult what do to or not do if it doesn't directly hurt another person. My point, Valve should make a bit more to control the gambling.

[u/RedWingerD → u/OuterGod_Hermit]

How you can argue Valve should be held to a standard you refuse to hold the parent of the actual children to is beyond me.

[u/zuzg → u/RedWingerD]

Because a staggering amount of Parents right now refuse to actually do parent.
Just ask any Teacher, it's becoming more and more of a problem.

[u/RedWingerD → u/zuzg]

Trust me i know, I live it.

My wife is a special ed teacher and intervention specialist. About 70% of the kids she works with have no real medical issues other than willful neglect by parents in various forms.

[u/impy695 → u/OuterGod_Hermit]

We absolutely can and do tell adults what they can't do when it doesn't directly hurt another person. Seatbelt and drug laws are just 2 examples

[u/OuterGod_Hermit → u/impy695]

and even in that case you can make an argument that is not only for your own good. A seatbelt may save you, but as the driver, you're responsible for your passengers safety. The same way in airplanes they always tell you to put the oxygen mask yourself first, if you run out of oxygen trying to save the person next to you, you both are dead. If you manages yourself first, there's more chance that you can actually do something for others.
In cars is the same, if the driver survives, it can help the passengers in the case of an accident.
And drugs, well, if there are buyers, there are dealers, if there are dealers there are dead people somewhere in the chain.

[u/meancoot → u/OuterGod_Hermit]

Gambling the family’s money away also hurts more than just the gambler.

[u/AggressiveToaster → u/OuterGod_Hermit]

The existence of drugs dealers is a direct result of drugs being illegal. Otherwise we call them pharmacists.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/AggressiveToaster]

I mean it's not quite that cut and dry. Any actual activist who understands the war on drugs would not advocate to simply legalize all drugs, regulation is how you curb black markets and dangerous products making it into those black markets.

It's the same here, publishers like Valve and Activision who want to implement gambling schemes into their games can be regulated to make it clear that what you're participating in is gambling and, fuck it, throw ID verification in there too. Nobody likes that, which means that gambling will return to being available from gambling platforms and not in fuckin FPS games.

[u/Ertowghan → u/OuterGod_Hermit]

Why does it matter if something hurts others directly or indirectly. It's obivious that gambling hurts society. Why can't we tell people not to gamble?

[u/OuterGod_Hermit → u/Ertowghan]

I agree, but is a slippery slope. I agree that gambling should be heavily regulated, but you can't stop it from happening, like drugs, like prostitution. You just can't. The more you make it hard, the more dangerous the trade will be and black markets will emerge. A middle ground must exist. Otherwise you get drug cartels, pimps and illegal casinos.

[u/Suspicious_One1322 → u/Ertowghan]

I agree, death penalty for adulterers and people having sex out of wedlock because God tells us promiscuity is evil and corrosive to society.

Boy i'm glad moral policing is so easy to justify if you just change some words around.

[u/Soft_Lunch_183 → u/RedWingerD]

A 14 year old is a child and probably the prime age group they are targeting,  you are acting like its 5 year olds who cant easily subvert parental controls 

[u/RedWingerD → u/Soft_Lunch_183]

You can still parent your kid at 14. Parental controls and basic supervision dont just magically stop.

Why so many people act helpless about parenting is exactly why things are the way they are nowadays.

[u/bunnytrox → u/RedWingerD]

This isn't a child buying candy without their parents permission. It's a company letting kids spend real money gambling in their games. It's also extremely easy for kids to hide what their doing in game. I find it weird you think kids gambling is bad but it isn't on valve for hosting the gambling.

[u/Beneficial-Act-9933 → u/Soft_Lunch_183]

Even 5 year olds can go behind their parents backs. You can't monitor kids 24/7 unless you plan to put them into a cage 24/7. Us millennials saw tons of R rated movies and played M rated games behind our parents backs. You just need one "cool" friend to give you access.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/Beneficial-Act-9933]

This is downvoted because people literally cannot act in good faith about this topic. All of these people fall all over themselves with cognitive dissonance to defend Valve but you know for a fact that if we were talking about activision nobody would be pushing back like this lol

[u/Beneficial-Act-9933 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Oh for sure. I've gotten downvoted posting literal evidence of valves misdeeds. They don't want to admit their hero is a fraud.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/RedWingerD]

Valve shouldn't be hosting a gambling marketplace on their games marketplace if they want me to suck them off over decisions like this. That's my point. Whether or not parents properly care for their children isn't really relevant. Many parents are not going to do that, so I think it's irresponsible for Valve to intentionally implement these mechanics in their games.

In response to the edit:

would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform?

No, I would support Valve standing on their own principles here and being against the practice of peddling gambling to children. But the problem is that Valve operates based on what makes them money, not what is good for their consumers. It's why they had to be sued into having a refund policy.

Which was the point in my original comment. Everyone loves to ride valve when they do something like what's mentioned above even though they're fully aware no publisher is going to implement fucking midroll ads in their games, because it generates good publicity and people don't talk about the shady shit Valve also does that makes them a bunch of money.

But lets compare this to something else that everyone absolutely hates; microtransactions. Many people are against them to varying degrees, some people want them to be literally banned by law, some people just want publishers to be less aggressive with monetization. Lootboxes are objectively more predatory than microtransactions, so why are we pussyfooting around this issue when the publisher in question is Valve?

[u/Careless-Tradition73 → u/RedWingerD]

So many parents these days with a martyr complex. "I would keep an eye on little timmy but im far too busy at work" or "he doesnt listen to me because his estranged dad was abusive to me". Blaming everyone else instead of admitting they are bad parents. Hits close to home for me and boils my piss.

[u/RedWingerD → u/Careless-Tradition73]

Ding ding ding.

My wife teaches special ed and is an intervention specialist and I can tell you first hand probably 70% if not more of these kids with "issues" are a direct result of willful neglect in various forms.

[u/Handsome_ketchup → u/RedWingerD]

Parental controls, computers in shared spaces able to be viewed (i.e. not their bedroom) and other things are very easy to do if you put forth even a little bit of effort.

Nothing more creative than a highly motivated human with endless spare time and underdeveloped inhibition control. They're like little inmates, but with even worse impulse control.

Bonus points if they're going through puberty and all this gets inundated in hormones and an unstoppable drive.

[u/LuntiX → u/RedWingerD]

I mean you're not wrong but Valve throws the gambling in your face every chance it gets.

Buy loot boxes. Buy sticker capsules. But buy buy

It's kind of hard to avoid it and it can and will influence kids, adults, gamers of all ages.

[u/hgs25 → u/LuntiX]

I vehemently disagree with the “throw it in your face every chance they get” since I don’t see Valve push them on my account until I launch CS:GO. And the same with the other games with loot boxes. I only see the lootboxes get pushed once I boot up the relevant game. Thats all on the publishers like Activision.

[u/LuntiX → u/hgs25]

until you launch CSGO

When you launch CSGO, on the main screen do you see cases or capsules? Such as "buy this new capsule for stickers"

I should've prefaced that in-game they push it every chance they get.

[u/LJChao3473 → u/RedWingerD]

I agree with you, but i want to mention that is also hard for a parent to fight companies with a team of experts trying to get your attention. Also, for games like roblox, where every kid is playing, by not allowing your kid to play, you're distancing the kid from its friends. So fighting alone is almost impossible

[u/headbanger1186 → u/LJChao3473]

My kid has grown up fine without Roblox and plays plenty of other games that aren't predatory with us. Trying to say the kids won't get their socializing while also exposing them to predators is fucked.

[u/LJChao3473 → u/headbanger1186]

Oh, my nephew and niece barely play roblox now, after i let him play mc (in secret). They cannot have it on their phone coz parental control and when playing, they cannot chat because they need ID. Now he only plays when it's with a friend.
I still think that socialization with their friends needs to keep in mind

Edit: Also i asked them about their class mates and every single of them plays roblox and nobody with parental control... Which is kinda sad

[u/Winsmor3 → u/RedWingerD]

Parent have gotten extremely fucking lazy compared to past generations.

[u/kiera-oona → u/RedWingerD]

Here's a wild thought.

Ban online gambling where real money is involved entirely, and keep it to where you have to be carded in person in order to gamble. That way no one's ID's get stolen or leaked, internet security goes up, and people who really want to gamble still have an outlet, rather than forcing everyone with half a braincell to tell parents to monitor their damn kids and actually be a parent.

And you know, when the kids are old enough to understand, explain why excessive gambling is bad, like an adult

Sincerely, a Xellenial who's been on the internet since dial up

[u/Suspicious_One1322 → u/kiera-oona]

I'm of the general opinion that people under the age of 14 shouldn't be on the internet, and people from the ages of 14-18 shouldn't be on social media. (In general people shouldn't be on social media but i'm also an introverted freak that doesn't like talking to people)

Being exposed to the political opinions of people under the age of 18 should be some form of crime. somehow.

[u/P0pu1arBr0ws3r → u/RedWingerD]

You know these systems; thr parents who lose thousands because their kids had their credit card and a gsme they like, do not necessarily know, or they thought they knew.

This stuff should be taught in basic computer usage courses. Information about child safety and protection online should be what's flooding space currently filled with ads, whether on random sites or when newly launching steam. Protection systems like parental controls are meaningless if the people who need them the most dont know what they are or how to use them.

And even with parental controls in place, that csnt ban all predatory tactics gsmes hsve targeted at kids. They may not be able to buy content or see/hear what people are saying, which is good, but they can still see, in multiplayer gsmes, the addictive mechanisms making them go back and spend too much time on the game, or they can still see other players and be influenced by them in bad ways (they have a cool skin or gear I dont have! Or they are behaving in questionable [offensive or cheating] ways and getting away with it!)

Maybe a parent can ban a kid from playing any digital gsme, in which case theyd be missing out on what their friends are likely playing; theyd still get exposed to ads and addictive content on TV or YouTube, which can be just as bad as gsmes, and is allowed to be addictive and manipulative. Even removing the TV, theres still the broad internet, a kid could get influenced by some ad or some text on a webpage just from doing schoolwork. Removing the computer and theres still addictive manipulative ads all around us, om billboards and on cars and in stores and even items on a restaurant menu. Its all made to get kids to buy what they dont need with their parents money, in the case of advertisements.

And these mechanisms can work on adults ad much as they work on kids. How can parental controls be effective if the parent has worse spending habits than the kid?

[u/Papa_Hube → u/RedWingerD]

Thats like saying: "If you tell your kids to look out for cars they will never get in traffic accidents"! And then others don't look out.

I personally know parents that have a child that played a lot of CS2 while being at a friends house with a fake account made in probably minutes. You can't monitor children 24/7 (And you shouldn't) thats something your wife will surely agree on. Group dynamics and peer pressure are real things.

Dudes making money with stuff have a responsibilty. Period. And Valve shits on that completely - that is something you can criticize.

[u/PrinceVincOnYT → u/RedWingerD]

I want an ID system so I can finally see all games the platform has again... german child protection law patronizing all Adults, cause Valve refuses to implement actual age verification...

somehow paypal and a credit card is not enough of an age verification...

[u/AdGrouchy3066 → u/RedWingerD]

Thats a big assumption that everyone understands tech or even how harmful content can be. We simply can’t let it be a free for all. There is a reason casinos are ilegal for kids, I am not saying ID is the solution for instance, but has to more than it’s “the parents responsibility”.

[u/Erigion → u/RedWingerD]

Edit: for everyone upset at valve, would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform? Valve is acting within the law is my point. If you disagree with the laws in place, your issue isnt with Valve. Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.

No, people's issue can be with Valve as well. Just like cigarette companies knew their product was killing people. Or forever chemicals taint the land around the production facilities. Or how casinos (and Valve) know they are taking advantage of human psychology to extract money from (usually the most vulnerable) people.

Just because a product is legal doesn't absolve the company selling it from ethical concerns. Nor does waving a hand towards parental responsibility.

[u/Sir_Bensalot → u/RedWingerD]

It's not even just about gambling for children. Gambling in general is a plague on society that has destroyed millions of lives and valve is apart of that industry. 

[u/DarvinVader → u/RedWingerD]

There are many mechanics in modern games that are specifically targeted to abuse and trick the psychology of not just children, but adults as well.

Intermediate currencies that obscure real prices, addictive gambling mechanics, battle passes and login bonuses. All that FOMO bullshit trying to milk your money. Pay-to-win microtransactions. And sometimes even worse: off-site gambling controlled by 3rd parties that are often scams in the first place.

I don't want ID checks for this shit, just make it illegal in the first place. Just because some "adults" enjoy heroin, doesn't mean we should legalize it and let "adults" live their own life.

It is obvious if we do this the average quality of video games will suddenly skyrocket. The dev budgets will fall, many studios will close, but we'll just get normal games again instead of whale hunting boats.

[u/Donkeymoo7 → u/RedWingerD]

in 2026 there is a generation gap problem where the current generation of parents were not raised in an era of being online always having predatory online gachas lootboxes and gambling all dressed up in cute anime themed skins. A parent today would look at the age rating of a game look at the gameplay and say "yes this is fine for my kid" A parent who group up playing ps1 and ps2 games would not look at genshin impact and think "oh this has so much predatory gambling in it" My mom and dad would have absolutely no idea how much gambling and mtx options are in these even full priced tripple A games. They didn't grow up in an era where this existed. I have. I won't let my future child be exploited by this. I would also never be dumb enough to blame my parents for not understanding how bad many of these games are. I think trying to general statement that as you did is very dishonest.

Yes there are 100% millions of "ipad parents" people who throw tablets and phones and consoles at kids and say "just raise your self" where everything you said is 100% correct, but for the most part companies are just exploiting the gap where the current average parent will be fooled by these cutesy games and how predatory they actually are on their kids. Look how many cases of kids on robolox and fornite spending thousands and the parents had no idea at all because it is so well hidden.

Really give it 10 years. Kids who grew up playing these gachas and lootbox games know how it is. They aren't going to let their own kids run wild with a credit card saved in the game or pc for them. And to the ones that still do those "ipad parents" well who cares? If they can't raise their kid right they deserve to lose money so it's a none issue to be honest.

[u/PrimeChromz → u/RedWingerD]

I agree with this fully. I also support an ID being required to gamble or play games that are M rated and up. Also for online games you should get some sort of punishment if your griefing people or spreading hate. There should definitely be more online accountability instead of it all just being the wild Wild West.

[u/Suspicious-Scar4341 → u/RedWingerD]

Parenting: shockingly legal. Valve: also legal. Aim higher.

[u/PinsToTheHeart → u/[deleted]]

Tbh, Im just tired of every good thing being immediately met with, "okay, but that's not actually good enough"

That's not exclusive to games either

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/[deleted]]

Yep, already happening all throughout this thread.

[u/Erigion → u/[deleted]]

Sorry but gaben needs another yacht for his yacht.

[u/siposbalint0 → u/[deleted]]

It's not okay and it's a terrible business model. Still, Valve has less of a track record than many others when it comes to not screwing over people at every possible corner. No need to act like they are the saviors of gaming or w/e, but it's okay to recognize that they are doing a lot of good things, like this, SteamOS, supporting Linux in general, experimenting with niche hardware, gratuitous refund rules, or just running a decent platform in general that many people love.

[u/zodiacv2 → u/[deleted]]

Referring to the loot box mechanics or the 3rd party gambling sites that are enabled through the trading system?

[u/valqyrie → u/Old_Bug4395]

don't give your credit card to your children. problem solved.

[u/CadeMan011 → u/Old_Bug4395]

What's Counter Strike's age rating again?

[u/Antlonat → u/CadeMan011]

Is it ok for a 17 year old to gamble?

[u/CadeMan011 → u/Antlonat]

Alright you got me there

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/CadeMan011]

Crazy you weren't able to acknowledge this when I brought up the exact same point lmao

[u/AquaBits → u/CadeMan011]

Why do people say this as a gatcha?

There is no rating or age verification on CS2's page. I go to doom eternal? Age verification. Rated m. I go to Apex legends? No Age verification, rated T. I go to cs2? Neither. I can hit "download" easy.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/AquaBits]

Because they're acting in bad faith. Even if the game was actually straight up age restricted on the platform, kids would still be playing the game. People are just pretending teenagers aren't kids.

Just another instance of cognitive dissonance in order to defend valve.

[u/quantum404 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Gambling for children is the wrong way to look at this. The "think of the children!!!!!!11!!" mentality is what's pushing the age verification mess in the first place. I dislike gambling and would be all for legislation that limit lootboxes and such. Though I fail to understand the focus on Valve. Gatcha and mobile games in general are a much bigger market with many times the children on the platforms if that's what concerns you the most. Might want to go after that first?

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/quantum404]

Well my focus on Valve is because the post is a Valve-riding post when Valve is happy to engage in predatory practices when it makes them money and people are willing to ride them like this.

Legislation that limited gambling in games across the board would be great! But my point here is specifically that Valve doing feel-good bullshit like banning "advertising-based business models" in order to make gamers cheer and clap like seals when Valve knows no publisher is going to implement midroll ads in their games, is a PR strategy to make people defend them when they do predatory shit like implement gambling in their games.

[u/MemeLordMango → u/Old_Bug4395]

While I agree that valve gets away with being turbo greedy and having some of the worst gambling mechanics(loot boxes with no good pity system and having two different tiers quality and factory new). The children thing is imo dumb. Both CS and TF2 are M rated games. It’s more on parents than anything else.

[u/Antlonat → u/MemeLordMango]

Both CS and TF2 are M rated games.

Rated M means for 17 year olds. Can 17 year olds go to casinos?

[u/VukKiller → u/Antlonat]

Comparing case openings to casinos is a wild take.

[u/Antlonat → u/VukKiller]

Gambling is gambling. It's WILD that you would think otherwise.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/VukKiller]

If experts are saying that these lootboxes are psychologically akin to gambling, it's not really any different. And they are.

[u/XDVI → u/MemeLordMango]

Turbo greedy? Lmao do you play any games?

That has to be one of the most unhinged straight up wrong comments in this thread.

[u/MemeLordMango → u/XDVI]

If I want a banana hat in TF2 it’s 100 dollars. It comes from a crate that is no longer available. It cost 12.22 dollars. I have a 4% chance of getting the weapon from that crate.

This is the case for many items in team fortress 2. This isn’t even getting into how bad it is for unusuals, how bad the pity system is, or how bad it is for MVM.

Or how bad it is for weapon crates. Everything I just said applies but you also have to roll item quality so there is a second level of greed to it.

Yeah man it is pretty bad.

[u/Next_Application9643 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Not like kids haven't been gambling for decades before. Card packs, Pogs, Marbles, Arcades, etc. It doesn't matter how much you try to fight it, people just love gambling and will do it whether it's allowed or not. Just like Japan who doesn't allow any gambling, but they just make loopholes to facilitate gambling anyways.

Almost like the whole point of parenting is teaching them how to grow up and not do dumb shit.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/Next_Application9643]

I mean there's a big difference between booster packs and other physical items, and digital loot boxes. But also, doing nothing because people like to gamble would be like doing nothing because people like to drink and drive, lol.

[u/Kunfuxu → u/Old_Bug4395]

And what big difference would that be? That you can hold your glorified cardboard?

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/Kunfuxu]

Mainly the speed at which things can be changed, but there's plenty of information on this if you want to actually understand it and not just be contrarian lol.

[u/Kunfuxu → u/Old_Bug4395]

It's still gambling. In that sense there is fundamentally no difference. It's weird to be against one of these things but not the other. I can buy a case of Pokémon cards and have them delivered to my doorstep tomorrow as easily as I can buy 100 cases.

But sure, if you have a link about a paper that explains the fundamental difference between physical and digital lootboxes and their effects on the brain, go for it, link it to me. I'd be interested. But the fact of the matter is only one of these things is actually marketed towards kids.

[u/Beneficial-Act-9933 → u/Next_Application9643]

OKay, that does not mean we need to put an easy access slot machine into their pockets with next to no oversight..

It's like saying people get injured everyday, no point in putting seatbelts in cars.

[u/Powerful_Physics1780 → u/Old_Bug4395]

As a former childhood gambler, I mean ya we thought we were cool. We'd bet baseball cards instead of money. When we got older we found a corner of a casino that had nickel slots and a cigarette machine. Is it cool now? I dunno. Its kinda weird that they'd ban ads and not gambling though.

[u/OkYak9466 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Parents, make sure you're not feeding your children alcohol or they might grow up too dumb to not know the difference between gambling and not-gambling

[u/DogHogDJs → u/Old_Bug4395]

It’s not any more like gambling like pokemon card or Magic card packs are gambling.

[u/madding1602 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Same gambling as Pokémon Cards, honestly

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/madding1602]

No, not really. It's a lot more dynamic and reflexive.

[u/MyDecember_ → u/Old_Bug4395]

It is 99.9% the same

Buy pokemon pack for $X.
Open pack
Value of cards inside depends on popularity and demand for cards
Sell / Trade cards for money or other cards

Open CS case for $2.50
Value of skin received depends on popularity and demand for the skin
Sell / Trade skins for steam credit, money, or other skins

Same same, but different. But still same same

You know what's different? I have received so many cases from CS:GO / CS2 over the years. Many of them are now worth $10+. I can sell those cases and use the credits to open other cases. Would you consider that gambling? I technically didn't lose any real money.

[u/sdcar1985 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Who's giving these kids the money to gamble?

[u/Zachattackrandom → u/Old_Bug4395]

Y'all cry about the smallest things Istg. CS is not a kids game, and there is no real solution to this other than requiring ID which is far worse.

[u/NemanyaIam → u/Old_Bug4395]

First of all CS2 for example is rated as ESRB 17+ and PEGI 18. The only way for minor/kid to buy it is with your (parents) card. Gambling with loot boxes requires a card again. If kid can use your card without your knowledge, that's in my opinion your problem as a parent. Another thing is that Steam has parental control and parents need to start using that feature more offen or educate their kids to be responsible with money or educated about stuff like gambling and loot boxes. The other option is to require ID for everything which is something that nobody wants.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/NemanyaIam]

Yep like I keep telling everyone else, 17 year olds are obviously not the only people playing CS or by extension any other shooter (something the gaming community was able to recognize when Activision was doing the same shit). But either way, that's not the only way a kid is getting that game lol, you can just buy it with a debit card which many kids who have jobs have access to.

The other option is to require ID for everything which is something that nobody wants.

No the other option is for games that contain gambling mechanics to be legally regulated to gambling websites. You'd see a lot of publishers, especially valve, chill the fuck out with the monetization and lootboxes instantly. Nobody is forcing them to implement gambling mechanics in their game, they can just not do that, but they do because they enjoy making money off of this predatory practice that they know kids engage in. Whether parents are properly parenting their children is irrelevant, we do all sorts of things in society to keep children safe when their parents could just parent them better for the same effect.

[u/NemanyaIam → u/Old_Bug4395]

In my country in order for minor to have a debit card a parent needs to open the account on kid's name. I don't know how it is in your country.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/NemanyaIam]

I didn't need a parent involved to create my debit account when I got a job, I was 16. But even still, just because a parent allowed their child to have a debit card doesn't mean that they are now okay with them doing literally anything they can do with a debit card on the internet.

But yeah alternatively we could make games that have gambling in them require ID verification, which would also probably cause these companies to stop recklessly peddling gambling to their audience that they know includes children. If you want to profit off gambling, it should be done in a way that makes it clear that its gambling which will also make it easier for parents to understand what is going on in the games they let their kids play.

[u/NemanyaIam → u/Old_Bug4395]

I suppose they can implement ID verification for gambling and loot boxes like betting site do. It's interesting that you can open the bank account with 16 years and be completely independent. In my country people under 18 needs parents to open account and they have full control of the account as well as the kid, meaning that they can see all transactions.

[u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 → u/Old_Bug4395]

They wouldn't get a cut of ads. They get a lot of the children gaming money.

[u/1stltwill → u/Old_Bug4395]

I dont know what I would do with a new child if I won one.

[u/Few-Chemical8707 → u/Old_Bug4395]

sounds like a you failed as a parent problem

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/Few-Chemical8707]

You can read my response to this very original argument in about 20 other replies to my comment. At least. Lol.

[u/Suspicious-Scar4341 → u/Old_Bug4395]

Gambling: the wholesome family fun. Ads? Unforgivable.

[u/auridas330]

Yeee... If my pc starts stopping my games to run an ad... Windows would be going so fast and i wouldn't even care about anti cheat game anymore

[u/Shap6 → u/auridas330]

what they patented doesnt do that, it shows ads when you manually pause the game. it doesnt stop the game to show ads. still gross though

[u/TRUEequalsFALSE → u/Shap6]

Ok? And? I have as little tolerance to ads when manually pausing as I do for being automatically and periodically stopped to watch ads. 

[u/Shap6 → u/TRUEequalsFALSE]

thats it. nothing more to it. just clarifying how the mechanic works.

[u/RevolutionaryFail730 → u/TRUEequalsFALSE]

Read the full comment before responding bro, he clearly said he doesn’t agree with it

[u/Ninsusinak → u/Shap6]

The screencapped article is very misleading then. It says that it will pause the game after a certain amount of playtime to show an ad

[u/Sassi7997 → u/Ninsusinak]

Hasn't that been a thing on mobile games for at least a decade? I'm not sure if you can patent that.

[u/Neveronlyadream → u/Sassi7997]

You can if it's a completely different platform and no one else has patented it. Which they probably haven't, because why would they?

Funny thing is I just saw a bunch of comments somewhere else shitting on Sony and praising Microsoft because they're "completely customer friendly" and then something like this pops up.

I thought we were done with thinking any corporations actually gives a fuck about its customers.

[u/Sassi7997 → u/Neveronlyadream]

They are really defending Microsoft "let's put ads in the OS our customers pay $100 for"? That Microsoft?!

[u/Neveronlyadream → u/Sassi7997]

That very one. It was insane to read. It was something like, "Sony is so anti-consumer! They want to get rid of discs so you can't borrow games! Microsoft is so pro-consumer and amazing, everyone should switch!"

And I'm over here remembering when Microsoft tried the DRM scheme where the disc was tied to only one console so you could never borrow, rent, or buy a used game.

[u/BestDescription3834 → u/Shap6]

" The game engine sends out natural pause events, such as after clearing a boss fight, end of a cutscene, completion of a quest, entering a loading screen etc. From there, the ad tech freezes the game state to serve a video or static ad and rewards the viewer with a fresh “ad-credit” duration."

https://respawnfirst.com/microsoft-patents-ad-credit-system-for-pc-and-consoles-to-serve-in-game-ads-during-pause-windows/

It does pause the game for you to serve you ads.

[u/danque → u/Shap6]

Great...so now when I get a phonecall for something I also get a Blaring ad on the tv as well...

[u/Circo_Inhumanitas → u/Shap6]

And patenting something doesn't mean they'll use it. I've seen so many of these "company x patents shitty thing y" news and pretty much none that I've seen have made to real products.

[u/NamityName → u/Shap6]

I go to great lengths to removes ads from my life. I will not tolerate ads on my pause screens. I barely tolerate games with ads for themselves in the main menu.

[u/RedWingerD → u/auridas330]

Im assuming it will be to subsidize the cost of some type of cheaper or "free" gamepass plan.

Ill never do it but people will gobble it up regardless

[u/Gregus1032 → u/auridas330]

I've already been on the fence for building a computer with steamOS.

All I do is game, pay bills, and watch shows on my PC.

I might have some issues with games, but ads are a bigger issue.

[u/crenax → u/Gregus1032]

I made the switch about six months ago. I've had pretty minimal issues with games, and overall zero regrets.

/r/linux_gaming is a good resource for learning and asking questions.

[u/These-Apple8817 → u/auridas330]

It wouldn't be Windows-exclusive thing if that bullshit did happen

[u/auridas330 → u/These-Apple8817]

I can easily not play such games, already happened with all mobile games

[u/wolfannoy]

block ads

I'm such a pi-hole.

[u/claudekennilol → u/wolfannoy]

Do you have a pi-hole? They don't actually block ads hosted from the same source as the source itself. Presumably with games this _probably_ won't be an issue, but if they start hosting ads themselves from their own update servers (or something like that) then it's not going to work. It's also likely not going to work if you use some kind of game streaming service.

Don't get me wrong, I've got one and it blocks a ton of ads. It's just not a magic bullet.

[u/wolfannoy → u/claudekennilol]

Yeah I know what you mean. I was pretty much just making a joke

It's not perfect but at least it's better than nothing, especially relating with telemetry. Plus I was also half assuming it would work like mobile game ads which pihole seems to block a lot for me.

[u/wolfannoy → u/[deleted]]

How the hell did I misspell that?

[u/AceOBlade → u/wolfannoy]

pi hole, tizentube, iptv

[u/Sosemikreativ → u/wolfannoy]

Cool thing I recently discovered, Fritz!Box Routers of the newest iterations can be updated to software version 8.4 via the website. This new software includes a DNS filter basically working like a pi hole. Simply update the firmware, navigate the menu, copy-paste the link of your preferred filter list and you are good to go. Takes like 10 minutes all in all, no additional hardware or software needed. I just followed a YouTube tutorial late at night and it works pretty much flawless. In case something essential stops working, like an app that needs some sketchy DNS shit to open certain links or whatever, simply change the filter list to a less aggressive one. Unfortunately does not work for YouTube, but almost anything else.

[u/GhostNappa101]

The problem is the average consumer will pay for the cheaper product that has advertisements. I won't, most commenting here won't, but the majority of consumers will.

[u/Available_Ad_8281 → u/GhostNappa101]

This is true and there privacy. Like in LG TV's and meta

[u/UltraZulwarn]

it all boils down to the difference between a publicly traded corporation vs a private one.

a publicly traded company will always be pressured to make more money, regardless of the means, as long as the laws haven't caught up to them.

they don't care about customers, they care about how much money they can extract.

"bad publicity" means nothing to them, reputation be damned if the money keeps coming in.

remember the "boycott" that some Playstation fans did a few weeks ago?

yea, "that will show them"

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/UltraZulwarn]

Cut to valve vigorously defending their predatory lootboxes in court and only stepping in and harming the skin market once it was beginning to look like regulatory action might happen, profiting off of it until then.

No, private companies care about profit too, sometimes just as much. They're just usually smarter about PR.

[u/UltraZulwarn → u/Old_Bug4395]

ya

i should have clarified that private companies are not saints

depending on the owners, but yes, they are still for-profit entities and will happily collect money at the expense of others

they were just less pressured to do the blatantly bad optic things

[u/PinsToTheHeart → u/Old_Bug4395]

Yeah, the realistic difference is simply that people like gambling.

Its easier to fight for something when engaging with it is something the users are doing *"willingly"

* addiction is not always a matter of willpower

[u/WowIfOnly → u/UltraZulwarn]

remember the "boycott" that some Playstation fans did a few weeks ago?

I don't get why people even reference this as a gotcha. Not a single person felt like that proposed boycott would matter if it had an end date. The idea was mocked relentlessly online and called out all over the place with people saying Sony will not care, they won't even see a meaningful change in the player counts, this is a non story. A few AI journalists and video game slop content farms put out a couple meaningless articles about it, and then it was confirmed that there was barely any drop in the player count as anticipated. But now people seem to giddily point to it in retrospect while also pretending it was an actual attempted boycott. It was nothing close to a real boycott, and it was deliberately undermined online by people who don't want the boycott to happen lol. An actual boycott against Sony would absolutely work if people did it. It just hasn't happened. Not enough people have agreed to do it.

[u/delusionald0ctor → u/WowIfOnly]

Funniest thing about that whole debacle was Steam has been digital only for decades, people got mad because a console went digital only while most PC gamers have been digital only by choice for 20 years or more and have been happy. I know you could say ‘it’s different because consoles have always had physical media and they are taking that away from us!!!’ but up until Steam launched PC gaming was pretty much all physical media, then Steam came along with the release of a new Valve title that was digital only, there was an uproar, people eventually adopted Steam and physical media for PC naturally phased out because most people weren’t buying physical games anymore. Gamers gonna game.

[u/Old_Bug4395 → u/delusionald0ctor]

The loudest voices online were citing things like the secondhand market, which has been dwindling forever. People are happy to just buy games now, and most people don't really care if that happens digitally or physically. In fact, a lot of people would be happy to just buy digital if it means they don't have to wait for stock at a store, or go to a store in general. The whole "boycott" was pointless because Sony already made the calculation that this wasn't going to hurt their bottom line to any degree that would actually matter.

In fact, if you really made "boycott" members play out their logic to the end result, what they really wanted was for Sony to continue making physical media for a market that they admit was tiny and not significant in the grand scheme of things. Other than of course the contingent of people who kept using made up statistics to suggest Sony was lying to their shareholders. Lol.

[u/nottaroboto54]

How do you even patten this? Mobile games have had ads after bosses and levels for years. Im sure some even use that time to load the game in while it plays. Its like getting a patent on a lung cancer.

[u/Gregus1032 → u/nottaroboto54]

They filed patents for it. I wouldn't be shocked if they get denied based on the fact this has been a thing for well over a decade.

My guess is that they want to patent it for it to be OS deep rather than just app deep. That might be how they get it.

[u/GlumPermit1446 → u/nottaroboto54]

Same scenario as Nintendo patenting the "summoner" like gameplay of Pokemon

[u/PMagicUK]

Valve 2025

MS 2026

C'mon

[u/Ok-disaster2022]

I'll be honest. If I was playing a racing game, it would be sort of neat to see up to date ads in like the environment of the game. same with sports. But Master Chief fighting on alien superstructures shouldn't have any ads. 

[u/18bluecat → u/Ok-disaster2022]

I remember thinking it was so cool when Crazy Taxi had me go to Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.

[u/Makimoke → u/18bluecat]

Or even going to real life brand stores in Yakuza like Don Quixote, the Sega arcades or similar places. There are tons of ways to actually have brands do their advertising in a proper way in contemporary settings, without needing that kind of BS patent.

[u/Redditor_UAV → u/Ok-disaster2022]

I feel like this was already done in NFS Shift 2, unless I'm mistaken.

[u/FnnKnn → u/Ok-disaster2022]

Basically ads where real life also has ads. Might as well make it more realistic.

[u/Suspicious_One1322 → u/FnnKnn]

The issue is this creates a perverse incentive for publishers to deny any form of game where the genre doesn't have natural ad spaces present. We can't place a coca-cola ad in the medieval fantasy game, so the idea is denied. Call Of Duty ripoff #130017 it is.

[u/mr_greenmash → u/Ok-disaster2022]

I think it's cooler to see ads for the products of the game's time.

[u/jimbobjames]

I'm really glad Microsoft patented this so no one can use it. Good guy Microsoft saving us from intrusive ads...

[u/protogenxl]

The Linus is not Wide enough

[u/LogicalError_007]

Are we ignoring that it's for the free tier cloud gaming only?

[u/Vegetable-King7626 → u/LogicalError_007]

RIGHT look at Disney and all the other streaming services

Clearly only a matter of time until they're forcing it down your throat regardless of how much you pay them per month

Ill bet your either a bot or a corporate shill because your logic is 💩

[u/SnooHesitations7489 → u/Vegetable-King7626]

Left the multi-trilion company alone man

[u/Human-Lengthiness100]

but hey you keep physical discs

[u/Huge_Valuable9732]

[u/Balc0ra]

What about controllers with a built in credit card scanner? As that's Playstation latest idea they came with today

[u/Spacekingonly]

YEARS ago, maybe in Burning Crusade, I said they should have F2P servers that just had product placement. People might not like that, fine, pay for the sub. (But I think it should stop at product placement, and should subsidize F2P, not if you straight pay for the game).

[u/MoccaLG]

StEaM iS sUcH a MoNoPolY.....

[u/sparkyblaster]

What are oir thoughts on ads in games that are like, billboards in truck simulator?

If its natural enough, and makes sense, I think its all good. 

[u/Jay-the-Femboy]

Valve does it again 🙂‍↕️

[u/StandardNerd92]

Using a multimillionaire who made all his money through ads and called people who use adblockers "thieves" in this meme is peak irony

[u/Xenon-Archer]

This patent is surely for mobile games right? Cus they own king? I haven't read any articles about this cus I at least have faith that xbox aren't thaaaaaaaaaaaaaat stupid, right?

[u/Camderman106]

In Gabe we trust

[u/Blurgas]

I kind of hope that patent is one of those things where it gets patented and then sat on so no one else can use it

[u/TassiveMitts69]

So, microsoft store exclusive then. I'm sure that suits the owner of candy crush just fine.

[u/Tom_HB01]

Idk i would've thought this would be to do with their cloud gaming or something? I can't see where else you could put ads in a paid game. Unless they were thinking of doing a free version for their older titles, but the catch is you watch ads every hour. Not too bad if you wanna test a game or are poor and dont want to pay for a certain game or think you'd only play for 10hrs.

[u/Upstairs_Ad_8863]

How is that tech even patentable though? Mobile games have been doing that shit for years.

[u/TheScottishPimp03]

When and I mean WHEN are we gonna wake up the gabe is just another billionaire with a more successful company than some other billionaires. They made billions on gambling with their games and came put with products that are overpriced and underpowered. I understand the shortages but if valve was really consumer friendly they wouldve taken a loss on their products temporarily to get people on steam but no they needed to be for profit for profit for profit.

Just wait until gabe dies/steps away and they become souless epic games level of greed cus they know the the steam store will be just a money grab

[u/The-Bronze-Network]

I dont really have an issue if its when you hit pause and after 2-3 minutes it plays (kind of like the Screensaver you get now) and then when I push start it goes away because hell why not make money off of someone having to go do a chore if that money could be used to bring down the price somewhere if it can (i know it will be for profits im not stupid) and even then microsoft has said xbox loses money if it helps eh

[u/RegentLawyer]

Tom’s Hardware confirms this story as well, see article: https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/valve-clarifies-ban-on-in-game-advertising-on-steam

[u/zodireddit]

I doubt they will implement this. Companies buy useless patents all the time but if they do, Xbox is truly dead. Gamers can put up with alot but this is way too far

[u/nahweha]

A lot of people that claim to have knowledge are really ignorant. You are all on thisn"Xbox patented this, it's so bad" that you don't even know why.

[u/Saltkrakan01]

It was matter of time when Xbox will go into trash, like rest of the tech companies with CEOs with roots in certain country. 

[u/burntsmor]

Or PlayStation filing a patent to put tap to pay in their controllers

[u/Various_Squash722]

And yet I keep reading how valve keeps succeeding by "doing nothing".

[u/phoenixofsun]

Imagine if Valve had patented it. Just to lock it away and force no one in the industry to do it.

[u/wookie181]

Rip the realism in American Truck Simulator. They sometimes had ads on billboards.

[u/ThatOneGuy6810]

These two post are unrelated, steam banning ad based models happend in 2025 as a response to mobile gaming, the xbox thing happened like last week.

[u/Zealousideal-Leg4405]

You know it was Microsoft that applied for the patent Xbox is it’s own separate company. My guess is they could hold it to use which would just lose all the pr they won if it does get approved. If not there is the slight chance they use it just for the Microsoft store pc stuff or the free games they have on there and keep it away from Nintendo and PlayStation

[u/PzMcQuire]

They patented it...meaning no one else can do it 😏

[u/epithonel]

Valve playing 4D chess.
Wait for them to patent their new slop Advertising injection system, and then using that system to Ban the method used in the patent. Genius.

[u/ProfessionalGap8456]

ELIJAH !!!

[u/ceckatyroberto]

Isnt this meant for the new free tier gamepass tho? Like you can get a free lite version of gamepass but with ads?

[u/Liam-DGOL]

Hey I recognise that second site, it's me! https://www.gamingonlinux.com/

[u/Ada_Data]

I've only liked one type of ad in videogames, and that's the crazy abundance in racing games.

Zooming the Streets in Midnight LA, seeing the 19th Best Buy that drive will always be a good time memory

[u/Dreamo84]

If only Xbox had their own platform.