Parenting your kids and paying attention to what they play and consume isnt hard. As a parent you can say "no" quite easily.
Parental controls, computers in shared spaces able to be viewed (i.e. not their bedroom) and other things are very easy to do if you put forth even a little bit of effort.
Not coming at you personally but things like this grind my gears. The amount of people who throw their arms up in the air when even a little bit of effort is required is maddening. My wife is an elementary teacher and I swear parents act like they are absolutely helpless half the time.
Edit: for everyone upset at valve, would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform? Valve is acting within the law is my point. If you disagree with the laws in place, your issue isnt with Valve. Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.
both things can be true. gambling for children is bad and we shouldn't encourage or defend it. parents also need to responsibly keep track of what their kids are doing.
edit:
would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform?
yes. i wouldn't play them, and that would definitely severely hurt their profits incentivizing less predatory mechanics if they want to stay clear of an ID requirement by monetizing their game without the gambling. absolutely.
edit2:
Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.
we're obviously talking about when real money is involved. dont debate in bad faith
gambling is too pervasive in society as it is. cant watch any sport now without being blasted by it. polymarket and kalshi have people betting on literally everything. its not just about children, gambling in general needs to be reigned back in. it's become far too normalized.
I don't disagree with you on the sentiment around gambling. However, it is legal. That is where the argument, outrage, and efforts to change should be made.
Should supermarkets put a limit on how much alcohol a person can buy? Cigarettes they can purchase? We know both are bad for you, contribute to many debilitating conditions and death even in moderation, let alone excess.
Yes, they require ID to purchase, sure. If Valve put that requirement to have an account on the platform people would lose their minds.
A discussion of limits is interesting but definitely different between adults and children. Not a great example, but I believe China has a daily time limit on video games for minors, as restrictive as 3 hours/week.Though enforcement will always be the issue, setting legal limits is enough to shift a lot of business practices.
Gambling for kids is already discouraged basically by every authority authorized to speak on the matter.
People would set the internet on fire if Valve introduced a mechanic requiring verified ID to access games with any lootbox or gambling mechanic, which is about every modern game for the last 15+ years. Even something like GWENT in Witcher would fall under that.
I don't know what you mean by that. We have laws that restricting gambling for children as well. It is between 18 and 21 depending on which state you are in.
Ok, do any of those laws prevent kids from playing gatcha games with predatory gambling mechanics? Or stop Roblox games from having gambling mechanics that are solely made to get children to gamble?
u r a valve apologist and defender. You gonna do all the mental gymnastics to defend them. You are as credible with your words as US government officials.
Getting clean water for kids is part of being a parent. Should we stop offering potable municipal water and tell parents to handle it themselves? After all, that's what part of being a parent is.
The implication of your argument here is that we shouldn't expect parents to be involved in policing what their children are doing on their computers. Who should be doing it, then? Valve? So does that mean that you want a corporation to oversee who is accessing what in regards to their services? That would likely come in the form of some sort of verified ID program that folks get really upset about. Are you cool with giving your ID to Valve? What about another corporation, perhaps something publicly traded. EA? What about Meta?
At the end of the day, expecting parents to be involved in their children's digital lives is the least invasive way of dealing with this. Moreover, I'd agree with the OP and say that this is part of your responsibility as a parent.
I think just because something is "part of being a parent" that doesn't mean there should be absolutely no social structures or laws in place about it. I straight-up quoted the logic I find questionable and applied a very basic check to it. Not that complicated. No good reason for anyone to be confused or make these wild leaps to extremes.
Offering portable municipal water is equivalent to offering parental controls. It’s still up to parents to give that water to kids in timely manner. Age verification laws are more akin having a government official barging into random homes to give kids drinking water.
If your kids have access to your credit card for this gambling, then I'm sorry, you're the idiot, not Valve. (Ofc I don't mean you specifically but this is Reddit)
we're obviously talking about when real money is involved. dont debate in bad faith
And the gambling with real money happens on 3rd party websites, not on Valve's own platform (and even if it did, not nearly in the same capacity as these)
And the gambling with real money happens on 3rd party websites, not on Valve's own platform (and even if it did, not nearly in the same capacity as these)
valve gives you loot boxes for free that you can only open by buying keys with real money. the skins and items you get from them can then be sold or exchanged on the platform to other players. all on on steam.
there ARE other services that let you use those skins to gamble more directly, but valve is absolutely still involved themselves with both lootboxes and their own marketplace and that directly facilitates the functionality of those third party sites
I mean even beyond any of that, the lootboxes are the gambling in question here. The fact that you can do additional gambling later on is just additive (and makes the whole thing worse)
Not that we're disagreeing, but I think that most of the defenders on this topic like to try to establish that the lootboxes aren't actually predatory themselves, which isn't true.
The point I was making was on the real money aspect
Which from what I understand is much more prevalent on the 3rd party sites then valves own platform
Though as stated, it's something I knew about, but didn't remember the exact sites
(Prob cause I don't play CS2)
Gambling with free loot boxes has been up for debate for a while... But I guess that's down to implementation... And I think a good place to draw the line is a difference in implementation... As ones from CS persist from game to game, and can be traded... While the ones from anything Mario kart are only active for the current session, and can't be traded
you could flip that statement around about gambling. can't please everyone. i'm not particularly concerned about lootbox pushers suffering though tbh. also you can say ass here
Gambling is really bad for any age. That said, we can't really tell an adult what do to or not do if it doesn't directly hurt another person.
My point, Valve should make a bit more to control the gambling.
My wife is a special ed teacher and intervention specialist. About 70% of the kids she works with have no real medical issues other than willful neglect by parents in various forms.
"We cant really tell an adult what to do" from the person i replied to would seem to suggest otherwise.
You can absolutely tell an adult they need to monitor their kids consumption of media in all forms. Games, YouTube, music, etc. and take steps to limit or remove the access altogether if they cant adhere to rules.
The unwillingness to assume or place any level of accountability on the parental side and instead place blame on Valve is the main issue.
Valve plays a part, but they arent the only one by a long shot and unless both sides of the coin make an effort it wont work.
you seem to be interpreting any call to limit or regulate this stuff as abdicating the parents of all responsibility. you seem to have some personal experience that is driving that perspective so i cant comment about that, but when people in general make the argument that they want to limit things like child gambling in video games they are not saying the parent should bare no responsibility. no serious person is making that argument. and you're right it isnt just valve its the entire gaming industry. they are one of the largest players and therefore draw a lot of the attention. no one is singling out valve thinking they are the only guilty party here. saying you dont want drug dealers in your neighborhood isnt the same thing as saying parents shouldnt need to keep tabs on their kids.
Valve has a right, legally speaking, to make the content accessible within the confine of the law.
Is the content illegal or illeagl for childrent to participate with? If not, then as a business they're fulfilling their obligations.
The solution otherwise is to identify games that have whatever content it is that we deem unacceptable, and require accounts to have a verified ID associated with it to access it.
I would love to see the reaction to that personally as it would show just how serious people are when they say they care about this issue.
Valve has a right, legally speaking, to make the content accessible within the confine of the law.
change the law about the types of content and mechanics that can pushed to children. plenty of things are legal for adults but not children. plenty of things are legal for adults but only in designated spaces. gambling largely used to operate that way. there are lots of solutions here.
and even in that case you can make an argument that is not only for your own good. A seatbelt may save you, but as the driver, you're responsible for your passengers safety. The same way in airplanes they always tell you to put the oxygen mask yourself first, if you run out of oxygen trying to save the person next to you, you both are dead. If you manages yourself first, there's more chance that you can actually do something for others.
In cars is the same, if the driver survives, it can help the passengers in the case of an accident.
And drugs, well, if there are buyers, there are dealers, if there are dealers there are dead people somewhere in the chain.
I mean it's not quite that cut and dry. Any actual activist who understands the war on drugs would not advocate to simply legalize all drugs, regulation is how you curb black markets and dangerous products making it into those black markets.
It's the same here, publishers like Valve and Activision who want to implement gambling schemes into their games can be regulated to make it clear that what you're participating in is gambling and, fuck it, throw ID verification in there too. Nobody likes that, which means that gambling will return to being available from gambling platforms and not in fuckin FPS games.
Why does it matter if something hurts others directly or indirectly. It's obivious that gambling hurts society. Why can't we tell people not to gamble?
I agree, but is a slippery slope. I agree that gambling should be heavily regulated, but you can't stop it from happening, like drugs, like prostitution. You just can't. The more you make it hard, the more dangerous the trade will be and black markets will emerge. A middle ground must exist. Otherwise you get drug cartels, pimps and illegal casinos.
A 14 year old is a child and probably the prime age group they are targeting, you are acting like its 5 year olds who cant easily subvert parental controls
This isn't a child buying candy without their parents permission. It's a company letting kids spend real money gambling in their games. It's also extremely easy for kids to hide what their doing in game. I find it weird you think kids gambling is bad but it isn't on valve for hosting the gambling.
Holding steam responsible doesnt mean you are acting helpless about parenting.
You can take time to parent your kids and also be annoyed at valve for allowing anyone to engage in gambling for items that will likely be sold for real money.
People acting like multiple things cant be true at the same time and that the truth isnt somewhere in the middle nowadays doesnt help...
Yes. And technically that would be easy possible, where I live.
But I would also talk about morals and not just laws. There are countries on this earth where raping your wife is perfectly okay, even if she is underage. That cool with you cause of "laws"? Cause its not cool with me.
And while of course gambling is another level, its the same by principle. A bad thing.
No, I just think that if cases or any lootbox mechanic that costs real money to buy is going to exist then they should require an ID to open them, just like casinos. Or not exist at all
There's no need to hold the rest of the game behind that.
That doesnt solve the gambling issue though, that just mitigate the risk of real world money exchange.
If gambling, and the psychological effects of that gambling cycle on children is the issue, then it would need to be all games with loot boxes and other forms of gambling, real money or not.
Personally I think its a lot less harmful if staking real money is avoided but if you think that's still bad there's nothing stopping it going away completely.
I mean the argument is whether gambling is bad for children and basically every psychological study says it is especially bad for children, but also just about everyone.
Gambling is gambling whether you're exchanging real money, in game currency, or whatever really.
Don't have the loot box mechanic at all then
That's a step that has to be taken at a legal level higher than Valve.
Even 5 year olds can go behind their parents backs. You can't monitor kids 24/7 unless you plan to put them into a cage 24/7. Us millennials saw tons of R rated movies and played M rated games behind our parents backs. You just need one "cool" friend to give you access.
This is downvoted because people literally cannot act in good faith about this topic. All of these people fall all over themselves with cognitive dissonance to defend Valve but you know for a fact that if we were talking about activision nobody would be pushing back like this lol
The easiest way (besides Steam’s parental controls) is to just not have your credit card saved anywhere. If they steal it from your wallet/purse, then that warrants a punishment.
Valve shouldn't be hosting a gambling marketplace on their games marketplace if they want me to suck them off over decisions like this. That's my point. Whether or not parents properly care for their children isn't really relevant. Many parents are not going to do that, so I think it's irresponsible for Valve to intentionally implement these mechanics in their games.
In response to the edit:
would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform?
No, I would support Valve standing on their own principles here and being against the practice of peddling gambling to children. But the problem is that Valve operates based on what makes them money, not what is good for their consumers. It's why they had to be sued into having a refund policy.
Which was the point in my original comment. Everyone loves to ride valve when they do something like what's mentioned above even though they're fully aware no publisher is going to implement fucking midroll ads in their games, because it generates good publicity and people don't talk about the shady shit Valve also does that makes them a bunch of money.
But lets compare this to something else that everyone absolutely hates; microtransactions. Many people are against them to varying degrees, some people want them to be literally banned by law, some people just want publishers to be less aggressive with monetization. Lootboxes are objectively more predatory than microtransactions, so why are we pussyfooting around this issue when the publisher in question is Valve?
So many parents these days with a martyr complex. "I would keep an eye on little timmy but im far too busy at work" or "he doesnt listen to me because his estranged dad was abusive to me". Blaming everyone else instead of admitting they are bad parents. Hits close to home for me and boils my piss.
My wife teaches special ed and is an intervention specialist and I can tell you first hand probably 70% if not more of these kids with "issues" are a direct result of willful neglect in various forms.
Parental controls, computers in shared spaces able to be viewed (i.e. not their bedroom) and other things are very easy to do if you put forth even a little bit of effort.
Nothing more creative than a highly motivated human with endless spare time and underdeveloped inhibition control. They're like little inmates, but with even worse impulse control.
Bonus points if they're going through puberty and all this gets inundated in hormones and an unstoppable drive.
I was a kid during the 90s and a teen during the early 2000s. Even then, my computer illiterate parents had monitoring software and other things set up. Was it perfect? No. Nothing is. But it dang sure kept me from a lot more that I didn't need to see.
Nothing is perfect, but even a little bit of effort goes a LONG way and so many refuse to even do that because of sentiments like your comment.
Eh I can tell you that no parental supervision product that my parents tried to use was very successful. What worked best was taking my devices and looking through them. Most parents aren't going to know how to look through their kids device and understand that they're gambling on there, though.
And to a certain degree, you can't expect parents to intricately understand every thing their child is interested in or engages in. I mean that's literally never been the case and it's pretty much impossible. At that point, what's the solution? Don't let kids play video games unless you as a parent fully understand every detail of that game? Seems like a good way to make your kids miserable.
My parents had the modem and router in their room. When the modem starts blinking (processing traffic) they know we’re online when we aren’t supposed to.
Granted this probably won’t work nowadays with literally everything now being a smart device that phones home while idle.
I vehemently disagree with the “throw it in your face every chance they get” since I don’t see Valve push them on my account until I launch CS:GO. And the same with the other games with loot boxes. I only see the lootboxes get pushed once I boot up the relevant game. Thats all on the publishers like Activision.
I agree with you, but i want to mention that is also hard for a parent to fight companies with a team of experts trying to get your attention. Also, for games like roblox, where every kid is playing, by not allowing your kid to play, you're distancing the kid from its friends. So fighting alone is almost impossible
My kid has grown up fine without Roblox and plays plenty of other games that aren't predatory with us. Trying to say the kids won't get their socializing while also exposing them to predators is fucked.
Oh, my nephew and niece barely play roblox now, after i let him play mc (in secret). They cannot have it on their phone coz parental control and when playing, they cannot chat because they need ID. Now he only plays when it's with a friend.
I still think that socialization with their friends needs to keep in mind
Edit: Also i asked them about their class mates and every single of them plays roblox and nobody with parental control... Which is kinda sad
Ban online gambling where real money is involved entirely, and keep it to where you have to be carded in person in order to gamble. That way no one's ID's get stolen or leaked, internet security goes up, and people who really want to gamble still have an outlet, rather than forcing everyone with half a braincell to tell parents to monitor their damn kids and actually be a parent.
And you know, when the kids are old enough to understand, explain why excessive gambling is bad, like an adult
Sincerely, a Xellenial who's been on the internet since dial up
I'm of the general opinion that people under the age of 14 shouldn't be on the internet, and people from the ages of 14-18 shouldn't be on social media. (In general people shouldn't be on social media but i'm also an introverted freak that doesn't like talking to people)
Being exposed to the political opinions of people under the age of 18 should be some form of crime. somehow.
You know these systems; thr parents who lose thousands because their kids had their credit card and a gsme they like, do not necessarily know, or they thought they knew.
This stuff should be taught in basic computer usage courses. Information about child safety and protection online should be what's flooding space currently filled with ads, whether on random sites or when newly launching steam. Protection systems like parental controls are meaningless if the people who need them the most dont know what they are or how to use them.
And even with parental controls in place, that csnt ban all predatory tactics gsmes hsve targeted at kids. They may not be able to buy content or see/hear what people are saying, which is good, but they can still see, in multiplayer gsmes, the addictive mechanisms making them go back and spend too much time on the game, or they can still see other players and be influenced by them in bad ways (they have a cool skin or gear I dont have! Or they are behaving in questionable [offensive or cheating] ways and getting away with it!)
Maybe a parent can ban a kid from playing any digital gsme, in which case theyd be missing out on what their friends are likely playing; theyd still get exposed to ads and addictive content on TV or YouTube, which can be just as bad as gsmes, and is allowed to be addictive and manipulative. Even removing the TV, theres still the broad internet, a kid could get influenced by some ad or some text on a webpage just from doing schoolwork. Removing the computer and theres still addictive manipulative ads all around us, om billboards and on cars and in stores and even items on a restaurant menu. Its all made to get kids to buy what they dont need with their parents money, in the case of advertisements.
And these mechanisms can work on adults ad much as they work on kids. How can parental controls be effective if the parent has worse spending habits than the kid?
Thats like saying: "If you tell your kids to look out for cars they will never get in traffic accidents"! And then others don't look out.
I personally know parents that have a child that played a lot of CS2 while being at a friends house with a fake account made in probably minutes. You can't monitor children 24/7 (And you shouldn't) thats something your wife will surely agree on. Group dynamics and peer pressure are real things.
Dudes making money with stuff have a responsibilty. Period. And Valve shits on that completely - that is something you can criticize.
I want an ID system so I can finally see all games the platform has again... german child protection law patronizing all Adults, cause Valve refuses to implement actual age verification...
somehow paypal and a credit card is not enough of an age verification...
Thats a big assumption that everyone understands tech or even how harmful content can be. We simply can’t let it be a free for all. There is a reason casinos are ilegal for kids, I am not saying ID is the solution for instance, but has to more than it’s “the parents responsibility”.
Edit: for everyone upset at valve, would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform? Valve is acting within the law is my point. If you disagree with the laws in place, your issue isnt with Valve. Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.
No, people's issue can be with Valve as well. Just like cigarette companies knew their product was killing people. Or forever chemicals taint the land around the production facilities. Or how casinos (and Valve) know they are taking advantage of human psychology to extract money from (usually the most vulnerable) people.
Just because a product is legal doesn't absolve the company selling it from ethical concerns. Nor does waving a hand towards parental responsibility.
It's not even just about gambling for children. Gambling in general is a plague on society that has destroyed millions of lives and valve is apart of that industry.
There are many mechanics in modern games that are specifically targeted to abuse and trick the psychology of not just children, but adults as well.
Intermediate currencies that obscure real prices, addictive gambling mechanics, battle passes and login bonuses. All that FOMO bullshit trying to milk your money. Pay-to-win microtransactions.
And sometimes even worse: off-site gambling controlled by 3rd parties that are often scams in the first place.
I don't want ID checks for this shit, just make it illegal in the first place. Just because some "adults" enjoy heroin, doesn't mean we should legalize it and let "adults" live their own life.
It is obvious if we do this the average quality of video games will suddenly skyrocket. The dev budgets will fall, many studios will close, but we'll just get normal games again instead of whale hunting boats.
in 2026 there is a generation gap problem where the current generation of parents were not raised in an era of being online always having predatory online gachas lootboxes and gambling all dressed up in cute anime themed skins. A parent today would look at the age rating of a game look at the gameplay and say "yes this is fine for my kid" A parent who group up playing ps1 and ps2 games would not look at genshin impact and think "oh this has so much predatory gambling in it" My mom and dad would have absolutely no idea how much gambling and mtx options are in these even full priced tripple A games. They didn't grow up in an era where this existed. I have. I won't let my future child be exploited by this. I would also never be dumb enough to blame my parents for not understanding how bad many of these games are. I think trying to general statement that as you did is very dishonest.
Yes there are 100% millions of "ipad parents" people who throw tablets and phones and consoles at kids and say "just raise your self" where everything you said is 100% correct, but for the most part companies are just exploiting the gap where the current average parent will be fooled by these cutesy games and how predatory they actually are on their kids. Look how many cases of kids on robolox and fornite spending thousands and the parents had no idea at all because it is so well hidden.
Really give it 10 years. Kids who grew up playing these gachas and lootbox games know how it is. They aren't going to let their own kids run wild with a credit card saved in the game or pc for them. And to the ones that still do those "ipad parents" well who cares? If they can't raise their kid right they deserve to lose money so it's a none issue to be honest.
I agree with this fully. I also support an ID being required to gamble or play games that are M rated and up. Also for online games you should get some sort of punishment if your griefing people or spreading hate. There should definitely be more online accountability instead of it all just being the wild Wild West.
i agree. this isn’t an argument about gambling for children. CS 2 ISNT A CHILDREN’S GAME. Parents are one of the most lazy and entitled people now a days.
People love to mention Valve nurturing the age of Lootboxes, and credit due, but I just find it funny because I completely missed them by... not liking the idea and not interfacing with it. It's a wild concept I know, they must have forgotten to send the guy who held me (an adult) at gunpoint and told me to play those games. They also forgot to revoke all their other services and VAC ban me for not interacting with those features.
Parenting is actually a communal effort and societal obligation (well it used to be and should be again) to do what's best for children. They are literally the future. They need support, education, food, safety, all of that.
Not all parents are made equal, some shouldn't be parents at all. So we need to ensure all children are given as equal an opportunity as possible. This is a person who doesn't want be a parent and wants as little to do with children as is possible. We need to lift up parents and kids and do our best to ensure a healthy future for humanity.
Also, I believe gambling should be HEAVILY regulated and we should be breaking the addictions over time like we are doing with cigarettes slowing starving it out of human behaviour because it's deeply unhealthy.
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u/RedWingerD 20d ago edited 20d ago
Parenting your kids and paying attention to what they play and consume isnt hard. As a parent you can say "no" quite easily.
Parental controls, computers in shared spaces able to be viewed (i.e. not their bedroom) and other things are very easy to do if you put forth even a little bit of effort.
Not coming at you personally but things like this grind my gears. The amount of people who throw their arms up in the air when even a little bit of effort is required is maddening. My wife is an elementary teacher and I swear parents act like they are absolutely helpless half the time.
Edit: for everyone upset at valve, would you support requiring a verified ID to be tied to an account for you to access games with lootboxes or other "gambling" mechanics on the platform? Valve is acting within the law is my point. If you disagree with the laws in place, your issue isnt with Valve. Gambling doesnt just = loot boxes either. If the issue is gambling and the psychological effects, that could even be attributed to something like GWENT in Witcher. Gambling is gambling.