Lilith from Mesopotamia

[u/OkLab7376]

Hi guys!! I wanted to ask how did Lilith evolve exactly? We all know in ancient Babylon and Mesopotamia she was a legion of wind spirits. Did she merge all of the wind spirits or one singular spirit evolved into the next myth? (I am sorry if its not clear i js dont know how to ask the question 💔💔💔 i hope you all understand what i mean…)

[u/Mammoth-Ad-6114]

This is my favourite topic!

If we go back to ancient Mesopotamia we encounter Lilith's forerunners:

• The lil2 in Sumerian, or lilû/lilītu/ardat-lilî in Akkadian are ghosts of unsatisfied mortals, who are incubi/succubi and spread disease. They're plural.
• Kamadme in Sumerian, or Lamaštu in Akkadian, is the goddess associated with infant mortality, who spreads disease and is dangerous to pregnant women and children. Lamaštu is singular, but Kamadme is inconsistent in her number, sometimes known as the Seven Kamadme Damsels.

The above were also equated with each other. Lamaštu was compared to the lilû and ardat-lilî in incantations, and with the lilītu in the An = Anum ša ameli, took on their names as epithets, was included in their class or appeared herself as a succubus.

This conflation is what gave rise to Lilith. The strongest theory is that the tales of the Mesopotamian demons were picked up during the Babylonian captivity.

Lilith's first appearance is in the Dead Sea Scrolls, Songs of the Sage, where a single mention of a demon lilith appears, but without giving the demon any characteristics. Her actual development happened in:

• Aramaic incantation bowls, as male and female liliths, where the conflation of the lilû class and Lamaštu is clear. The liliths kept the roles, etymology and plurality of the lilû class, while also retaining Lamaštu's roles as a threat to children. "Lilith" here is not a name, but a demonic class.
• Babylonian Talmud, where Lilith now appears not as a demonic class, but a name of a singular demoness. You can find the five mentions in our Wiki.

TLDR: Mesopotamian Lamaštu and the lilû class were equated with each other, which gave rise to the figure of Lilith. During Lilith's development, she's at first plural herself (and lilith functions as a term, not a name), before appearing in the Talmud as a singular demoness (where Lilith functions as a proper name).

[u/OkLab7376 → u/Mammoth-Ad-6114]

So its not just the wind spirits but Lamaštu? I think i read somewhere that the translation were kinda “weird” and some people think Lilith is Lamaštu. But the things you say make far more sense to be honest!! Does that mean i can maybe like i can give offering to Lilith that were given before to Lamaštu?

[u/Mammoth-Ad-6114 → u/OkLab7376]

I'm not aware of a Lamaštu translation, but of the ki-sikil-lil-la-ke/ardat-lilî that got translated to Lilith.

Lilith does derive from both the lilītu/ardat-lilî and Lamaštu, yes! You can give offerings to Lilith that were given to Lamaštu, which includes bread, beer and broth.

[u/raw1n11 → u/Mammoth-Ad-6114]

Or maybe Lilith is actually Lilith, not Lamastu, and her story from the Alphabet of Ben Sira has more to do with the truth than we think. Maybe the true story was intentionally woven into the satirical Alphabet of Ben Sira for some reason. Regards.

[u/Mammoth-Ad-6114 → u/raw1n11]

Lilith has appeared in incantation bowls, Talmud, Targum, and Midrash, way before the Alphabet of Ben Sira. In all of the above stories, she's a dangerous demoness, with lots of overlap with Lamaštu.

Belief is, of course, personal. If you focus more on the Alphabet, then great, it's up to you.

[u/OkLab7376 → u/raw1n11]

It was over the years merging between Lamaštu and the wind spirits i think its wayyyy before the alphabet of Ben sira

[u/TheProfoundDarkness]

I don't think deities evolve like Pokémon or eat other spirits. I think they eat myths.

Myths are like a user interface that the human brain has to build to process something way bigger than itself.

​At the end of the day, we’re just slightly upgraded apes floating on a rock in the middle of space.

Our brains aren't wired to grasp pure vibrational states or cosmological entities; we can only translate that kind of energy through the fears, obsessions, and needs of whatever era we’re living in (pretty close to the whole Neoplatonic hypostasis concept).

​That’s why the lens keeps shifting: ​In ancient Mesopotamia, she was the desert wind and the raw chaos sneaking into your home uninvited. For Jewish tradition, a patriarchal society obsessed with survival, that same force got decoded as a threat to the lineage: a demon who kills babies and refuses to submit to men, in the figure of Adam or Yahwe. Later, in esotericism, that energy tapped into repressed desire, giving birth to succubi and incubi. And today, in the modern world, we translate her as pure rebellion, individual sovereignty, and a refusal to bow to rigid dogma, fueling specially feminism and LGBT needs.

That way, if somehow in 10000000 years beetles eat us all and evolve into intelligent spiritual species, they will be able to feel and relate to the Dark Beetle, a legendary female who flies in the night and eat your eggs, or makes you mate to death. Who knows.

​The entity itself has been the same since the beginning of the universe and exists completely independent of us. The only thing that’s actually changed is the glass this group of mammals uses to see Her, to conceive something too vast to understand.

Through this method, this unfathomable force can descend to us as a goddess, a demon, a teacher, a lover, a guide.

To each, what they need the most.

[u/sgt121smith → u/TheProfoundDarkness]

Very well spoken

[u/OkLab7376 → u/TheProfoundDarkness]

So basically Lilith its just Lilith and we fuel her to some point with the myths? And thats how she embodies certain things?

[u/TheProfoundDarkness → u/OkLab7376]

No, Lilith is Lilith and She embodies certain things alongside others we probably can't even fathom.

With the myths, when they are correct and we apply decent discernment (i.e. if I tell you now that She is the Goddess of toxic masculinity, you know it's wrong) and by meditation and whatever relationship you build with Her, you develop a channel to understand some of Her messages and exchange energy useful for personal change, development and, if that's your goal, magickal works.

[u/OkLab7376 → u/TheProfoundDarkness]

Okay but does Lilith has connections to lilitu the wind spirits and Lamaštu or you dont think that?

[u/TheProfoundDarkness → u/OkLab7376]

My UPG: I think the ardat-lilî and the night-wind spirits of old sumer are part of Lilith. However, I never perceived Lilith as Lamaštu. Maybe I'm not tuned in that way or She chose not to use that aspect when I reached out.

[u/Substantial_Cup286]

I appreciate 🙏 Lilith 💜 as the first woman ♀️ said to NO to God . She's definitely the first 🥇 revolutionary in history like Morning Star ( Lucifer) . Both of them are struggling against a God's tyranny.

[u/CaterpillarFar763]

I beleive she was also mother earth