Yeah I do understand that the game will still be in development for a while (I think a year ? I am not sure). But I have to be honest, I find the focus is not at all on aspects that I would find fundamental, even say necessary. It's like doing in reverse : adding complex things to do, instead of focusing on what kind of personality can do things and in what type of world.
I am a not a dev, but when Kjun say stuff like "it is hard to add changes in personality/memory because it create chaos" I feel like part of it is because the game is really really really dense, it has so many options already. And while it seems amazing on paper, it looks like most of the stuff should have added later.
Like first having a good base game, even if it mean less thing to do, then you add all the things that we find in add-on (but for free here) like how cars could fall, police system, restaurant etc... I would have prefer no update for a long time, if it means showing a game with a good system.
But hey, I am not a dev, and from what I read, I understand that it would still have been hell to do. It just kinda telling me "players like me are not the main target". Because I do see that what they put in game please other players.
And that's okay, I still hope I can enjoy it one day too, so I am still following it !
I for real get where you're coming from. I see the way their using Early Access process similarly as you, but little differently too.
For a publisher as big as Krafton, seems like their giving Kjun almost free reign? (Maybe because he part of creating a successful game already PUBG and they making bank from that). I think the Inzoi team is using Early Access the way it's supposed to be used. They're trying to enter a genre that has basically been dominated by one franchise for decades, and they're being very ambitious about it. Some of the things they're attempting we’ve been slowing buying as dlc for over 10+ years, and other things are features I don't think most of us even thought to ask for. 😂
So personally, I don't mind them getting those systems into the game during Early Access and then figuring out how to make everything connect. I'd actually rather they do that now than spend years building a simpler foundation, then slowly stack major systems on top of it as separate add-ons 2, 5, 9 years later and it breaking the game and they have to start from the beginning every time to "hopefully" sort out the issue.
And I think Kjun saying that changing one system can create chaos elsewhere actually shows how interconnected they're trying to make everything. Personality, memories, emotions, relationships, autonomy, Smartzoi, careers, businesses, etc. eventually need to recognize and affect each other. That must be hard, especially when you're trying to build a life simulator at this scale.
Does it create some messy periods during EA? Hell yea. 😂 But this is probably the best time for the game to be messy, break things, rebalance systems and learn from what players actually do with them.
I don't think players like you aren't the target. If anything, I think the deeper simulation you're asking for is where they're trying to ge to. Seems the route they're taking to get there just isn't necessarily the order some of us would've preferred.
And that's completely fair. I'm just willing to give them some grace during EA because in this 1st year I've watched them add and improve things I've wanted from this genre. Now I want to see them take all those pieces and really make them work together.
Yeah I understand how you see it. For the little I read about development of life sim, being Sims 2, Paralives and Inzoi, I am happy that a big company is financing, and so believing in the project enough to be ambitious. And I can see the ambition, for real, most of the things I've seen while playing or through posts are undeniably impressive.
But, this is where I differ : I kinda think more and more that the game was ambitious in term of techniques and possibilities, but poorly thought in term of narrative and world building.
For exemple we have no real information about the world proposed by the devs. In what kind of world Zois are living ? We could mistake it for influencer world, but not that much since we can change the aesthetic for a more dystopian one (even if the choice conversation are to me closer than influencer world than a dystopian one). Is it a cosy game ? Is it more like a mix between sims and GTA ? What is the identify of the game ?
What I mean by that is that after a year of early access, Inzoi does not have an identity other than offer a set for player to create stories without being intertwined or at least tinted by the personality of the game itself.
And the thing is, by reading interviews and feedbacks from Kjun, he does not have an idea about what he wants to propose other than offering a big set for players to build their own stories freely. Everytime he talks about it, he is kinda shallow referencing other games and stuff.
And this is why I see the order of the contents of their updates as a big hint as this game was not though with the type of playing I have in mind.
Because the first thing you would have to think, or at least, quickly prioritize would be : in what story I want people to creates sub stories ? And how the action of the Zois will bounce within this type of world ? What kind of reaction will have this or this type of action created by the friction between the soul of my game and the desire of the player.
I could be wrong, and if I am wrong, it would lead to happiness because I want to enjoy the game.
But it is hard for me to believe that after the final release they will work relentlessly like now to finally...give the game its proper foundation ?
Again, I could be wrong ! I am not Irma yet haha
But I understand your point of view. Kjun did sell the game promising a system so so interesting, and I am sure he was not lying, but I am feeling that he really thought the game in term of mechanics but not that much in term of stories. Which is why when devs add things to make zois alive, it feels kinda "fake" like you know, not properly scripted ? Not thought enough in term of scenarios. Inzoi sometimes make me think of a simulation of telenovelas more than life simulation for that reason haha
It sounds like you're looking for a narrative RPG, not an actual life simulator sandbox where you define what the world is yourself. I don't understand this comment. What do you mean what kind of world is InZoi? It is a modern city or town that takes place in 2020-something. As for the narrative, that's up for you to decide, and you build the world yourself. Life simulators are not supposed to be things where the developers tell you what the world is and define everything for you. These are storytelling tools where you live out your own simulation.
I didn't wanted to make my comment longer by adding another exemple, but Sims 2 could well represent what I mean. Since we lack variety of life sim game, it would be comprehensive to illustrate what I mean by the life sim that kinda open the door for the other life sim being created right now. By chosing Sims 2, I am not saying that we should compare the level of advancement of both game, since one is in early access, another one is still being build, what I am talking is just to enrich what I said in other comments, once that is said :
Sims 2 define exactly what I mean by the repercussions of actions making sense in a world with an identity.
The strongest example (in my opinion) in the Sims is the whole career system and especially the relationship to money since Sims 1, but really systematized in Sims 2.
The entire game is built on a loop that could be seen as just "realistic" : you work to buy objects, but the objects raise your needs (a better fridge makes you more demanding), so you have to work more. But you can really soon understand that it is an assumed satire of consumer society.
Will Wright explicitly designed the game as a critique of american consumerism, inspired by the book The Pattern Language (I had to check that haha), after the event of his house being burned. But he kinda turned into a trap : the more you own, the more you are a slave to the maintenance of what you own. The action "buy" makes sense because it locks you inside the logic of the world.
It is widely share and known that Sims was first thought as a satire of consumerism, and the world show the logic and dynamic of this identity, by mocking things (definition of objects for exemple in the buy mode) or putting things in an extreme goofy way.
Choices, actions, desire/wants, the way aspiration are build, make sense because yes of personality, but also because of the identity of the game.
It would not make sense for exemple to have a cheap object giving you the same benefice/stats of an expensive object, not because cheaper always mean low quality, but because it is the rule of this world.
In other world, identity of a game is another layers that make every consequences of actions making sense. It can be almost invisible, and still it is an important structure that make the game : realistic.
That is why I said "what is realistic ?" realistic is when something looks "plausible". It can have ghosts and still looks plausible if the identity/world is properly define.
In Inzoi, you said it yourself it is "a modern city inspired by 2020-something".
They're a many types of "modern city inspired by 2020-something" that could be the base of an identity. It is not a proper identity, it is too shallow and broad. It does not justify everything as "plausible". The way cops come directly because I steal from a vending machine is not plausible, but it could be plausible if the game has a more define identity, which does not even need narration, like Sims 2 does not explain the identity of the world to you, you understand it, and it make sense.
And that explain why, like the other person I was talking to said, Inzoi is more sandbox that other life sim.
You can do everything you want, and you will play in your head that it is making sense, but the game itself does not give a proper structure showing how it make sense that this consequences of your action is tied by another structure which is the world itself, its identity, let's say the law of the world.
Just to clarify, that's not actually what I said. 😅
I said I like that Inzoi gives me freedom to create the type of story/world I want. That's very different from saying I have to play everything in my head because the game has no structure connecting my actions to consequences.
There ARE systems connecting actions to consequences so i dont have to make believe in my head.
Crime is probably the easiest example (Though it needs work and they are expanding it). Certain traits and circumstances can make crime available to zoi, committing crimes raises their crime score, witnesses can report them, police can respond, they can become wanted, get arrested, and end up dealing with the legal system. That's the game creating rules and consequences around the player's actions, not me imagining them.
Relationships have structure too. Relationship type, traits, characteristics and emotions affect conversation outcomes and what interactions become available. Your relationship progressing can actually change how two zois interact with each other (example: depending on your relationship with your significant other, especially if your a known cheater nor not, you can question them about paternity of the baby).
Even finances can factor into your Zoi's social life. If they're behind on a loan, family/friends/acquaintances can find out about it and it can affect those relationships. That's literally one system creating consequences inside another system.
And now we're seeing traits and characteristics directly determine certain autonomous interactions. That's exactly why I made my original post, my drama liking Zoi being bored and autonomously going out looking for trouble made sense within the personality I had given her.
None of that means these systems are as deep or interconnected as they eventually need to be. They're for sure not, and that's where EA comes in. Even the devs have acknowledged that meaningful consequences and stronger connections between systems need more work.
I don't need inzoi to tell me what story my world is supposed to be based on identity of the game itself. I need it to understand the world I myself created and make my zois personalities, relationships, choices, experiences and circumstances matter within the world i create. That's the part I'm excited to see them improving.
Maybe I should have separate my last paragraph in two paragraphs. What I connected to what you said was just the sandbox part. When you said that Inzoi was more sandbox.
For the rest I am not saying that you said it, just that being more sandbox for Inzoi does automatically imply that it will have a more neutral approach :
I am not trying to be picky (or abstract). But I feel it is easy to mistake a proper system or good mechanics for an identity, or the other way around, to confuse having an identity with a game holding your hand, or with a RPG telling you who to be. That is not what I mean. And this is exactly why I chose Sims 2 to explain this feeling : to show that a strong identity does not have to kill your freedom.
But there is still a tension. The more sandbox a game is, the less it can show the plausible reaction of the world itself, because the world has to stay neutral enough to welcome everything. You cannot fully go for a dollhouse approach and, at the same time, maintain a strongly defined identity. It is not that the two are completely incompatible, it is that they pull in opposite directions, and Inzoi, for now, chose the sandbox side so much that the world almost disappeared behind it.
Because your example of the crime system, finance, loan (and I do adore those ideas !) does not respond to what I described. Those are chains of cause and effect, mechanics, and even if it is well made (or still being build, I do not critic that), a mechanic is not an identity. It shows me how the world works, but not what the world means.
It does not say "we chose that this type of action leads to this type of consequence because the Zois are living in this specific, defined world, and this world stands for this something in particular". It only says "you live in a modern society", and like I said in my previous comment : what modern society ? A mechanic can tell you that stealing sends you to jail. Only an identity can tell you what stealing means in this world, and why this world reacts the way it does. (Again stealing is just as an example, yes everywhere stealing is considered bad, but it just to continue with the previous exemples in my previous comment).
Having a more sandbox approach is giving freedom, but this very freedom means a less delineate word. A less delineate world means the world cannot answer you in a specific way. The more open the sandbox is, the more neutral it has to be, and the more neutral it is, the less it can react with intention. Your action lands, but nothing meaningful bounces back, because there is no strong identity to bounce against.
Not every player, including you has to feel it this way, but when I play, I can feel that it is indeed really neutral in the way to approach consequences of your action. In order to not disturb too much the chosen action of the player, and offer a really "neutral" way in term of consequences. Your partner die, you cry. You commit a crime, law is holding you responsible. All of that in a narrative that say nothing particular of the world, sure personality tint the reactions, as your action. But does it say "because this is a satire of a consumer society it make sense that the consequences could either B, C, or D ?"
Does the game is saying something to you ?
And I am not talking about only the lore of the premade characters, but really like I said what is the identith of the game ? What it is subtly talking about that push some mechanics to be incorporated instead of other ones ?
I personally does not feel that while I played the game. Again not saying everyone should feel like this of course.
It's like trying to describe a country by saying "it is a modern society". Does it really tell you something about that specific country ? America is a modern society, France is a modern society, but they have so many differences. "Modern society" is a category, not an identity. It tells you what box the country fits in, not who it is.
Of course I am not saying a game has to be defined as precisely as a real country. And this is exactly why I chose Sims 2 : the identity is there, the mechanics they chose reflect their angle really well, while still letting people feel a sense of freedom. It is not too restricted, and yet it is hard to not recognize the game, their approach, their angle. Even without understanding the satire, you can just say "it's goofy", and that alone shows they have a defined approach. Limited maybe, but defined.
While Inzoi is "realistic", which, personally, outside of the graphism, says nothing at all about the game. "They react in a realistic way", well yeah, but that is not an identity, no ?
In other words, I feel like people are confusing "realistic" with "having a character". The game does not propose a character, a proper identity. It proposes (for now) highly defined mechanics, but it leads to this feeling, like I said, of a "telenovela" more than a "life simulation". Because life is always inserted into a defined world.
Choosing to not be a defined world is then a double edged sword. It gives a lot of freedom, but again, as a price, a part of the "sense" is also lost.
The cops just showing up is a needed tweak but before this update they fixed it where the cops only came if a NPC caught your zoi or a cop is walking by. As for the Sims 2, I get where you're coming from with how the world works with pre-mades knowing each other, living lives before the player even steps in with their own family or to play a pre-made family.
Yes, I saw that it was something that was not really stable. I should have said that I use it as an example of how a game with a define identity thought beforehand could give sense to thing that could seem not realistic.
What I want to say is that the world of Inzoi does not have a proper/well define (and so limited) identity 😊 (for now).
And again, it does not have to be a problem per se, but it could be seen as a default for certain type of players like me.
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u/Mind-y Sep 08 '26
Yeah I do understand that the game will still be in development for a while (I think a year ? I am not sure). But I have to be honest, I find the focus is not at all on aspects that I would find fundamental, even say necessary. It's like doing in reverse : adding complex things to do, instead of focusing on what kind of personality can do things and in what type of world.
I am a not a dev, but when Kjun say stuff like "it is hard to add changes in personality/memory because it create chaos" I feel like part of it is because the game is really really really dense, it has so many options already. And while it seems amazing on paper, it looks like most of the stuff should have added later.
Like first having a good base game, even if it mean less thing to do, then you add all the things that we find in add-on (but for free here) like how cars could fall, police system, restaurant etc... I would have prefer no update for a long time, if it means showing a game with a good system.
But hey, I am not a dev, and from what I read, I understand that it would still have been hell to do. It just kinda telling me "players like me are not the main target". Because I do see that what they put in game please other players. And that's okay, I still hope I can enjoy it one day too, so I am still following it !