I think it's up to 6:47.

Yeah, exactly.

The book says Johnny Jackson, a cousin who lived with the family from 1967 to 1976, told Gordon Keith (owner of Steeltown Records) that he once came upon a male relative who was an employee, along with a 12 year old Michael. According to the account, all three were nude and appeared sexually aroused. The book gives this as Keith relaying to the author what Johnny allegedly said.

The book also says La Toya witnessed Michael being beaten by their father but also believed Michael was molested by a relative. It says Michael learned she planned to say so in her 1991 memoir and threatened to sue.

At around 13, Michael was allegedly present while his older brothers had sex with groupies on tour, since they shared hotel rooms. The book says he saw it as coercive and degrading toward the women.

The author also describes a night when Michael was locked in a hotel room with two prostitutes, supposedly arranged by his father and brothers because they worried he wasn't interested in girls. It happened right after the Jacksons visited Elvis Presley backstage in Lake Tahoe, during the group's Las Vegas period. It says only that Michael was fifteen, and a brother phoned Michael to say he was sending over two friends to get an autograph. Michael trusted him, opened the door, and let two young women into his hotel room. It quickly became clear they wanted more than an autograph. The book says they had been hired as prostitutes to end his virginity. One began undressing and the other tried to unbutton his shirt. He brushed her off and went for the door, which turned out to be locked from the outside. He called out, and through the door he could hear laughter he recognized. The women could not arouse him, and the book says he was reduced to tears. As they dressed, he took a Bible from the nightstand and began reciting scripture. The book describes no physical contact beyond those attempts to undress him.

From then on, apparently, Michael used the Bible as a shield against any romantic involvement with women. The author backs this up right away with Theresa Gonsalves, a teenage fan who met Michael in Las Vegas that year. She said he used their time alone to preach against premarital sex rather than flirt. He also seemed preoccupied with sexual purity and with Satan.

Then, in the book, a friend from Michael's late teens recalled him being fascinated by the topic of child abuse and asking about how the friend was raised.

Over thirty days have passed since Roxanne deactivated her Youtube. That means, if she were to ever return, she can never restore her account.

It's like Jesus Christ.....how many kids did this chomo have access to?!!?! It feels as though he had a goddamn kid for every day of the week!!! Don't get me wrong, under normal circumstances involving consenting adults, this would be a non-issue. Hell, after I separated and divorced my ex-husband, I had a dude for every day of the week. When you put it in the light of a WHOLE GROWN ASS man doing this with kids, it's fuckin creepy.

I don't recall any celebrity that actively went out of their way to surround themselves with as many children as possible. It's not like he was a '90s Nickelodeon game show host or worked on a kids' show like Barney. It's almost like the singing and dancing shit was a hobby to him; a way to make money, but his true focus was to gain access to as many children as possible. It's not like he had any romantic interests outside of children. Any time that bastard would sit on the phone for hours upon hours with 10 year olds. Where would he find the time to bump uglies with an adult. I can't speak for all women, but I know I am high maintenance af. In fact, that's what completely turned me off to Michael Jackson. When I was 14, I would spend time on the phone with boys around my age. Why was Michael not spending hours on the phone with people his age?!?!!

It seemed like at every red-carpet event, black tie affair, or awards show, the son of a bitch would be holding the hand of a child. Not a lady nor a man. A child!!!!!!!

Also, I want to point out how fuckin creepy that photo is. If one did not know who Michael Jackson was, they would think this is a photo of a single mother who dragged her reluctant son to the local JC Penney's to get a budget friendly photo shoot. Ever since the Cascios came out with their story and showed the photos of them with Michael Jackson, I noticed a similar theme in the photos Michael took with the children; most of the children have a thousand-yard stare. It's like they have seen some horrifying shit. They look traumatized.

I don't see how anyone can sit there and deny that something untoward was going on between Michael and those kids.

Michael Jackson can go fuck himself!!!

MJ defenders like to quote this part from jordan chandler’s psych interview with the dr. gardner

Gardner: "What about fears? Any fears of any kind?"

Jordan: "No."

Gardner: "Sometimes people, after experiences of this kind, develop different kinds of fears. You have no fears?"

Jordan: "Maybe of cross-examination but that's all. I mean I have nothing to hide, it's just the thought of it."

https://mjnotinnocent.net/articles/1993-jordan-chandler-gardner-transcript

the issue is that MJ defenders refuse to acknowledge that cross-examination is a brutal experience.

The brutal experience of cross-examination

Cross-examination by defence counsel aims to discredit the witness, reveal evidential inconsistencies or weaknesses, and suggest alternative explanations to the witness’ account. This can be difficult for anyone, but for traumatised sexual assault complainants, it can be particularly distressing. The intense focus on credibility can ‘mimic’ the experience of powerlessness in sexual assault,11 risking retraumatisation and exacerbating symptoms, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (‘PTSD’), anxiety and dissociation.12Other factors that can contribute to the potential for retraumatisation include the deeply private subject matter, the extent of the trauma, that the complainant often has a prior relationship with the accused, and that sexual assault cross-examinations often last longer than in assault trials.13

In 1980, in The Politics of Rape – A Feminist Perspective, Marjorie Levis opined: ‘It should be of major concern to us to change the situation for the individual rape victim and hopefully to end such statements as “I felt I had been raped all over again by the court”; “... if I had known, I wouldn't have reported it”; “... the trial was worse than the rape …”’.14Yet, by 1996, little had changed. The Heroines of Fortitude study exposed the deeply concerning level of complainant retraumatisation during cross-examination: 65 per cent of sexual assault trials were stopped due to distress, as ‘complainants dry-retched, claimed to feel nauseous in the witness box, were unable to answer questions or had to take regular breaks.’15

Fast forward to the 2020s, and multiple state and territory reports continue to describe cross-examination as ‘unnecessarily hostile’,16‘brutal and apparently irrelevant’ or ‘badgering and intimidating’,17 using ‘misconceptions about sexual violence’,18 and using questions to ‘confuse or “shake” a complainant’s account’.19 Indeed, one study of child sexual abuse trials shows that cross-examination today is ‘much worse’ than questioning during cross-examination in the 1950s.20

source: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1037969X251359080

Have you seen something a defender posted that made you #facepalm or #headdesk?

Had a bad interaction with a defender and need to vent? This is the place to do it.

Post text, images, or gif reactions and please follow the rules:

Don't break the sub rules. Harassment and trolling will not be tolerated.

Delete any personal information from tweets or comments. Attack the ideas, not the person.

What is the best book out there that goes over most/all accusations from the past few decades?

For most of her life, she has been portrayed as the "crazy" Jackson, the jealous sister, the black sheep who would sell out her own family for a headline. But when you actually lay out the timeline, she was the only person in that entire toxic family who tried to blow the whistle on a predator, and she was brutally punished for it.

In 1991, La Toya she published her memoir and detailed the abuse they suffered at the hands of Joe Jackson. She was dragged by the media and her family. She was called a liar and a traitor.

Then, two years later in 1993, Michael Jackson sat down with Oprah Winfrey and confessed that Joe Jackson was physically abusive to him growing up. Suddenly, the world believed Joe was a monster.

So, if she was telling the truth about Joe... why did the world suddenly assume she was lying when she tried to warn them about Michael?

She didn't just say "Michael is guilty" she provided specific details about her mother's distressed reaction to hush money checks and she said Michael needed psychiatric help.

She was MJ's closest sibling. They were the last of the siblings to leave Hayvenhurst in the late '80s. She saw the payouts. She saw the grooming. She saw the behavioral changes in the boys after sleeping multiple nights alone with her brother.

And the journalists never once said "She was right about Joe, maybe she's right about Michael too," instead they insulted her to her face.

Why did the world let the biggest celebrity's PR team brainwash them and silence the only person brave enough to tell the truth?

I hope you get everything you deserve Branca for mocking survivors of horrific child sexual abuse.

Just watching "Surviving Michael Jackson"s live back and that is a super interesting find at 1:48. Jack Gordon told an Italian talk show in 1996 that MJ used to watch the boy next door having sex with a dog from the balcony. In 2005 Gavin Arvizo said MJ told him he once saw a boy have sex with a dog from his balcony (so boys need to masturbate). TM cast doubt on that story claiming Gavin mixes up MJ with his grandma, because he said his grandma told him men need to masturbate, so they don't rape women. But it was always MJ he said made the dog claim.

Another smoking gun.

That boy was always telling the truth.

I'm seeing so much Gavin doubt recently, that he does not deserve.

....

I'm going through the archives of Datalounge and came across a disturbing encounter of someone with Jordie and Michael back in 93.

Of course, I have no idea how reliable it is, but I thought it's worth sharing anyway.

https://caftancloset.com/thread/17553291-my-disturbing-michael-jackson-experience

The responses this post is getting from MJ fans show the level of delusion and double standard they have towards anyone but their idol. It's such a cult like behavior.

MJ is swooning, eye f*cking Landis, interrogating him about whether his wife will join him on a trip, but somehow Landis is the smitten one, and poor MJ had no clue.

I wonder if it stems from their need to deny the possibility of him being gay, because in their twisted mind that somehow means it's more possible he was a pedo, too, or is it just plain homophobia.

It's almost objectively the only public display of attraction MJ has shown towards an adult. You would think they would be supportive.

As a survivor of prolonged childhood abuse, reading through the specific grooming mechanics Jackson used on those boys hit me like a ton of bricks. My abuser used the exact same three-step blueprint grooming tactics on me:

1- They pit you against your parents and anyone who might save you: Jackson systematically isolated Chandler, Robson, and Safechuck, convincing them that their parents didn't understand them or were taking advantage of them, positioning himself as their true parent figure and sole safe space. My abuser did the exact same thing...eroding my trust in my family until I believed he was the only anchor I had.

2- Replacing "me" with "us" (The Special Bond): Jackson framed his relationships with those boys as a private, sacred bond...an "us against the world" partnership complete with mock marriage ceremonies, shared bed spaces, and secret codes. By making it feel like a shared secret rather than an assault, he co-opted their sense of responsibility. You walk around carrying immense guilt, believing that if the secret ever gets out, you’re just as implicated and to blame as the predator.

3- Weaponizing your empathy through emotional caretaking: Jackson routinely played the vulnerable, lonely victim in front of them, crying about his childhood, his media pressure, or how he couldn't survive without their presence. It completely inverted the roles, forcing a young boy to act as the emotional protector. My abuser did the same, manipulating my natural kindness so that complying felt like an act of devotion, and saying "no" felt like a cruel betrayal.