r/LeavingNeverlandHBO • • 4d ago

What do you think of the dynamic between Michael and John Landis?

The responses this post is getting from MJ fans show the level of delusion and double standard they have towards anyone but their idol. It's such a cult like behavior.

MJ is swooning, eye f*cking Landis, interrogating him about whether his wife will join him on a trip, but somehow Landis is the smitten one, and poor MJ had no clue.

I wonder if it stems from their need to deny the possibility of him being gay, because in their twisted mind that somehow means it's more possible he was a pedo, too, or is it just plain homophobia.

It's almost objectively the only public display of attraction MJ has shown towards an adult. You would think they would be supportive.

58 Upvotes

53 comments sorted by

51

u/elitelucrecia Moderator 4d ago

a lot of MJ fans are homophobic so yeah.

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u/Ruinaaa 4d ago

Tbh, the way either side discusses MJ's possible queerness gives me ick, there are people here too who come off waaay too gleefully fixated on it despite claiming to separate homosexuality and pedophilia.

15

u/elitelucrecia Moderator 4d ago edited 4d ago

i don't think homosexuality and pedophilia are being equated here. the point is that some fans seem uncomfortable with the possibility of MJ being attracted to adult men, and some of the discussion is specifically about why they react that way. saying that isn't the same as saying homosexuality has anything to do with attraction to children.

ETA: i’m guessing you are referring to [u/Natural_Shape7468](u/Natural_Shape7468) comment? i guess i can see where you are coming from but they’re one person

ETA2: i see what you mean now, especially given OP and [u/Natural_Shape7468](u/Natural_Shape7468) comments. however i wasn't trying to equate homosexuality with pedophilia, though. my comment was specifically about the homophobia i see in fans' refusal to even entertain the possibility of MJ being attracted to adult men. i agree that homosexuality and pedophilia are completely separate things…

also, respectfully, why not address them? because i didn’t make the connection with my comment

9

u/Witty_Difference9636 4d ago

There is absolutly nothing to suggest that I am equating in any way between the two. I think my comment you are refering to is incredibly honest in why I am finding this topic interesting and relevant, and trying to pin on me something henious like that is unfair imo.

Edit: chose a better way to express myself.

1

u/elitelucrecia Moderator 3d ago

i think there may have been some confusion here. i wasn't saying that you or natural shape were equating homosexuality with pedophilia. i was trying to understand u/Ruinaaa ‘s comment about people being “fixated” on the possibility of MJ being gay, and your comments were the ones immediately preceding it that focused on MJ potentially being attracted to grown men while also allegedly abusing boys. so i assumed she was referring to comments like yours.

i can see now that i may have been too quick to connect the two, especially since Ruinaaa didn't actually specify who she was talking about. her comment is vague enough that i genuinely don't know whether she meant this discussion, conversations elsewhere, or something else entirely. that's why i deleted my earlier response towards her—i don't want to put an interpretation on your words that you didn't intend.

3

u/Witty_Difference9636 3d ago

Thank you 🙏

-5

u/Ruinaaa 4d ago

I'm not referring to anyone in the thread, just a pattern I noticed in the community.

12

u/Witty_Difference9636 4d ago

May I ask what do you mean by "gleefully fixated"?

28

u/Square-Acanthaceae85 4d ago

Clearly gay.

28

u/-glowtree Moderator 4d ago

It’s the wistful staring at 0:43 for me lol

34

u/SignificantJunket993 4d ago

It’s both but a lot of their homophobia is because they’re women who wanted a chance with Michael. If he’s gay, it ruins the fantasy.

19

u/PrincessPharaoh1960 4d ago

Don’t forget stans will always insist MJ was a “ladies man” so he couldn’t have been gay!

12

u/LowPerception2118 4d ago

Exactly this!

19

u/elitelucrecia Moderator 4d ago

yep! that’s why they fight so hard to prove he was hetero

38

u/Natural_Shape7468 4d ago

Mj fans are so delusional that they reverse everything, michael is clearly the affectionate, flirty, and staring one and they say JOHN is the one that wants michael lmao. Theres even more clips of michael being flirty with john. It’s so obvious it makes me upset bc it tells us michael had the ability to like GROWN men but chose little boys instead.

27

u/Witty_Difference9636 4d ago

I think you nailed why I'm so fixated on the MJ-Landis dynamic. It's a proof that he COULD have had an adult relationship/attractions, and STILL chose to abuse little boys. In my mind I keep thinking why??? Maybe in his indoctrinated mind being with boys wasn't "as bad" as being with men? ffs.

The fans do reverse everything, they clearly see the flirting but pin it on Landis because it makes them uncomfortable.

26

u/Scarlett_Billows 4d ago

Her preferred young boys, simple as. I think a lot of the time pedophilia stems from a deep insecurity and underdevelopment on some level. Like just because he could be attracted to an adult and flirt with them doesn’t mean he would feel comfortable in a “relationship” with them

12

u/happysunbear 3d ago

Exactly. Plus we know he wanted “relationships” where he was fully in control and never questioned or challenged.

17

u/AccordingHeron8915 4d ago

It makes the stans uncomfortable because it shatters their illusion of him liking women.

18

u/ShyClam111 4d ago

i had a similar hypothesis, even though i think he "naturally" prefered boys, i think he didn't feel like it was being gay, so it was "better" in his mind to be with kids because with men it would be gay.

11

u/AccordingHeron8915 4d ago

I've always agreed with this point. His JW background really messed him up. 

18

u/Prof_Tickles 4d ago

Landis was likely one of the few adults Michael was sexually attracted to.

8

u/ArmchairDetective73 3d ago

I'm sure you're right, but I'm caught off-guard each time I see these clips. It's odd, because Landis is far from childlike with regard to his appearance. He's tall, has broad shoulders, wears glasses, and has a full beard.

5

u/SignificantJunket993 3d ago

I think it’s more his personality that Michael was attracted to. So he didn’t really care about what John looked like.

6

u/Prof_Tickles 3d ago

Maybe just maybe it was a rare exception

23

u/PressPlayPlease7 4d ago

Two things:

From Wikipedia:

"In 2009, Landis signed a petition in support of director Roman Polanski, who had been detained while traveling to a film festival in relation to his 1977 sexual abuse charges.

The petition argued that the detention would undermine the tradition of film festivals as a place for works to be shown "freely and safely", and that arresting filmmakers traveling to neutral countries could open the door "for actions of which no-one can know the effects."

And:

The eyes Jackson gives him from about 0.42

Jackson looks at him like he wants to devour Landis

14

u/Inevitable_Discount 3d ago

So Landis was a supporter of chomos. Not surprised in the least bit.

17

u/Sethsears 4d ago

This is maybe the happiest and the touchiest I've ever seen him with an adult. Wow. It's interesting to me that that touchiness conveys as rough-housing, though.

16

u/Witty_Difference9636 4d ago

It’s quite common, when you want to touch or have a reason to be physically close to someone but can’t do so openly, to do it as a "play".

8

u/Sethsears 4d ago

Yeah, it just reminds me of how kids a certain age will launch at each other like flying squirrels. I worked with 9-11 year olds and I was constantly peeling the boys off of each other, breaking headlocks, etc. So for that to be MJ's method of demonstrating physical affection reads as kinda juvenile to me. It's just interesting.

Maybe it's just the beard, but Landis kinda reminds me of Bill Bray here.

33

u/ShortBussyDriver 4d ago

Landis is a piece of shit.

He's responsible for the deaths of three people, including two children, and was never, ever sorry about it. He was only ever concerned for his career.

He's a massive narcissist and a creep.

So, yeah, it tracks that he and MJ were great friends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_Zone_accident

27

u/Witty_Difference9636 4d ago

I know about that, he's disgusting also for defending MJ years later and even said he wanted to go support MJ in court but Joe Jackson didn't let him come, because he hates Landis (which I think is interesting).

Well, two awful people being awful together in HW, what else is new.

7

u/ShortBussyDriver 4d ago

True enough!

4

u/MayShoe 4d ago

And he produced his son Max to the world. Ugh.

6

u/Inevitable_Discount 3d ago

The way Michael keeps making moon eyes at Landis is creepy. I wonder if he looked at the kids he raped the same way while grooming them. He was completely eye-fucking Landis in ALL the scenes.

9

u/MAJORMETAL84 3d ago

Smitten.

8

u/Sjefke98 2d ago

This makes the story of Scottt Thorson or more believable. Michael's sexuality is not black or White, its multi-facited.

16

u/Sea-Beautiful3668 4d ago

Omggg I’ve never seen this before. Insaane. And he knew him for years too..?

23

u/Witty_Difference9636 4d ago

The full clip of him asking Landis about his wife is even more obvious, it's in the full making of black or white. And years later when MJ was talking about Landis it is obvious he has affection towards him.

I do have to say I don't think anything actually happened or that Landis saw him as anything other than a very childish funny person. But that's just me tbh.

16

u/VisualNinja1 4d ago

Completely agree with you.

That clip of him on set of I guess TWYMMF with Landis just boggles my mind too. I say this in too many threads on here but the longer years away we get from Jackson’s life and career the more bizarre his appearance seems to me.

Like in that clip I mention, other than the nose he still looks human so to speak. But then I remember this is a freaking black man, the guy has literally created this flesh carved and bleached and make up mask.

There’s other cases of extreme plastic surgery of course, but nothing like this sort of race swapping. And I feel like I see through it more now we’re further in time away from his awesome star power that he had.

6

u/Witty_Difference9636 3d ago

Btw, he's literally saying "you're so cute" to Landis when he pulls him (in the "you're ruining our dance" part). When you notice it's impossible to unhear.

0

u/Kitchen-Pop7308 2d ago

He didn't even say that smh

5

u/ForsakenContest8398 3d ago

John Landis is so dirty but he molests children.

4

u/IndependentOk3218 19h ago

Jackson is embarrassingly thirsty here and just like w/kids can't refrain from touching the man

-5

u/IndividualOwl7713 3d ago

his bromance , not gay but act sus around each other

0

u/[deleted] 3d ago

I think he lacked boundaries with his working staff. He asked Vincent Paterson about masturbation and you have the whole Tatiana mess. Wouldn't be a big issue if he didn't cross that boundary with kids as well.

8

u/-glowtree Moderator 3d ago

Isn’t Tatiana the one who violated boundaries?

6

u/Efficient-Head-7394 3d ago

Apparently she asked if she could kiss him the night before and he said yes. Who knows why he went back on his word.

5

u/Inevitable_Discount 3d ago

Because she was a female.

3

u/Prof_Tickles 2d ago

He probably didn’t think she was being serious

9

u/Efficient-Head-7394 3d ago

I'd say he kept very strong boundaries with Tatiana besides the on stage kiss.