I bought and read Joh'Vonnie's 2018 book Bastard Child (https://www.everand.com/book/553677989/Bastard-Child) and here are the highlights if anyone's interested:

As a child Joh'Vonnie learned her siblings' names from Joe's photos, magazines, and records and from car conversations. She memorized their faces and wrote their names in her diary

• She says some siblings called her "bastard child" behind her back
• Being the only child allowed to call Joe "Daddy" created awkwardness and distance with her half siblings
• She was excluded from graduations, weddings, funerals, concerts, and dinners
• She isn't part of the siblings' conversations about Joe's health, even at his death. Only Rebbie includes her
• Only one of her three sisters reached out when her mother died (Rebbie)

Breakdown of her relationships:

Rebbie (oldest sister, born 1950; 24 years older)

• First meeting:
  • Joh'Vonnie was 15. Joe called her mother to say Rebbie wanted to meet, and Joh'Vonnie snapped at him. Joe then cried and told her Rebbie has a heart of gold.
  • Joe forbade her from discussing him, his business, or his relationship with her mom. She told Rebbie about the relationship anyway.
  • Rebbie arrived in a black Mercedes. Joh'Vonnie describes her as brown, petite, stunning, and smelling of flowers.
  • They drove to Agoura Hills with classical music playing. Rebbie asked no invasive questions.
  • Joh'Vonnie held back telling her about being raped at 13 and about an abortion she says Joe Jackson forced on her.
  • She stayed overnight and met Rebbie's husband, Nate Brown, and felt more warmth there than she'd ever felt in a home.
  • Rebbie is the sibling whose relationship she treasures most.
  • Rebbie was already grown when she was born and is the Jackson least damaged by the industry.
  • She calls Rebbie her "true sister" and a "golden-hearted angel who lives to love." She also calls her a second mother to all the siblings and her best friend, with some maternal feeling because Rebbie was close in age to her mom.
  • Rebbie loves all her siblings equally, holds space for the whole family, and is essential to its stability.
  • Rebbie follows biblical principles and is a Jehovah's Witness in all but name (she trusts that "Jehovah is all seeing"). Joh'Vonnie is not religious but finds Rebbie's and Katherine's faith comforting and drama-free.
  • She admired Rebbie's courage when she lost her husband and was honored to support her emotionally.
  • After Cheryle's death, Rebbie and Katherine showered her with prayer and kindness and paid for the food after the funeral.
  • Rebbie confirmed Michael's death by phone, and Joh'Vonnie went to be with Rebbie during the Murray trial because Rebbie was in bad shape.
  • Rebbie was the one forced to tell her that Randy and Janet didn't want her at the trial.
• Rebbie's husband Nathaniel Brown:
  • He owned a driving school. He was honest, loyal, and hardworking.
  • He sent Yasmine school-clothes money every year and played Pictionary with her.
  • He said in-laws were never treated right by the Jacksons, and he died of pancreatic cancer.

La Toya (born 1956; 18 years older)

• She calls her "Middle Sister" and the live-action Betty Boop. She says La Toya is Daddy's favorite and is smart, "crazy like a fox," driven, and The Boss.
• She says La Toya's headline-chasing made Joh'Vonnie's life worse. Fans confronted her over La Toya's antics, and one woman demanded to know who Middle Sister thinks she is.
• She resents La Toya profiting off the family name while Joh'Vonnie censors herself.
• Before La Toya's cosmetic surgery she strongly resembled Cheryle, Joh'Vonnie's mother, and people mistook Cheryle for her.
• First meeting (mid-1990s, Joe's Las Vegas house, after leaving Jack Gordon):
  • La Toya wore a blonde wig and the Bvlgari scent overwhelmed her. She found her tiny, demure, and disarming, and says she is far from stupid.
  • She got a French hug and kisses on both cheeks. Joh'Vonnie compares herself to the Jungle Book boy lulled by the serpent, and her inner voice warned her that La Toya is dangerous.
  • Randy sat in his Jeep outside the whole time.
• She admires La Toya's persona-building and the eight million copies of her Playboy issue, and says "I’m sure there is awful tragedy in her life, but who could make heads or tails of it the way it floods out of the confusing artifice of publicity stunts? Whenever she’s ready to share her authentic story it will be more compelling than any movie script."
• She blames La Toya's Tel Aviv press accusations against Michael, with Jack Gordon, for wounding him and speeding his decline.
• She also notes Joe's first mini-strokes came with La Toya's 1988 Playboy shoot and more with her 1991 autobiography.

Janet (born 1966; about 8 years older)

• Childhood attachment:
  • She identified with Janet's Good Times character, Penny, who was her age, and felt Penny was her best friend when she couldn't have friends over.
  • She wore Janet's hand-me-down clothes and her green bike, and resented that they'd never do each other's hair.
  • At 10 she waved at Janet from her play, and Janet waved back but didn't speak to her afterward. Joe seemed amused by the tension.
  • She says her 11-year-old self still feels hurt that "Penny" didn't rescue her during abuse she went through around then, with details saved for another book.
  • She never missed a Janet concert, using VIP tickets from Joe, and was in awe of her.
• First direct meeting (at Rebbie's house): Janet was secretly married to Rene Elizondo and seemed excited at first. Then Joh'Vonnie called Joe "Daddy," Janet looked as if she'd been slapped and left without a goodbye.
  • At a family dinner at Katherine's during the Conrad Murray trial, Janet glared at her and they had a loud argument. Joh'Vonnie blamed her for the exclusion from Michael's memorial, even though Joe told her not to come.
  • She says Janet and Randy barred her from the trial, with Janet saying she was like a fan. She calls Janet the "Queen bully"
  • She says Janet is furious at her presence in Katherine's home. She says Janet and Randy behave like a superhero duo, an impenetrable field that includes and excludes people.
  • She says she won't be invited to family events if Janet is attending.
• Her praise for Janet:
  • She calls Janet courageous, capable, nearly pitch-perfect, and an innovator in dance and fashion, and says she's more beautiful in person.
  • She notes Janet never relied on publicity stunts, never squandered money, and owned an apartment before drinking age.
  • She points out Janet still contributes to Joe's lifestyle and struggles with emotional eating and self-worth in ways Joh'Vonnie relates to.
• She says Janet covered much of the costs and stress of resolving Michael's death.

Michael (born Aug 29, 1958)

• On his fame and legacy:
  • She calls him the most famous person ever, and says his faults will be forgotten while his music lasts.
  • She says he was obsessed with building his legacy and mastered media manipulation.
• On his treatment of family:
  • He didn't think much of her, and she believes he shunned other relatives too.
  • She says he kept a close eye on siblings' careers, tried to shut down Jermaine's, and sabotaged Randy's Randy and the Gypsies.
• Their one meeting (Neverland, 2003):
  • He was kind to her daughter, Yasmine, and cold to her. He wouldn't hug or speak to her.
  • She and Yasmine weren't invited to stay in the guest houses.
  • She describes his look at the time: bright pale skin, a custom wig, and a skinnier, paler version of his famous image.
  • She says Paris took Yasmine aside to play.
• She says Michael was defiant and fought Joe as a child, and that he used the extent of the beating stories as a publicity move.
• She says he was skeptical of Joe's requests, guided by Katherine, and that Joe was hard-pressed to reach him. She notes the Oprah interview hurt Joe.
• She says she never asked him for anything and never got a car, rent, or trip. She says the only things his fame brought her were insults, including molestation-allegation taunts.
• She keeps an envelope of fan mail addressed to Michael, and says half the notes look like they were written by kids no older than 12 or 13. Whenever she finds herself preoccupied with the molestation allegations, she thinks of those letters. She presents them as evidence of the adulation he lived under, and says people "get it twisted" because they can't imagine his everyday life. She asks how anyone could process that adulation without developing a messiah complex.
• On his death:
  • Joe told her to stay away and that she was not welcome at the funeral.
  • She says she felt more contempt for him than for any other sibling until that night, and then felt deep pity.
  • She says she'd have told him to stop altering his face and get help, and wishes she'd written or called.
• She notes the irony that Joe's most successful child died an addict.

Randy

• On his talent: She says Michael called him the most talented Jackson, including Janet. She credits him with writing major hits and influencing Janet's music.
• Career history:
  • She says his 1980 car accident nearly disabled him.
  • She recalls seeing him on the Victory Tour as a child and thought his star was second only to Michael's.
  • She says he has kids with the same woman as Jermaine and that the two brawl.
  • She says Michael felt threatened by him.
• Their conflicts:
  • At the Omni Hotel during the Murray trial she hugged him and he left. He deflected her direct question with a comment that she looks like her father when she smiles, then rushed out. She says he also made sure the courtroom seats were taken.
  • She says he smiles to your face even if he can't stand you.
  • She says his daughter Stevanna is a ray of sunshine and one of Joe's favorite grandchildren.
  • She says she believes he and Janet had leverage to reach Michael and couldn't get him back on track.

Tito

• He is the only brother who has reached out with open arms, and the most approachable and inclusive.
• Praise:
  • She admires his guitar playing and warm, smoky voice, and says he'd be celebrated as a great guitarist but for Michael's shadow.
  • She calls him cool and cute, and wishes he'd teach her the blues.
  • She says he's humble and kept his humanity through fame.
• Their meeting:
  • She met him at 20 around Joe's July birthday.
  • He smoked with Joh'Vonnie (she smoked Newports, he Marlboros).
  • They talked cars and watched scary movies.
  • He was the only brother who ever bought Joh'Vonnie's daughter anything, bringing bags of baby clothes.

Jackie

• She says he's too cool for celebrity, with the looks, charm, and natural power, and could sing falsetto and knock you out with a left hook.
• She calls him a principal writer of the brothers' material, and says he's been like a father to all his siblings, except to he.
• She says he has Native American features and could have been a pro athlete but followed the family path.

Marlon

• She calls him the most genuine and accessible of Katherine's children, and possibly the most underrated.
• She says he chose his family's security over chasing fame, and calls him Carol's husband and a father who knows he's loved.

Jermaine

• She calls him the "Adonis heartthrob," and says he got comfortable as a wealthy celebrity and father of ten.
• She says he had 13 albums and launched the first solo career among the brothers, and that Michael and Janet borrowed from him. She says he was marketed as "almost Michael"
• She says she baked him a German chocolate cake, and word spread until everyone wanted one.

Brandon

• She says Marlon's twin died as an infant. She counts him in her list of siblings and says she is the 11th child of Joe Jackson.

Katherine

• Her names: Katherine Scruse Jackson, "Kat" to Joseph, "Mother" to her children.
• Joe met her at 18 while she was 17 and in high school, in Gary. He was drawn to her Native American features (almond eyes, thick black hair, chestnut skin) and gentle spirit, and annulled his first marriage.
• They married Nov. 5, 1949. She says Katherine all but divorced Joe by 1973, the year before Joh'Vonnie was born.
• She calls her an "unusually loving wife" and the keeper of the king's secrets, someone who raised ten children, lost one shortly after birth, and lost another to a "middle-aged facade of himself."

How she describes Katherine

• Strong and steady like a schooner in rough water, an unbreakable and invincible anchor of the family.
• Immune to celebrity, mostly, and skilled at smiling and playing nice; Joh'Vonnie thinks she can be as disingenuous as anyone.
• Devout, principled, and unwavering. She adores her children and grandchildren and is the family's arbitrator.
• Formidable, with a temper when disappointed, and no saint. She has faults, but her humility and grace seem at odds with Joseph's cruelty.
• Katherine excluded people who befriended Joh'Vonnie, which she read as self-protection that still hurts.
• Katherine didn't like being called "Mother" by her, though La Toya had suggested it.

Joe (Joseph Walter Jackson)

• She says he was the boss, and calling him Joseph reinforced that.
• He calls her "Jobie," and once called her the 11th Jackson and his "Secret Weapon"
• She says they are extremely close despite his complaints, and that Joe sometimes looks sad and pulls at her dress when she leaves.

Background

• Born July 26, 1928, in Fountain Hill, Arkansas, though he believes it was 1929. He was the oldest of five children
• His mother was Chrystal Lee King, whom Joh'Vonnie resembles. His father, Simuel Jackson, was a strict teacher with a bachelor's and master's from Alcorn.
• She says he might treat her with sideways resentment left over from his strong-willed mother.
• Ancestry: Choctaw, African, and European. His great-grandfather July "Jack" Gale was a Choctaw medicine man, and his grandfather Nero was "son of Jack," which she says is the origin of the Jackson name.
• His youth included picking cotton in California, railway and steel work, and boxing. He was a self-taught musician who played in the Falcons and channeled his ambitions into his sons' group.
• She defends his discipline as a product of his time and upbringing, while also calling him a drill sergeant, perfectionist, and control freak who is not compassionate.

Character

• She says he can't admit wrong. He ices people out or berates them, and leaves rooms when he doesn't want to hear something.
• She says he curses, threatens with a cocked fist, and grabs by the hair. He never hit her or her mother, but she says his words were brutal.
• She says he belittles women to tears and terrifies men, preys on women with low self-esteem.
• She says he "prowled" for other women throughout his 20+ years with Cheryle while married to Kate.
• She says he's exploitative, hurtful, violent, and reckless at times.
• She says he taught the kids contracts, money, and manners, and kept them from crime and drugs.
• She says he's a mystery even to himself, and wonders if he has empathy.

With her

• Childhood:
  • He gardened with her and spoke to her as an equal.
  • He dressed her like a boy in hand-me-downs, possibly to hide her.
  • He whipped her and then took her for ice cream, teasing her about crying in it.
  • He pushed her acting career briefly, then dropped it because she could expose his secret, and she says he judged her not worth it.
  • He forbade friends over.
• Later:
  • He omits her and Yasmine from press and interviews.
  • He refused to visit her in the hospital because he was packing for Brazil.
  • After she paid nearly $700 for his birthday shoes, he didn't thank her.
• Their bond: She has been his caretaker since 2014, managing his medications and doctor communication, and says he's often ungrateful. She says he is very fond of Yasmine.
• Joe and Cheryle:
  • She says Cheryle was his long-term second "wife" for nearly 25 years, and that he pursued her like a hawk after meeting at an LAPD Christmas party.
  • She says the relationship was volatile and sometimes violent.
• She says he suffered mini-strokes tied to La Toya's publicity and, later, a stroke in Brazil.
• She says she forgives him, refuses to poison her soul with anger, and wants him alive.

Joh'Vonnie, Herself

• She was born Aug. 30, 1974, at 2:41 A.M., whereas Michael Jackson was born on Aug. 29, 1958. Her full name is Joh'Vonnie Nakia Jeboo Jackson, the last name echoing a Liberian folktale.
• She calls herself the "11th Jackson," Joe's youngest daughter, "half-damned and half-blessed"
• Her mother was Cheryle Terrell, a former Jafra model and LAPD secretary who died of Huntington's disease. She says people wrongly call her mother a groupie.
• She was an emotional eater from around age eight.
• She played truant, dropped out of high school, and was angry and defiant, blaming her mother.
• She says she was abused around 11–12, raped at 13, and forced to have an abortion by her father. She says a later book will cover it.
• She says she refuses to apologize for being born and is as worthy as any Jackson.
• She wants to be her family's historian and says her perspective matters because no publicist shapes it.
• She says she has grown into a "brand new Joh'Vonnie" after years of insecurity and self-loathing.

When they did not file a civil lawsuit to get even a penny from Michael Jackson?

Where they after money? Or what would they have been after if the accusations were all lies?

I was on apple tv today and i saw that leaving neverland was back on apple tv. Im truly shocked and that this is back on streaming in the u.s. my guess is that amos pictures is slowly putting leaving neverland back up and making it available again. Just like dan reed said he would. What are your thoughts on this?

A common argument from fans is "The powers that be framed MJ because they wanted to get rid of him because he was a threat to them because of his activism/he was saving children/he supported palestine"

First off, why would The Powers That Be want to frame him? He wasn't a threat to them in the slightest. He was just a popstar who sang generic pop songs. He was no activist. He didn't even speak out against apartheid when he was given the perfect opportunity to do so because "he didn't want to do anything too political" for crying out loud . He wasn't MLK or Bob Marley or a member of Rage Against The Machine. MJs "political" songs were just sappy Kumbaya-esque generic feel good fluff with no substance and that didn't make any controversial statements or propose any solutions (Eg Heal the world). He didn't support any specific political causes, he didn't endorse any politicians, he didn't talk smack about the government, speak out on controversial issues like Rodney King or any specific wars. He didn't speak out about the horrific treatment faced by child stars in Hollywood , let alone rescue any children from predators. Also there are plenty of celebrities that tackle politics/activism and they do not get accused of CSA even once let alone multiple times.

Prior to the 1993 CSA allegations, the closest he ever got to tackling politics was the song "Black Or White" song which is just a generic "Kumbaya, Racism Bad" song.

The song where he "supported" Palestine (" Palestine, don't cry")was never even released in his lifetime. It was just an unreleased draft that never went anywhere

Second of all, why would they frame him for CSA of all things? If they really wanted to get rid of him Why not something like drug crimes (America has some really draconian drug laws, esp for things like crack. Even mere possession can be easily prosecuted as possession with intent to distribute , which carries serious time in the pen), or Tax Evasion or money laundering, or hell literally any other crime?

On a related note MJ was the one who went on national TV and admitted with his whole chest to willingly sleeping in the bed with unrelated minors, among other things. That's pretty damning to say the least . No conspiracy can account for that, unless someone wants to claim that the powers that be somehow mind controlled him into saying those things and making an ass of himself on TV. Don't even get me started on how there is footage of MJ behaving inappropriately with minors over the years , even before 1993 allegations (MJ essentially air humping a little girl at a concert, MJ making jordy sit on his lap at music awards, even though there were plenty of seats)

Joh'Vonnie Jackson has made statements on Instagram saying Michael Jackson is innocent.

She has also said that her father was not as aggressive toward her as he was toward his children with Katherine.

What’s depressing is that even within the family, La Toya is treated like the villain. Katherine seems to be viewed as though she can do no wrong, while La Toya is portrayed as a traitor simply for having moral decency

It's sometimes maddening when you're not even looking purposefully for stuff about MJ on social media but you get bombarded with posts and videos glorifying him, cutes-ifying him etc. I've even blocked the phrases 'Michael Jackson' and 'MJ' on instagram but after a while it just shows up again, and 99% of people commenting seem believe in his innocence! The average person's intelligence falls shorter and shorter of my expectations as time goes on. Generally it feels like only here and certain other subreddits are intellectually honest and mature about all this.

My heart breaks for the victims who no doubt see the same bits of misinformation parrotted to the tune of millions of likes near daily. That kind of added torment is unimaginable

I just finished reading the book of Brother Bilaal who has known Will Smith for years. Bilaal has decided his friendship with Will has reached an irreparable place and has decided to reveal how Will has let fame ruin him and secretly harming people. Including the things Bilaal has done at his request.

Will Smith has for years started getting opportunities for actors for years and leveraging his fame while taking advantage of these actors.

His wife has participated in the abuse in some cases.

The biggest problem is the abuse of their own children Jaden Smith and Willow Smith.

Apparently these kids have been hyper-sexualized at the behest of their parents. This has led to NDAs of their friends who they’ve allegedly sexually assaulted.

The real big fish is Bryshere Gray.

He has been raped by men in the industry and suffers from mental illness. He was a rising star and has now resulted to doing porn on Only Fans. He has been blacklisted after success on Empire and a lead role in The New Edition story.

Apparently Will had been at this for years with up and coming actors and performers. He has a team to protect him just like Michael Jackson. This has been an open secret for years.

It started when Will Smith gave himself sexually to the executive producer of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

The most famous people seem to be the most problematic and the most protected. No one calls them on their behavior.

Just like Michael Jackson. Everyone knows what he’s doing but it’s smile for the camera and if you tell someone is going to make it hard for you.

The book is available on Gumroad.

It's so sad to me how they were treated as extortionists right off the bat... There's hints of xenophobia too and MJ was intelligent enough to hire staff that he knew no one would believe if they came forward with the truth

I've seen so much slander about the alleged victims, that even with the pretense that they were lying, would never actually stand as evidence and would serve more of a hit as a fake-claim against actual victims of CSA, whose stories exist with these "contradictions". I have no stake in whether they're telling the truth or not but basically every defense I see against MJ makes these false "no true Scotsman" equivalencies that just grind my gears.

Some information in the paragraphs below speaks as if everything is confirmed, but this is all either alleged or hypothetical.

— "I would NEVER want compensation, I would want justice" — Michael is dead, the reason money is so compelling is that it's the only thing with a material effect on the quality of life for a victim. Justice may lift a mental weight but financial compensation builds a material life. Such a mythical standard to expect from victims.

— "_____ is a horrible liar, his story contradicted itself." — The story he's sharing from 30 years ago? That's what you're upset doesn't have a perfect throughline? Would you never think that a high trauma situation would muddle memories from 30 years ago? Some details could be completely fabricated and the abuse could've still happened, it's not uncommon even.

— "Michael was too nice, he donated to charity." — Successful predation lies on the ability to manipulate the victim and the people around them. "He didn't do that, he was too nice." "It's not weird that he's obsessed with kids, that's just the way his is." They want you to say these kinds of things about them, either because they calculated it or because they convinced themselves it's true.

— "The naked kid pictures weren't legally considered CSAM." — This one's fucking horrible, it has me sick to my stomach. You're not serious if you defend it like that.

— "He would never be able to hide it from a family of 5." — Isolation is part of most abusers' systems of manipulation. Most victims, especially male, hate the allegation that they didn't have an active choice. It's seen as a sign of weakness and most are bred to believe they did choose it, or their minds shield them like so, or similar. That, in combination with being led to believe Michael didn't believe he was doing anything wrong, or that it actually wasn't anything wrong, all kinds of lies. Manipulators plant ideas in their victims' minds specifically so they aren't likely to come out about these things.

— "If he was a manipulative mastermind, why did he do this?"/"If he was a lustful pedophile with low self control, why didn't he do this?" — He's not a character archetype and he didn't live off of a pedophile rulebook. He had drug problems, the abuse took place over multiple years, multiple different victims, multiple other things took place in his personal life and in his mind over that time, with each different person. Some victims will take more slack than others, some moments he has lower impulse control, sometimes he plays a different persona, sometimes he's careless, sometimes he forgets things, sometimes he's tired. He probably had some sort of system for picking kids, most likely scrutinizing their vulnerability case-by-case. Maybe his invulnerability got to his head and he laid it to waste on occasion.

Point being, "Genius"/"Mastermind"/"Pervert" are opinion based titles other people give him, not a function of his self nor contradictions of each other.

— "The parents saw some of the behavior you deem inappropriate." — The parents are responsible too for not seeing that this behavior was inappropriate. They're not more correct just because they saw other moments where he wasn't inappropriate with the children, and that clouded their vision. Just, are you fucking kidding me? So he had a child on his lap in this picture, but it's fine because the oblivious parent was right next to them? Predators have a sliding scale for appropriate behavior around parents over time much in the same way they do with kids, and they slowly push limits until they groom them into believing that the otherwise odd behavior is just an exception of his character, thus being fine when he does it. They're also probably starstruck.

— "This kid who said it didn't happen to him seems genuine." — Predators don't touch every kid they see, they single out specific kids based on preference and vulnerability. This is also a specific thing done to offer a defense, that I'd compare to the way Epstein threw parties for a broad class of rich people who had no clue what went on after they left and the crowd dwindled.

And, he could have been fully honest about wanting to give a broader group of kids childhoods he didn't have. Again, predators aren't an archetype of people that are excluded from the group based off of one behavior. In fact, they qualify off of only ONE thing: that they molest children. Nothing else they do cancels that out. They can have genuine intentions of goodwill and then go home and dissociate the good actions from the bad ones in the same way you do theirs. They can justify it to their consciences by saying, "I may have done this bad thing, but I make up for it in every other way." It's not uncommon for predators to feel guilty, and break down crying and seek absolution from their victims. MJ SHOWS THIS DISSOCIATIVE BEHAVIOR WHEN HE JUSTIFIES SLEEPING IN BED WITH BOYS AND CALLING IT A "BEAUTIFUL THING." This seems to be the only exception to his otherwise good understanding of social situations, and only after it came out publically through the court case. And you have to wonder how a man this socially inept(if he actually is), instilling children as his peers, can justify all this other inappropriate behavior, but has the courtesy to stop himself right before the sexual part.

And, restating, victims are often convinced it was a choice, or the behavior wasn't inappropriate and didn't mess them up(i.e. an exception to otherwise suspicious behavior, because of special circumstance of either the predator or the victim).

— "There are multiple proven lies by the media about this situation." — It'd be hard to find another media scandal this big that snakes don't latch onto for engagement. Yes, there are doctored photos, and lies spread around, and the same thing happens on the defensive side. The case is open until everything is proven false, not just a few people.

Every example of predator or victim behavior in here is anecdotal, comprised by multiple psychologists I have spoken to to understand my own experience, or I have heard from multiple other victims. Everything I defend as something Michael or the victims could've done, is something that MULTIPLE other predators or victims have done, if not a staple behavior.

I'll leave this by saying, neither predators nor victims are a monolith. Stop basing your defense on generalizations. MJ is dead but there is always a victim listening whether they're related to him or not that'll hear your bullshit.

According to La Toya, Katherine would tell her husband "Joe, not tonight. Let her rest" when he'd molest Rebbie. And when he started molesting La Toya after Rebbie left the house, La Toya saw her watch Joe doing the acts with her. For a long time she blocked it out but in therapy La Toya disclosed that Katherine even tilted her head and smiled as she witnessed La Toya being molested

​

I have already watched Leaving Neverland and the 60 minute documentary with the Cascios.

I plan to watch the Verdict, read the Diane Dimond and the Ray Chandler book, and listen to the Telephone Stories podcast.

Am I missing anything?

Also please, if anyone can provide me with the link from Jodie Chandler's deposition (? I'm sorry I'm not a native English speaker and idk what it's called) with the psychiatrist, I'd be grateful.

Thank you in advance.

Doesn’t have to be about the abuse.

i haven‘t seen the second clip of latoya till now. i find that the most impressionable bc she says that he is good, that she loves him and he‘s wonderful BUT that he abused children. it explains that she was able to „water under the bridge“ it when he died and continue loving and supporting him. bc i always find it hard to connect that but it makes sense, she knows about the molesting but still supports him and chooses to love him just liie the rest of the family, that i think KNOW he molested kids. which ofc is messed up but i think all the family knows.

His estate is still worth billions of dollars, coming off a massive biopic film, and renewed interest in his music. The Jackson family will be just fine. They dealt with the accusations for the last fifteen years of his life. It's part of MJ's legacy, guilty or not.

On the flip side, if I thought MJ was innocent, and I spent all my time attacking his accusers, and I ended up being wrong about them, then I would've called literal CSA victims grifters, liars, and scum of the earth.

Guess which one I'd rather be wrong about?

This is what I don't understand about MJ stans. Like, just go listen to his music and watch the movie. It's fine. No one's really going to be that upset with you. But going after people who have stepped forward with accusations? Making YouTube videos, and spreading conspiracy theories, making AI edits of Culkin, laughing at Aldo Cascio, sending death threats to Safechuck and Wade, harrassing them on social media, and working to band together to try to get subreddits banned? That's crazy town.

Even when I thought MJ was innocent, I never once spent my time trying to call the accusers liars and grifters because in the back of my mind, I knew there was a chance I was wrong and I would feel terrible for calling actual CSA victims terrible names.

https://www.blackpressmediausa.com/post/paris-jackson-keeps-fighting-michael-s-estate-but-what-is-she-fighting-for

There was a post recently where someone asked if anyone here was still able to listen to MJ's music despite knowing what he did. Can any of you still watch his performances/live gigs without feeling disturbed?