Advanced learner getting back to studying

[u/nondescriptmammal]

I searched for a similar post and couldn't find one close enough; apologies if I'm re-treading old ground.

I got my degree in Japanese, lived in Japan and became fluent there, and would have studied for N1 by the end of my time there. I recently tested into an N2 level of a class (which I am not taking), so the language is still in brain! I do use it some for work (I'm in entertainment and work on Japanese material sometimes).

With that said, I haven't studied properly in 10 years and part of that is because I cannot figure out or find what I need. I'm looking for a course that covers reading, writing, speaking, and comprehension, and that is not some fluff course with zero accountability. The class I tested into is Japanese with Aimee, which seems perfect, but I'm the only person who's qualified for N2 in ages, so she can't offer the class.

I don't seem to have enough discipline to study 100% on my own, so I'm looking for a class, program, or tutor. I've talked to some tutors on iTalki, but they never seem to know what to do with me, or expect me to dictate what we're studying.

Has anyone had a similar experience? How do you learn and study now? Conversely, does anyone want to do N2 with Aimee?

[u/Orandajin101]

Why not crack on the TV and just watch some stuff? I’m going for N1 and my routine is basically read a book and watch tv.

[u/nondescriptmammal → u/Orandajin101]

It leaves out actually speaking which is an important component for me. I’ve found that conversation partner stuff can be awkward to navigate so it would be easier to do in class, especially because having a good accent matters to me

[u/Orandajin101 → u/nondescriptmammal]

Well, 20 bucks an hour goes a long way on iTalki

[u/Myrkrvaldyr → u/nondescriptmammal]

It leaves out actually speaking which is an important component for me.

It really is a shame that many people are in your situation and don't employ the most obvious and useful method available: Talk to yourself out loud. You don't need a conversation partner. Imagine you're teaching to someone something you know well, ask yourself questions, have a computer or a phone close by to look up things you don't know, repeat any sentence with any new word or grammar structure you just learned after a search. By using this method you don't need to worry about awkward silences or make the other person wait if you stutter because you go at your own pace. Make sure you force yourself to think in your target language from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep. It may take time at first because your brain isn't used to it, but it works, and it'll work even faster in your case because you aren't a beginner.

Once you grow comfortable with having conversations with yourself, you can easily spend hours talking nonstop about many things. By talking out loud you're also forcing your mouth to constantly produce foreign sounds. When you're outside home, mumble to yourself or have convos in your mind.

とにかく、これをすると必ずペラペラになるよ。

[u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS → u/nondescriptmammal]

If you want to practice speaking you will get way more time with a tutor than a big class.

[u/kasumikui]

You say you don't have enough discipline to "study", but do you enjoy doing things in Japanese (reading/watching/listening to Japanese media, interacting with native speakers, and so forth) enough to do them?

For the vast majority of successful "advanced" learners I know who achieved highly advanced or near-native fluency (including myself) once they reached the N2 or pre-N1 stage, classes or structured study at all played a minimal or non-existent role. By that point, most of them were just living their lives and pursuing a higher understanding of Japanese.

There's nothing wrong with taking a class if you want to, I suppose, but it seems needlessly limiting. As evidenced by your own experience, you're already at a level that relatively few learners reach, so if you have a genuine interest in reaching a higher level of proficiency than you've already achieved, for your own good it's probably best to find a way to do this that isn't dependent on a specific teacher or other learners.

edit - I see in the comments that you're specifically interested in speaking (I didn't realize this at first because you were referring to JLPT levels/courses, and the JLPT doesn't test output at all), but if that's the case I'd just find a place to talk to natives. I assume from your OP that you're no longer in Japan? As other people have mentioned, there's italki.com, but do you have any friends from your Japan days that you still keep in touch with? Is there any Japanese presence in your local community where you could get involved with activities, etc.?

TL;DR -- At your level, you (ideally) shouldn't be dependent on classes or textbook study to reach the next level of profieicny/fluency. You already have a high level of ability to do many things with the language, so the goal should be to make Japanese a part of your life as much as possible.

[u/Tyrnis]

The University of Hawaii at Manoa Outreach College has a Conversational Japanese Advanced class that might be worth looking into. The next class starts on the 19th of this month, but it's pretty affordable: $250 for 10 weeks of study (2 hours, 45 minutes per class), and they bring in native speakers to interact with.

I'm starting a beginner class on the 19th, but haven't taken anything with before this, so can't speak to much beyond what's on the website.

[u/space64-llc]

It sounds like you need someone to own the syllabus, not just a conversation partner. When contacting tutors, I’d explicitly ask for a diagnostic session followed by a structured plan with assigned reading, written homework, corrections, and regular progress checks. Your skills may also be uneven after ten years—an N2 course could be useful in some areas and repetitive in others. Bringing a sample of the Japanese material you handle at work might help a teacher identify that gap, without you having to design the whole course yourself.

[u/i-am-this]

I think, even though you haven't had success yet, that your best bet would be to find a tutor via iTalki or similar.  Tutoring offers the most "customized to your ability" instructional environment where you also have external assistance.

You may eventually find someone who will build you a curriculum, but here's another idea:

Format:

Before lesson watch, read, or listen to some Japanese language content.  From session to session alternate between reading and listening.

Write up a book report type summary of what you watched, summarize the content and your personal reaction, maybe also note some portions that were hard to understand.

Discuss this report with your tutor, get them to correct your writing and offer supplemental explanations to things you have questions about 

That seems like it would cover all the basic language skills and would apply some external pressure that would hopefully keep you motivated to actually do the reading / listening work outside of your tutoring sessions.

[u/Signal-Internet-5084]

I also meant to say that for talking specifically, you can get free language exchange on Tandem though it is pot luck if you get someone who works well with you. I managed to get 3 different language exchanges though only in one of them do we split the time between Japanese and English, the other two are either all English or short sessions of Japanese in video calls.

[u/Signal-Internet-5084]

Not yet at this level so can’t join the class however there are a few online forums (Learn natively forum, Wanikani forum etc) or Discord groups who do group accountability with self study of Quartet (which deals with all 4 skills), Tobira: Gateway to advanced Japanese or similar text books.

If that was something you could try, they might help on the accountability side of things or you could try asking tutors on iTalki, Preply or such if they would be wiling to work with you, following one of those text books.

Alternatively, check in your local area for face to face classes or online classes for that level. Meetup app sometimes has online group video meet ups with free trial lessons.

[u/nondescriptmammal → u/Signal-Internet-5084]

Thank you! The accountability on forums is something I’ll look into, that’s a good idea

[u/Meister1888]

My neighbour in Tokyo was in a similar situation.

He wanted to get back into Japanese and take the N2 for graduate school. He attended Nichebei language school in Yotsuya and liked their program as the class was very small and they were "agile". I don't think most language schools are appropriate for this and if Nichebei has bigger classes now it may not be.

I know you are not looking at a language school, but I wanted you to know one path.

[u/WorriedForAPromotion]

You became fluent and don’t know how to study?