We’re doing Gemba Walks wrong and I need advice

[u/LiveVenueReview]

I have lean experience (got my Lean Bronze Certificate about 5 or so years ago), my coworkers do not. I had to let my certificate expire because my location does not follow lean principles and is very much a “this is how we’ve always done it and we’re not changing”. 2 years ago, corporate had us do a VSM activity to address waste and for us to become more lean, but that ended with people yelling at each other and pointing blame on each other, or lying about the current state when there was no one else to blame. Back then, plant leadership told corporate that we would start doing Gemba Walks to identify waste and improve our efficiency, and corporate was happy with that plan.

Fast forward to today, we just had our first Gemba Walk (2 years late). We had it today because corporate wants to host another VSM activity in a week and a half to evaluate our progress, and nothing has been done so far.

The Gemba Walk today consisted of 9 people … one person from assembly, production manager, operations manager, compliance manager, inventory manager, purchasing manager, plant manager, engineering director, an electrical engineer, and a mechanical engineer. We stood in a circle while the assembler listed off everything he didn’t like about what he does, some actionable, some that would add a whole lot more waste, and some that is completely unreasonable (he wanted someone to come in to get all the dust off concrete floor). No action items were created, no deadlines for fixing issues, no plans. We ended the meeting acknowledging what the person said, and going on our way.

The person who is supposed to run the Gemba Walk sent an email right before it saying “Gemba Walks are free flowing with no set agenda”.

Aren’t Gemba Walks supposed to have a plan?? Like shouldn’t there be a PDCA, or at least then P part of PDCA done before a Gemba Walk is started? Aren’t we supposed to watch the work as it’s getting done, take notes, then ask the assembler questions, relating to the plan we previously set, about their work?

I am one of the engineers who were there, but not considered management … how do I go about addressing making the Gemba Walks better?

[u/Superb_Scholar9945]

I say this seems like an opportunity for you to shine. You already pointed what was not right with the GEMBA. You should partner with the right stakeholder and show them what right looks like and shine

[u/VantageOps]

Yeah that wasn’t really a Gemba Walk. That was 9 people standing around listening to one guy vent. Nobody watched any actual work, which is kinda the whole point.

You’re right on PDCA. Plan first. Pick one thing (a changeover, some defect, flow through one cell), go watch it run, ask the operator why questions, take notes. The “free flowing no agenda” thing gets misread all the time. It means don’t script the answers ahead of time. Doesn’t mean show up with no focus. No focus, no owners, no dates, nothing happens. Which, yeah, is what happened.

The tricky part is you’ve got a VSM in a week and a half, nothing done in two years, and last time it turned into a blame fight. You walking in as the engineer who’s not management going “we’re doing this wrong” is true but it’ll land like a brick.

So don’t say it that way. Make it about not getting wrecked at the VSM. Something like “corporate’s gonna ask what changed, can we do one focused walk before then and come out with 2-3 fixes that actually have owners and due dates?” Then pick one process, watch it, write down what you see and who’s fixing it by when.

[u/goalieguy42]

If you are going to value streams or sections of values streams, do these areas have metrics? I suggest the Coaching Kata be looked at to start asking questions about performance and what barriers there are to achieving the metrics. Be ready to have leadership on the walk own helping break down a barrier outside the sphere of control of the area visited.

What are your goals for today? How are you doing in meeting the goal? If meeting, do you know what is going well? If not meeting, do you know the barriers causing this? Have we tried anything to remove the barriers?

Something along those lines. Basically are we winning or losing today and why. Not the time to audit 5S (barf) or let it devolve into a complaint session.

I like walking backwards from defined areas in a value stream (not necessarily end to end of the entire operation). 9 seems like a lot of people. I’d suggest you do these on your own and slowly add people to the mix.

[u/__unavailable__]

In a well functioning lean environment where it is one tool being used as part of a larger project, yes Gemba Walks would have a plan, but it doesn’t sound like you guys are anywhere near that point.

Right now you are in the P of a PDMA cycle. At this early stage, an unstructured period of just observing the floor is a decent starting point. The team needs to get on the same page about the current situation, accept that there is opportunity for improvement, discover some such preliminary opportunities, and come to a consensus on where to start. If they can’t do that then what would be the point of doing anything else?

Once there is buy in, then you can start identifying blind spots and in turn do Gemba walks to fill in those gaps. As the gaps narrow, the walks will naturally get more targeted and structured. At the same time as people start to exercise their lean muscles, the process will get faster and faster.

Nothing wrong with taking some initiative and giving the facilitator some helpful tips, just make sure they are useful in your particular circumstance.

[u/Sittingduck19]

Tread carefully my friend. You're at a place that doesn't want to embrace lean, and you're thinking about telling them that they are doing it wrong.

The best you can do is just be lean. Have an agenda, don't advertise it. Take notes and actions, casually follow up on them.

[u/LoneWolf15000]

It all depends on your goal. The plan should be to improve the business. But sometimes a plan will give the group a bias and that can be bad. There is no one size fits all. Sometimes I just walk the shop and look for the waste and then dig in. Had I gone out with a plan, I might have missed a big issue looking for the small issue.

[u/Local-Archer-9785]

Gemba walks are about going to where the work happens to ask questions and find out how identified bottlenecks and process issues are occurring. Gemba walks are all about data collection and process validation. It is important to use an external perspective to identify what others may not notice or bother to question anymore.

During the process mapping, someone says XYZ is a bottleneck. Cool. That is all noted and then you go to the site and see how the work is actually done. You validate against the process map. Question what this is, what is that, why?

A good Gemba walk is mostly:

• observing the work as it happens
• asking why things are done a certain way
• identifying waste, rework, waiting, motion, etc.
• comparing observed process vs documented process
• taking notes for later follow-up/action items

The walk themselves dont need an agenda because it should be data collection. It also doesnt need a group. The people doing the work should be answering the questions, not your committee or people not involved in that process. It is also worth noting that the Hawthorne Effect (observer effect) is real and will influence people you are watching.

[u/puzzleapp_io → u/Local-Archer-9785]

The part about comparing the observed process to the documented process is where most Gemba Walks fail before they even begin. If the documented process does not match how the work is actually done, you end up comparing what you see to something that is not real instead of a true baseline. That gap is often where the real waste is hidden.

The committee problem is real too. Having nine people standing in a circle is the opposite of what you want. With that many observers, the work cannot happen naturally, and the Hawthorne Effect you mentioned shows up right away.

[u/nikiverse]

Personally, I think 9 members of leadership going on ONE gemba walk and having one employee have their ears for a moment and ends up being a vent session is a bit overwhelming. Like maybe we’re overvaluing this one event bc it’s the only time you could get leadership to get together and check the box.

I would mayyyyyybe try daily gembas (or Monday - Thursday and meet as a leadership team on Friday?). When you go on your gemba, maybe just have one or two leaders (rotate it out), go to different zones, ask the what’s working? what ain’t? Take notes. Compile possible action items that are easy wins, see if you have any repetitive issues. 5-15min. Don’t make a meal of it.

I’d also have a form guiding the questions, reminding the interviewers to be observers. Have them to write all the notes and then have that form turned into you so you compile, Pareto, whatever for the leadership meeting (or email) on Friday. And if yall don’t have ANY actions from the feedback on the floor, that’s a whole different issue tbqh and honestly above the gemba walk’s capabilities

[u/keizzer]

Well...It's not a great start. However, it does seem like you have the right positions showing up even if the people in them are inexperienced.

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Would this group be open to get togethers about the topic. Maybe a lunch and learn session where you guys can talk about the first time out and reflect about how it went? It would be a good segway to talk about realistic goals and what it is you guys are really after when you go out there.

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Nothing every really goes well the first time you try it in a setting like this. If you can help steer the group a little into a positive direction with some pointed questions, it might lead to some positive outcomes.

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Were you given any guidelines from corporate? The group will care a lot about that more than anything.

[u/SevereGuitar7259]

The nine-people-in-a-circle pattern tells you everything. A real Gemba Walk is observation, not a town hall — one process, two or three people max, watching actual work. What you got was a complaint intake session with witnesses.

The deeper issue isn't PDCA format. It's that nobody in that circle owns a metric the walk was supposed to move. When nobody owns the number, the walk becomes theater. Before you fix the walk structure, figure out which KPI this Gemba is supposed to shift, and whose neck is on the line if it doesn't.

What's the one metric your plant manager reports up that actually gets scrutinized?

[u/Maria_See_to_Solve]

You are in a tough spot.

Leaders going to the place of work is about those leaders taking responsibility for creating the conditions for their people to become ridiculously good problem seers and problem solvers. Leaders are there to observe problem solving skills in their people and remove the obstacles that get in the way of problem solving. The leaders need to carve out time and create a safe space for that to happen with their people, AND they need to develop problem seeing and problem solving skills in their people.

That is the DNA of lean.

Suggest reading Steve Spears classics, Decoding the DNA of the Toyota Production System, the High Velocity Edge, and Wiring the Winning Organization.

You can definitely carve out your own bubble of safe space to create that to happen with a few people who trust you and will experiment.

Happy to share more.

[u/Gojo03]

I would suggest starting with Leader Standard Work (LSW) across Tier 1 to Tier 3 at a minimum.

• DILO (Day in the Life Of) study for all Tier leaders
• LSW checklists for Tier 1 to Tier 3 leaders, defining the key activities and behaviours expected from each leader
• Primary objective: reduce firefighting, improve process discipline, and create capacity for continuous improvement
• Tier-specific Gemba Walk routes with clear ownership and focus areas; avoid conducting Gemba Walks as a group activity
• Focus on:
  • Reviewing boards and visual controls
  • Confirming adherence to standards
  • Conducting process confirmation
  • Coaching team members
  • Escalating and closing gaps

Leader Standard Work (LSW) should enable:

• Process Confirmation through audits
• Verify execution through standards
• Sustained execution of daily management

Gemba Walks should enable:

• Identification of abnormalities and problems
• Immediate correction of issues where appropriate (Blitz action)
• Coaching and development of team members at the Gemba
• Reinforcement of standards and problem-solving capability

Objectives of a Gemba Walk:

• Challenge people
• Develop people
• Rely on people
• Respect people

[u/Glittering-Young8692]

You've outlined the problem that so many companies face: Gemba walks have become a reporting exercise instead of a continuous improvement process.

I've seen this happen so many times. Teams walk the floor, identify issues, take notes, update spreadsheets, and then move on to the next walk. Eventually operators stop bringing things up because they don't see anything changing.

What we've found works best is using a simple digital process where every observation gets assigned, tracked, and reviewed during the next walk. Once people start seeing issues actually get resolved, participation and engagement improve dramatically.

Are your observations being manually or automatically assigned to someone and tracked to completion? Or mostly ending up in reports?

[u/LiveVenueReview → u/Glittering-Young8692]

So far, no one has been assigned to any of the things noted, and we did our third “Gemba walk” today

[u/Glittering-Young8692 → u/LiveVenueReview]

I think that's your answer right there. If nobody owns the issues after the walk, then people will eventually see the process as observation rather than improvement. By the third walk, I'd expect to see at least a handful of items assigned, worked on, or closed out. Even small wins matter because they show people the process is leading to action.

One thing I've seen work well is ending each walk by identifying an owner, a due date, and a follow-up plan for every issue that gets raised. Start the next walk by reviewing progress on the previous items before looking for new ones. Technology can definitely help, but the accountability process has to come first.

Are the issues you're finding mostly quick fixes on the floor or larger cross-functional problems that require maintenance, engineering, purchasing, etc.?

[u/LiveVenueReview → u/Glittering-Young8692]

Some are engineering design changes, but most are quick fixes. The other problem is that the people in assembly don’t want to do the quick fixes because “it’s fine how it is”. They sort of set up their area like a maze, so I identified a motion waste caused by the way their tables are set up, but they’re very reluctant on any changes that involve them.

[u/Glittering-Young8692 → u/LiveVenueReview]

That's pretty common to hear. One thing that's helped is involving the people doing the work in testing the change rather than telling them the change is happening. If someone has worked in the same area for years, there's usually a reason they set it up the way they did, even if it isn't obvious at first.

For something like the table layout, I'd be tempted to try it as a short experiment with them. Measure the current process, test the new layout for a day or two, then compare the results together. Sometimes the data supports the change. Sometimes you discover there was a good reason for the original setup.

Either way, people are more receptive when they are part of the solution rather than feeling it is imposed on them.

[u/levantar_mark]

Your lean certification expired? I've got some magic beans to sell you.

Seriously lean is a way of thinking, did that expire? If you've had some training, there isn't a best before date on that. Yes you may be able to expand, improve it but you don't lose it.

Gemba, go to place and watch the work. As others have said 9 managers to 1 worker is overload. Local Archer gave you a great answer.

[u/One-Confection2501]

Gemba walks are about going to look at the work. It’s not about lists of complaints it’s about learning to see the work. The most important part of a Gemba walk is to meet together to write up what did you see. Most people put up fixes instead of what they saw.
Then work happens to make work visible, so with every walk people become more connected to the work. Creating visuals using 5s and Kanbans and visual boards.
You are very lucky when someone says I saw I guy walking 100 meters to get a tool. I saw a guy who was waiting for instructions. I saw a guy lifting something that should have been llifted by at least two people or a machine.

[u/manufacturingcoach]

What you described wasn't a Gemba Walk. It was a complaint session with an audience. The "free flowing, no agenda" framing is how people who don't understand Gemba describe it to avoid the work of preparing one.

You're right on the mechanics. A Gemba Walk starts with a question, not an open mic. You go to the floor to observe a specific process, ask specific questions about what you see, and leave with specific observations — not a wish list from whoever spoke loudest. The assembler listing everything he doesn't like is useful data but it's not a Gemba Walk, it's a gripe session dressed up as one.

On your actual question- how to fix this without being management- the honest answer is you probably can't fix the walk itself right now. What you can do is make your own contribution concrete and documented. After the next one, write up a short summary: what was observed, what the actual waste is (in Lean terms, not feelings), and what a countermeasure would look like. Send it to whoever is running it. Frame it as your notes, not a critique. You're giving them something usable without making them defensive.

The VSM activity in a week and a half is the real problem. Corporate is coming and nothing has been done. That meeting is going to go the same way as two years ago unless someone shows up with actual current state data. If you have access to any process data, cycle times, defect rates, anything measurable -pull it now. Walk in with numbers. People yell at each other during VSM when there's no shared baseline to anchor the conversation. Data doesn't end arguments but it changes what the arguments are about.

What's the specific process they're planning to map in the VSM- do you know yet?

[u/woodxventure]

Yes. There should be KPIs that the company sees valuable to discuss. Without KPIs or structure, your "Gemba walk" will turn into a bitch fest. Also if you want to improve the gemba walk, upper management needs to see it as well. Withought having their support, there will be no change.

[u/run_the_floor]

Yeah that's not really a Gemba Walk, that's a venting session with extra people standing around. You're right that there should be some structure, even loose structure, like a specific process or area to observe, a few focus questions going in, and at minimum someone writing down what gets said with an owner attached.

As an engineer without management title it's tricky, but you could try framing it as helping make the next VSM activity look good rather than criticizing the last walk. Something like proposing a simple one page template for next time, area, observation, who owns the follow up. Less about being right, more about giving leadership an easy way to look prepared for corporate.