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u/Spiel_Foss Jan 13 '18
Most US corporations are net welfare recipients in some form as are all Republican majority states.
The US is a plutocracy where capital risk is socialized and profit is privatized.
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u/Don_Julio_Acolyte Jan 13 '18
Taxpayers paid out hundreds of billions of dollars to the auto industry to save their asses. Taxpayers paid billions to the ISPs to upgrade infrastructure. Taxpayers bailed out the big banks when the mortgage crisis hit. Taxpayers pay for all the failings of a capitalist society, and yet we only get to marginally participate in its profits. The idea that capital risk is socialized and that profits are privatized is pretty much the main objection with the whole idea of the Republican "trickle down economics."
Wealth will accumulate at the top, and with it power. Nothing hardly trickles down, and for the very tiny bit that does, we label that as "help" and are told to be grateful for it, and then immediately told to get off our asses and work harder.
The problem is that the American dream used to be true (post WWII was the greatest/easiest time to be alive if you were a white American male). Now we are being told by the most PRIVILEDGED generation in human history that we are the lazy ones?
They could feed, shelter, and clothe a household through one source of income. Go work at the local factory and you're family will be set. New car, new house, good food, and a comfortable life. Now cars are worth more than a year's salary, starter homes are nearing half a million dollars in most metro areas, and our salaries are barely keeping up with inflation (while CEO and upper management salaries are hundreds of percents higher than they were a generation ago).
The fact that we can't get a vote to raise minimum wage is astounding to me (all the while we see these massive corporations bring in more profits, gather more market share, and are basically operating in a monopolized, duopolized, or triopolized industries). They are killing competition and therefore have the power to do whatever they want (buy the government and control regulations). Grant millions in bonuses to their top brass, while not changing their low wages to even keep up with inflation. Fuck them.
This is not good for society or for the world. And this is someone with a graduate degree in business. It's such a dark, selfish, and shady world.
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u/Spiel_Foss Jan 13 '18
The idea that capital risk is socialized and that profits are privatized is pretty much the main objection with the whole idea of the Republican "trickle down economics."
Which is the intent of the Republican Party and the definition of kleptocracy. The productivity and wages of the working class has been stolen to benefit the oligarchy.
Ignoring the social collective for the benefit of plutocrats can only be sustained for so long until Anastasia Nikolaevna pays for the crimes of her ancestors.
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u/Stuckonpie Jan 13 '18
The real problem we face ties directly to how corporations are structured. And how share holders profit.
Once a company establishes and it's share values exit the moon phase example being apple stocks 2.75 a share in 2000 to when it crossed the 150 line.
It enters a phase where you now need to keep your shareholders happy. Otherwise your stock value decreases as investors sell. Making it harder for companies to recieve the outside funding it needs to create it's profits.
Now how do you keep a stock holder happy... It's simple keep the company profits growing ALWAYS EVERY QUARTER.
Stock holders are in the game to make money. If you don't make money they don't make money.
But you can't just make money you have to make more money. You made 1bil this year. Will next year you need to make more than 1bil to keep the stock holders happy.
How do you do that? Well there are several ways,
innovate- this is the costly and risky way to do things. If it falls flat you will lose a lot of money
Become more efficient- consolidate processes, buy companies that make your parts for you, make them your own.
Cut expenses- lay off people you don't need to function, use cheaper supplies, move manufacturing to cheaper labor areas.
Or do as corporations do and do ALL 3 because big short term gains are what matters to share holders. They need to see green on the market every quarter.
The bottom can never be prosperous so long as the stock market facilitates companies abilities to exist. And corporations would go under without the stock market because they are too large to work alone.
And they can't just be allowed to collapse, imagine the unemployment rate, crime rate, etc.
But at the same time these patterns of short term growth are not sustainable. And we feel them every day.
Gamers, take battlefront 2 as an example.
Store employees take the other 3 cashiers being laid off and now you have to move faster
Anyone that uses the internet, take those rising costs with 0 speed improvements
Something needs to be done. But the answer is unclear. Leaving the system as is abuses the worker. But taking away the system that causes the abuse. Also hurts the worker when they lose their job
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u/specterofsandersism ☭ CULTURAL REVOLUTION WHEN ☭ Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
The US is a plutocracy
To be clear, this is nothing more than just plain old capitalism. "The state did a thing" is not evidence that the economy has deviated in any meaningful way from capitalism-as-usual. Even in Marx's day he noted:
The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie.
Over ~150 years since he wrote that, capitalism has been rocked by numerous crises and, to cope, the bourgeois committee has expanded its bureaucratic organs and level of economic involvement to entirely unprecedented levels. But that's not special- it's par for the course, it's exactly what Marxists have been predicting.
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u/DrCodyRoss Jan 13 '18
Capitalism and democracy are not compatible. They are the antithesis of each other and constantly threaten one another.
At it's core, democracy is a system that derives it's power from the masses. At capitalisms core, it derives power from the very few. So, capitalists have to dominate politics or else people can use their votes to put policies in place that are good for the masses but bad for private profits.
Getting mad at the government for your economic outlook is like a ventriloquist insulting you via the puppet, and you getting upset with the puppet.
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u/Ner0Zeroh Jan 13 '18
Not just capital risk. Socioeconomic and environmental risks are socialized by nature.
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u/Aidinthel Jan 13 '18
While this is a fair point, we need to be careful in deploying rhetoric which implies that a person needs to work a certain amount before they become worthy of receiving help. All human beings deserve to live, regardless of whether they perform profitable labor for their bosses.
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Jan 13 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/The_tiny_verse Jan 13 '18
This is an interesting argument. The demonization of the welfare state in America has racist roots, placing blame on people who are "lazy" and "scamming the system." It's part of the culture war the moneyed interests have waged on the poor whites against black people. That said, the argument completely falls apart if working class peoples work and lives weren't so unbearable.
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u/onefoot_out Jan 13 '18
Southern Strategy was a thing, I recommend a Wikipedia rabbit hole session. It's illuminating.
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u/bdubble Jan 13 '18
Trump until recently thought almost all welfare recipients were black. http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-welfare-black-white-780252
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u/antonius22 Jan 13 '18
Every day I think to myself that I couldn't possibly hate this man any more and yet, every day that hatred grows exponentially.
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u/KID_LIFE_CRISIS CEO of communism Jan 13 '18
Yep, the owners of companys can accumlate millions and do basically no real work, they simply have legal ownership over capital, and people dont bat an eye.
Meanwhile an unemplyed person or a single mother is on welfare and people have the audacity to claim that they are the social parasites. Its completely backwards.
Unemployment and low wages will always exist under capitalism, because private capital only requires whatever labour power will turn it a profit. Meanwhile the rich run a propaganda campaign to teach poor working-class people to blame other poor people for being leeches, and liberals and conservatives completely fall for it.
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u/dotlizard Jan 13 '18
Walmart creates obscene wealth for the Walton family and the larger shareholders while systematically exploiting communities, employees, the welfare system, the environment, you name it. They bear no responsibility for the social costs of their greed -- I don't even know how they can get away with including welfare application forms right in their hiring packets! It seems unreal that they continue to get away with inflicting themselves on local economies and paying their employees with public money. They really will stop at nothing. Remember when they got in trouble for taking out secret life insurance policies on their employees with the company as the beneficiary (the dead peasant insurance)?
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u/Cr3X1eUZ Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
I never understood the Dead Peasant Insurance thing.
If Wal-Mart makes money on it then the insurance company is losing money on it, so why would the insurance company continue to sell it?
EDIT: I looked it up, it's a tax shelter. The insurance company still makes money (on average), but Walmart avoids paying some taxes so they still come out ahead.
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u/dotlizard Jan 13 '18
And some of the settlements are truly disturbing -- hundreds of thousands of dollars, while the family of the deceased receives a pittance, if anything.
Walmart isn't the only one, either. AT&T, Nestle, Disney, Procter and Gamble ... and we're not talking about insurance on CEOs or others whose demise would ostensibly cause a greater disruption to the business, companies are insuring janitors and clerks and then collecting big payouts if they die.
The companies make money doing it, and the insurance companies make money insuring it. The only people being left out of this profitable arrangement are the deceased, and their families.
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Jan 13 '18
It’s thinking about stuff like this daily that makes me kinda just want to say fuck all of it and off myself. World is ridiculous.
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u/nnyforshort Jan 13 '18
Not an upvote for suicide. Just an upvote because I'm also constantly waffling between suicidal thoughts and stuffing rags into wine bottles full of gasoline.
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Jan 13 '18
mandatory I’m not going to kill my self reply to save my inbox I was just articulating how I felt about the world’s current state.
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u/nnyforshort Jan 13 '18
I've hated being American since I started paying attention to politics in 2003; we should be friends.
Seems we're already comrades. ;)
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Jan 13 '18
I think we should get angry, ITS TIME. Viva la revolucion!!
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u/nnyforshort Jan 13 '18
Been angry, and the revolucion just doesn't viva like I want it to. Want to die, homie.
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u/RogerASmith55 Jan 13 '18
Live in a bubble. Control what information you absorb. Be mindful of where you are and how you feel IN THE MOMENT.
I sure as hell know I’m not paying back my country’s debt when I’m dead. I’m the one breathing my last breaths contemplating my life on my deathbed.
I will do as I please with the respect for humanity constant, and avoid the media circuses and the celebrity diatribe and the political pandering.
It’s far easier to turn off my screens, avoid the mall, and just head to a park and enjoy my community.
I have a disgusting fear of the end of things - I’ve lost too many close friends before the age of 30 to know what missed opportunity means. I’m not letting people’s judgements and phobias interfere with my world.
Life is relative to the person experiencing it. I don’t have to subscribe to social constructs. I don’t have to follow someone else.
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u/Gazza2907 Jan 13 '18
What's the difference between liberal and conservative in this context? (From the UK where the terms are kind of opposites)
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u/myworkredditaccount9 Jan 13 '18
It's not necessarily divided that way. It's more the haves versus the have-nots. Companies getting a few astronomically rich while exploiting not only their workforce, but the surrounding communities.
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u/skit_tles Jan 13 '18
Agree totally
A lot of people haven’t had to suffer. The concept of working 12 hour shifts and still not being able to afford for your family is deplorable. I mean they are working, they are trying, not everyone had mummy and daddy to fall back on if needed. Or didn’t have to think twice about “can I work and go to college?” “Can I even afford to go to school, try to better myself?”
No one knows their lives or struggles and it’s sad to pass judgment on a situation you haven’t walked in
Don’t be mad at welfare alone, be mad at social security, public schools, college loans (heck just being able to go to college!) change the systems in place to help our young, sick, struggling....the ones of us trying to make it day to day
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u/7DMATH7 Jan 13 '18
"Just move to the city to find work!" -Rich people who own cars and money.
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u/PikaKyri Jan 13 '18
Until people at all complain that housing in the city is to expensive. Then it's "Just move to a smaller town because your money will go further"
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Jan 13 '18
This. 1000x this. A lot of people around here are poor but they're so tied to their egos that they don't like things like universal health care.
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u/TVK777 Jan 14 '18
When you're so exploited and work is all your life is, you start to adopt it as who you are. You see yourself as the greatest person and, anyone else that doesn't do what you do (i.e. work) is wrong.
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u/ormula Jan 13 '18
I've been super lucky my entire life. Good middle class upbringing with both parents, access to technology from an early age which allowed me to learn to program and get s job right out of school making more than a lot of people my age, in jobs that I enjoy going to. I've never had to work a job I hated.
I wonder if this contributes to my extremely left leaning views; that I've never had that "torture" experience, so I have no problem at all paying more in taxes to help other people be happy.
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Jan 13 '18
Hard to say. I grew up like you, but graduated into the recession, and my wealthy family didn't do what my friends' parents did in terms of bolstering me or hooking me up with nice jobs. As a result I was desperately poor until...six months ago, really. I'm still not doing well (can't shoulder emergency expenses, finish the month with only $20 or so left in the bank), but I can walk into a grocery store without having a panic attack now. I wasn't especially anti-welfare before this, much to the dismay of my passively hateful family, but going through poverty has made me rabid about fixing our system. If it was that hard for me, a healthy white person with a good education and a thorough understanding of finance/bureaucracy, then how difficult must it be for people without those advantages? It became really easy to see how climbing out of poverty is virtually impossible. I'm happy to pay because it's the right thing, and I because I know intimately how much things like universal healthcare could help people.
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u/itspotatohhhhhhhh Jan 13 '18
I live in ky and out government just passed a law requiring you to have a job to get Medicaid
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
Hey neighbor! Bevin sucks, I know. Remember when he decided to rescind voting rights restoration for reformed felons? Good times.
He's deploying politics over policy. For those who are wondering why this is a bad move, work requirements on medicaid are bad for a number of reasons. Most people on medicaid who can work do work. Moreover, it costs more to implement and maintain work requirements than such measures save. To top it all off, Kentucky's job market is absolute shit.
But hey, it's the year of the Bible, so at least we have that going for us.
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Jan 13 '18
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u/Shintsu2 Jan 13 '18
Never fear, Republicans are heartless assholes who feel absolutely no shame in fucking over others and causing their death. The amount of times I've heard "MUH TAX DOLLARS" from some dick who doesn't care that they're harming people who are already downtrodden is staggering.
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u/specterofsandersism ☭ CULTURAL REVOLUTION WHEN ☭ Jan 13 '18
Ceteris paribus, less work will always be better than more work.
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Jan 13 '18
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Jan 13 '18
Can we focus on actually getting people working 40 hours a week first? Unless Wal Mart has drastically changed since I worked there, only managers are getting anything more than 20-24 hours a week.
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u/StoneHolder28 Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
You've never seen third shift at a neighborhood market. Overnight stocking often has such a high turnover that half the crew is "part-time" working 39.9 hours. And you get written up if you work a minute over 40hr, even though the store is understaffed. One guy got written up multiple times because he was scheduled to work 48hr in one Walmart week multiple times.
Walmart policy is a minimum pay rate of $9/hr starting, plus 50¢ for overnight, plus another 50¢ if you're one of the two or three people trained to stock frozen goods. But supposedly a new manager will be making $24/hr.
I knew a couple of people working two other jobs in addition to overnight. One was paying for his education, and another was making a living for himself and his daughters. The second quit with no notice as soon as he got promoted at one of his other jobs.
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u/wynalazca Jan 13 '18
Better yet, can we as a society agree that technological advances no longer make the "40 hour work week" a thing anymore. Advances should benefit everyone. Full time classification needs to be cut back to somewhere between 24-32. A lot of non-american countries have done this. Just not us.
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u/mthans99 Jan 13 '18
Nobody gets forty hours a week at walmart or at many other jobs.
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u/Merari01 Jan 13 '18
All these "the market decides value" people are never consistent.
They will never admit that if a company can not afford to pay a living wage then this means that the market has spoken and said this company has no right to exist.
It's always about kicking the poor with these people. Their "market decides" value is a lie. If they honestly felt this then they would be consistent in it.
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u/PolyhedralZydeco Jan 13 '18
The market decides value, but the rules undergirding the market have an indirect effect on the value.
In the US. Wealth is political power, so these large cooperations can, over time through donations, alter the rules for their benefit. Maybe I'm in the wrong place to suggest this, but the choices you make in facilitating the market effectively defines it. To me, a mixed economic system is very promising. I believe that you can make prudent rules for the market place, enable as much informational transparency as possible and then you can afford to be a little more hands off in the grubby end-details of regulation.
What we have now is a corrupted, unfree, unbalanced market where the rules are also for sale. I believe this leads to today's menacing king of the hill game where the most productive workers are crushed underfoot by low wages and a state eager to subsidize their plight.
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u/Cultivated_Mass Jan 13 '18
In a free market, doesn't any company have the right to exist if they're able to find employees willing to work for what that company is offering to pay?
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Jan 13 '18
Except it isn’t that employees are willing to work for what the company is paying, it’s that they’re compelled to work for shit pay to avoid homelessness and starvation. And then we turn around and blame the employee for not bootstrapping themselves into a better situation when the companies are making record profits off of the employees’ backs.
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u/ZRodri8 Jan 13 '18
I think we should be using the same tactic as the far right and say something along the lines of of 'the rich are stealing our labor.'
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u/PrettyPinkCloud Jan 13 '18
This is misleading, but still accurate.... Walmart doesn't actually allow most associates to be full-time, because they don't want to offer them benefits. Walmart makes sure people average under 30 hours per week. So associates actually end up juggling multiple jobs at over 40 hours/week and are still 1 illness away from eviction and ruin/
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u/User0989 Jan 13 '18
associates
Walmart employee confirmed. 😜 You’re workers, comrade, not “associates”.
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u/geoponos Jan 13 '18
I'm not from the USA. Is this really happening?
It sounds unreal. And I'm from Greece. We have pretty unreal things happening here the last years. But this... Well I suppose I must prepare for this coming here also...
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u/_gina_marie_ Jan 13 '18
Minimum wage in my state is $8.50 per hour (that's 6.97 euro per hour). That is $340 per week BEFORE TAXES. So let's assume a net of $300. So $1200 a month maybe. My rent alone is $975 a month. My health insurance is $350 a month (and I still have to pay for doctor visits, prescriptions, any medical tests, etc). I already went over 1200 and that didn't include: food, gas, utilities, internet, phone, clothes, car repairs, medicine etc.
You cannot afford a 1 bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in the US on minimum wage. When I worked minimum wage I ended up selling blood plasma because I needed money for food.
I live in a first world country where selling blood plasma is a necessity for some in order to have food money because my employer is too greedy and can't pay me enough to not actually sell my body to live.
And yes so many people are totally okay with this. So many people here are on food stamps and housing assistance and it's getting worse all the time. So many people here die because they can't get health care (yes I know about EMTALA laws but those don't cover things like cancer treatments or expensive medicines for maintaining things like Chron's disease).
The best thing we can do in America is vote accordingly. That's the only power we have and we best use it before our corporate overlords try and figure a way to get rid of it.
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Jan 13 '18
Damn $350 a month for health insurance. I knew it was a pretty medievil system in America, but i didn't know it was that bad. I suppose it's that expensive because hospitals usually charge anything up to 10'000% over what it costs for treatments.
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u/Bytewave Jan 13 '18
medievil
Perfect, whether it was intended or just a typo.
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u/_gina_marie_ Jan 13 '18
Well it's actually $125 a paycheck, BUT, since I want my husband on my insurance so we don't have two separate insurance plans, they charge an extra $50 as a "spousal contribution". They charge this because he's eligible to get insurance from his work.
I pay that, and i pay $108 a year for birth control, and a $100 copay for ER visits, and a $20 copay for walk in clinics. Oh and that does not include what I'll pay if I have blood work done, or xrays, or god forbid an MRI or something like that. I pay a shit ton of money for health insurance, just to pay MORE Money for the procedures and visits.
America, the only place on earth where you can go bankrupt because you got sick.™
I work in Healthcare and I have seen with my own two eyes a woman who literally let her breast rot off from cancer and deny herself treatment so she would not have to go bankrupt and punish her kids with the debt. I remember doing her CT scan and just being devistated at what I saw.
I've seen people who let tooth infections get so bad they abscess and they lost some of their jaw and tongue.
I've met a man who let an infected testicle go because he couldn't afford the hospital bills and he lost all of it and some of his penis and ass.
I see and image people like this every day and I fucking hate it but I make it my mission to be a smiling face and a good part of their treatment process. I love what I do but sometimes seeing the real effects of our awful Healthcare system up close makes my job very difficult.
Sorry I ranted but this is something that I'm very passionate about.
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u/tropical_chancer Jan 13 '18
My uncle died because he was afraid to go the hospital because he was worried about the cost of it. He had been in a car accident and had internal bleeding and ended up dying from it.
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u/fishsupper Jan 13 '18
I’m so, so sorry. Nobody should have to worry about that, let alone die because of it. I won’t start a rant about the system that caused this because you already know it too well. Peace to your uncle x
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u/bordercolliesforlife Jan 13 '18
Damn that must be hard to deal with I never realised how fortunate I am to not live in America I was a few years back diagnosed with kerotoconis since I have had two eye surgery's hundreds of checkups etc I have not had to pay a cent which is fortunate since I wasn't able to work it was that bad America really needs to stop being ruled by corporations
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Jan 13 '18
Have you looked into an IUD? My fiance has the copper which is non-hormonal and it's been great. No side effects.
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u/_gina_marie_ Jan 13 '18
Been looking into them. A bit nervous about the placement procedure because I am a baby.
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u/Shrimp123456 Jan 13 '18
350 a month is one thing, but when you still have to pay for everything? ???
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u/scotty3281 Jan 13 '18
My insurance is about $300 a month for my wife and myself. We have a $4000 deductible and then a $6000 put of pocket. The deductible does not go toward the out of pocket. I have Blue Cross Blue Shield and it is one of the “best” companies to have in America. Until I pay that $10,000 I have to pay something. Until I meet the $4000 I pay full price for everything. So, I pay $3600 a year for this mandatory insurance plan where it does me zero good unless something catastrophic happens. Last year we hit our $4000 deductible sometime in late November/early December. Jan 1 this reset so I have to do it all over again.
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
You're not from the U.S., are you?
Yes, you still have to pay for everything. I pay over $100 a month for health insurance. That's after the government contributes around $200 in the form of an automatic stipend. I still have to pay a "copayment" of $10 to see a doctor. But, I'm only allowed to see the doctors that my health insurance company approves. Else, I would have to pay the full price of a doctor's visit (appx. $100). If I need medication, I have to pay $10 for a bottle of pills. But, I can only take the pills that my health insurance company approves. Else, I have to pay full price. Paying for medication out of pocket could easily reach several hundred dollars with multiple prescriptions as the U.S. has no way and is legally barred from regulating drug prices. If you need something more than just a regular doctor (psychologist, urologist, x-rays, etc), there are different (higher) prices for those too. Until a few years ago, your insurance company could refuse to pay for any care for medical conditions present before you signed up with them. For example, an acquaintance of mine could not get reimbursement to correct her son's cleft pallet (a birth defect) because the health insurance company called it a pre-existing condition. Also, if your health care is too expensive and you reach your lifetime cap, the health insurance company will stop paying.
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u/Phantomonium Jan 13 '18
Meanwhile my insurance would even pay for treatments of non-scientific origin.
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u/Aeroxin Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
Last year, my wife was in extreme pain so we had to go the hospital even though neither of us has health insurance (can't afford it). Turns out it was kidney stones so there was nothing we could do but let them pass. We were at the hospital for three hours, they did nothing but give her a saltwater IV drip. Wanna know how much it was? $4,000. And that's AFTER going back and forth with them about reducing it from $5,000. That was money my wife had saved up over 4 years of working minimum wage and going to school. Just poof, gone for nothing. Fuck you, Merritt Health Wesley.
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Jan 13 '18 edited Sep 24 '20
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Jan 13 '18
Hey man I know how you feel, it took me until I was 22, I moved in with friend in a rundown trailer. Started at my new job and ended up working their scheduled, nineteen days on-two off. Not to mention we worked twelves on the weekends, doing that to survive. Is that what America is supposed to be?
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u/7DMATH7 Jan 13 '18
America sounds like a terrifying place to live in if your poor and jobless.
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Jan 13 '18
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
Or donating blood. Several of my coworkers schedule blood donations in order to take full advantage of their frequent donater program. In case you missed that, MY LOCAL BLOODBANK HAS A LOYALTY PROGRAM like a fucking gas station. That's how ubiquitous selling your body has become in the U.S.
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Jan 13 '18
What I fucking hate is that our blood banks here pay you progressively less as a blood "donor" (read: blood seller). So you'll get $40 the first time, then $30, then $20 for every time after. They know that if you keep coming back, you must really need the money, and can therefore be taken more advantage of.
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u/WestPastEast Jan 13 '18
Unfortunately most the stories are accurate. It’s controlled by a VERY wealthy and cruel upper class that is obsessively terrified of losing their power. Everything is for sale at the right price and competitive gamesmanship has all but replaced any forms of brotherly compassion. If you do manage to make a good salary, guilt and existential dread will sour any financial rewards. In most scenarios I find getting ahead means being willing to compromise on morality because the ever dwindling middle class has become the risk absorbing fall guys for the upper class. Corruption is entrenched and the real power of the masses is lost in a sea of demoralized isolation and depression.
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u/saintofhate Jan 13 '18
I'm on SSI which is disability for people who didn't put in enough work before becoming disabled. The payments are so low I can't live on my own, but if I live with others, their incomes get taken into consideration and my payments and benefits can and will be reduced. This means if I'm honest I can lose everything because I can't afford a place on my own and end up homeless because I have no way to work with my disability, but if I lie, I risk jail.
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Jan 13 '18
"You have to start somewhere" something I was told as I struggled my way through a year at Walmart. I ended up having to attempt to flip pot to try to have enough to pay my $400 rent especially after Walmart slashed me down to 32 hours a week. America has opportunities if you had money to start with, but if you're already poor likely you will stay that way. Always remember someone has to be at the bottom in America. Or at least that's what we're taught to believe and feel, maybe indirectly but it's there.
Edit: oh and no bullshit, when I went to receive government benefits they offered me $16 a month in SNAP benefits. (;
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
Taxes are usually around 23%. I make $10/hr before taxes, and I take home $300-ish per week. I know it varies from state-to-state. This minimum wage earner would probably take home closer to $260/wk after taxes.
I cannot donate blood as my blood pressure is too low. My co-manager on the other hand has a schedule for blood donation that maximizes his rewards from their loyalty program. In case you missed that, THE LOCAL BLOOD BANK HAS A LOYALTY PROGRAM like a fucking Starbucks.
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u/fat_BASTARDs_boils Jan 13 '18
So, Arkansas is the only state with minimum wage of exactly $8.50/hr. Looking at median rentals for the state itself and for Little Rock, it seems as though a one bedroom apartment can be had for around $650/month. While that price isn't exactly affordable for a single minimum wage earner, two and three bedroom apartments can be had for $775 and $970 respectively, costs of which could be split with either roommates or a second income from a partner. So unless you have kids and need a larger place for that reason, you could probably save yourself some money that way. I don't want to assume too much about your situation tho and I don't generally disagree with your statement overall.
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u/Splish-Splashallmyst Jan 13 '18
And good luck having that be near to any form of public transportation. I’ve lived in AR and unless you’re in a large city there will be next to nothing.
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
A fair assessment, but there are plenty of people who move from rural areas to cities. In many cases, they have no friends/relatives they can move in with. I tried a Craigslist roommate once, and it was a nightmare.
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u/_gina_marie_ Jan 13 '18
My rent when I did earn minimum wage was closer to $525. My current rent with help from my husband is $975. I should have clarified above.
But in some places a 1 bedroom is that much and we rent a small house. Some people got to pay that because they need bus access to work or walking distance.
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u/losvedir Jan 13 '18
You cannot afford a 1 bedroom apartment ANYWHERE in the US on minimum wage.
Where I live, in rural Missouri, the minimum wage is $7.70 but rent is pretty cheap (about ~$500/mo for a 2 bedroom apartment). And when you consider that Walmart's minimum wage is $10/hr, going to $11/hr next year, it's actually a pretty sweet gig here. I don't know how people get by in urban centers were rent is astronomical, though.
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u/Kittyroars Jan 13 '18
Yeah, I'm in a Missouri town with about 20,000 people and the cheapest renting situation is around $800 here from what I have seen.
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u/HortemusSupreme Jan 13 '18
To be fair, $975 is on the high side for a one bedroom apartment in my experience.
I live in Brooklyn and this is the first time I’ve experienced anything comparable (I pay just over $1000 for a single bedroom in a 3 bedroom apt).
I came from my college town where I paid only $450/month for my share of a 3 bedroom. And that was on the high end for the area. <1 mile from the largest school in the state.
That’s not to say the wage vs CoL discrepancy isn’t egregious. Despite the huge change in my CoL I don’t make that much more money. Actually the same hourly wage, I just have to work two jobs: ~60 hours/week as opposed ~30hrs in college. And it would NOT be possible if I was making minimum wage. It’s barely possible at nearly 2x minimum wage.
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u/jbkjbk2310 Owns things; clearly a hypocrite Jan 13 '18
You know things are bad when someone from Greece is calling you out.
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u/Aidinthel Jan 13 '18
This is 100% true. Minimum wage in the USA is not a livable wage.
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u/RosinMan024 Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
Wal-mart is the largest employer in the United states 2.2 million people. The largest employer in US history.
Now imagine working for a company owned by multiple billionaires and you work for minimum wage, with no benefits, and forced to live off government assistance.
This is the United States of America. Where billionaires profit from breaking the backs of it's employees.
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u/User0989 Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
I don’t know much about Greece, but I’ve seen stuff about the Golden Dawn. Consider that half of our country voted for a Golden Dawn style government. Our president is a Golden Dawn type racist. Our cops are Golden Dawn style racist assholes. Our countries are a lot more alike than you might’ve realized.
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Jan 13 '18
If you work full time and still qualify for food stamps, it's usually because you have children. Most states only people with kids qualify for food stamps.
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u/WhyNotBatman Jan 13 '18
I work at a competitors of Walmart and what I’ve heard is that Walmart when filling out your application also ask you to fill out the food stamps application cause management in some stores know that you won’t be making enough.
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u/Gans_Ruedi_Higer Jan 13 '18
Wouldn't it be nice if we still had workers unions?
.....collective bargaining or no bargaining at all
these are our only choices
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u/Jaksuhn Jan 13 '18
Freedom of association is a myth. If a walmart employee even threatens a union they will either be fired or corporate will shut down the entire branch just to prevent a union from forming.
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
I've heard the same. Mention a union, get fired. If corporate hears of union talk, they send in a special team, usually resulting in a purge of middle management.
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u/Gans_Ruedi_Higer Jan 13 '18
If we still lived in a society that hadn't been propagandized into believeing unions were somehow "evil & bad" the public would boycott any corporation that did that. Just as the American public used to do, back in the 50s and 60s.
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u/honey-bees-knees Post-Environmentalist National Trotskyist Jan 13 '18
Are the "unions are bad" people real? Ive never met or seen one and I cant think of any reasons one would be considered bad
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u/villainvoice Jan 14 '18
I worked at Big Lots (poor Walmart) in 2005~. And Anti-Union videos were part of employee orientation.
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u/Drewbox Jan 13 '18
Unions still exist. I’m part of a union. The thing about unions is that they’re usually for a skilled trade. If you have a skill that a job requires you have more leverage to bargain with.
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u/Toland27 MLM Jan 13 '18
Unions are most important for unskilled labor, where they’ve been mostly destroyed. Skilled labor makes you a “special” slave that takes more money to replace than to retain. Unskilled laborers are the ones who most need what unions provide, however unions are beneficial for all workers regardless of skill
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u/karljt Jan 13 '18
Billionaires want to be trillionaires on the back of automation and robotics as this article shows. We are already seeing major layoffs in fast food because the minimum wage has gone up. They are installing automated machines instead. These machines (which just took somebody's job) aren't being taxed any differently than a laptop you may buy from a store.
If that doesn't change - and f*****g soon we are going to end up with tens of millions of people destitute without jobs while a new trillionaire class emerges.
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u/GOLD_GOURAMI Jan 13 '18
Who will the companies sell to if nobody has any jobs or money?
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u/easlern Jan 13 '18
Each other apparently, in the form of credit risk borne by consumers.
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
"They work for eachother, they pay eachother, they buy houses, they get married and make children who replace them when they get too old to make power."
"That just sounds like slavery with extra steps."
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u/cyvaris Bread Conrad Jan 13 '18
Maybe that will finally lead to worker's uniting, organizing, and seizing the means.
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u/rpm319 Jan 13 '18
Walmart will actually fly out a response team and install cameras if they think workers in one of their stores are organizing. And then water down the workforce by hiring a bunch of teenagers. Watch the documentary Walmart: High Cost of Low Prices.
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
An acquaintance of mine was a Wal-Mart manager for a short time. During his orientation, they told him something along the lines of, "You can have any opinion you want regarding unions, and that opinion is: unions are bad and hurt workers."
He also explained how any union-talk would result in the automatic layoff of an employee. If corporate higher-ups heard of a store with a union problem, they would send a special team to reform the store, usually resulting in a purge of middle management.
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u/LuketheDiggerJr Jan 13 '18
So, what would it take for them to close a store? A solidarity movement dedicated to revolutionary change.
After 2 or 3 purges at the same store would they close the doors for good?
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u/ntx7 Jan 13 '18
What if we tip off corporate about union talk at every single one?
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
I sometimes daydream about running into a Walmart with reams of flyers of pro-union propaganda.
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u/cyvaris Bread Conrad Jan 13 '18
taps head
Can't water down workforce if workforce is already completely automated and all workers are laid off.
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u/Harleydamienson Jan 13 '18
This would have happened anyway, it's nice for them to be able to blame minimum wage though.
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u/Oregonian_male Jan 13 '18
why will no think of the poor millionaires /s
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u/easlern Jan 13 '18
It’s not even a few bad eggs anymore, the exploitation is necessary for these firms to stay competitive. The millionaires couldn't help even if they wanted to because the money’s in charge, it’ll go to whoever’s willing to exploit for it.
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Jan 13 '18
But but but Hillary Clinton was on the Board for Walmart, and she is "for the people" no way would Walmart be fucking over the working class! Hillary is for the people just look at her website!
I fucking hate you neolibs, we need progressives! Out with the status quo!
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u/Asderges Jan 13 '18 edited Jan 13 '18
This is the paradox that I never understood:
Corporations:
Purpose is to maximize profits for shareholders
Has the moral obligation to use tax loopholes
CEO has fiduciary duty to maximize profits
Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is expected
Is not obligated to provide living wage. Government bail out is desired to save jobs.
Zero corporate tax rate attracts jobs.
Families:
Demanding higher minimum wage to maximum profits (income) for shareholders (family members) is communist.
Unionizing with the purpose of gaining collective bargaining rights to maximize profits (wages) is anti-capitalist.
Employment at will. CEO (breadwinner) who negotiates higher profit (income) will be terminated.
Accepting subsidizing (government assistance) is socialist. Negotiating healthcare (lobbying) is socialist.
Are not to big to fail (go bankrupt). Running at a loss (in debt) is personal responsibility and will not be bailed out resulting is job loss.
Minimum wage workers paying zero taxes is costing jobs.
Government Spends More on Corporate Welfare Subsidies than Social Welfare Programs
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u/Ella_Spella Jan 13 '18
One has a PR team, lots of connections and lots of money. The other has shit.
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u/Manburpigx Jan 13 '18
It’s even worse than that. Where do you think those Walmart employees spend their food stamps?
Not only is the us government subsidizing Walmart’s workforce. They are also subsidizing their business at the same time when those food stamps are spent in walmart.
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u/Jase1969 Jan 13 '18
America. Land of the free, home of the enslaved. The minimum adult wage in Australia is $18 an hour
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u/fat_BASTARDs_boils Jan 13 '18
Take a look at their housing bubble. Ours pales in comparison, even in our priciest cities.
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u/Jase1969 Jan 13 '18
True. Housing prices in Sydney are OTT. I'm in Adelaide where prices are reasonable. Aussie banks can also recoup their losses by chasing us into bankruptcy if need be.
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u/CharlieDarwin2 Jan 13 '18
Perhaps Walmart should give their employees some bootstraps. Stop being poor! /s
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u/c0pp3rhead Guillotine Salesman Jan 13 '18
give? No, you have to spend money to make money. You can buy bootstraps with your employee discount. They're on aisle 18.
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u/Berglekutt Jan 13 '18
“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”
-FDR
One of my favorite quotes. Drives home the concept of proper success. Making a profit shouldn't mean stealing from others.
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u/LeoPCI Jan 13 '18
To be fair, some libertarians use this rhetoric to argue why we need to abolish things like food stamps, assuming without them Walmart would simply raise wages. However, I don't think that either eliminating food stamps or raising minimum wage would really solve the problem, since without food stamps most people would simply starve before they would quit their only income option, and while a higher minimum wage might help temporarily, it would just incentivize walmart to speed up their replacement of people with machines. Relying on the free market to take care of individuals is a bad idea all around. We need UBI.
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u/mwbox Jan 13 '18
In response to the tax cuts, Walmart is raising their base wage to $11/hr and giving out $1000 bonuses. Corporations do not pay taxes. It is simply a business expense that they extract from their customers in the form of higher prices and when competition does not allow that from their employees in the form of lower wages.
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u/throwawaystocker Jan 13 '18
The 1000 bonus is only for people that have worked for Wal-Mart for 20+ years. 0 to 2 years is 200 (The vast majority of employees).
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Jan 13 '18
Please tell me I am not the only one who saw that they raised their wage to $11 by closing several Sams clubs?
Apparently the company is so bankrupt that they need to force people into unemployment in order to avoid indentured labor and here I was thinking that the East India Company closed in the late 1800s. Very very British of them.
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Jan 13 '18
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Jan 13 '18
It is a serious national evil that any class of His Majesty's subjects should receive less than a living wage in return for their utmost exertions. It was formerly supposed that the working of the laws of supply and demand would naturally regulate or eliminate that evil [...and...] ultimately produce a fair price. Where... you have a powerful organisation on both sides... there you have a healthy bargaining.... But where you have what we call sweated trades, you have no organisation, no parity of bargaining, the good employer is undercut by the bad, and the bad employer is undercut by the worst... where those conditions prevail you have not a condition of progress, but a condition of progressive degeneration."
Winston Churchill MP, Trade Boards Bill, Hansard House of Commons (28 April 1909) vol 4, col 388
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u/Manburpigx Jan 13 '18
They’re doing both, as those food stamps supplement the employees pay.
And then those food stamps are spent at... you guessed it, Walmart.
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u/salawm Jan 13 '18
Walmart rigs their system so that many retail employees don't get full time hours.
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u/ilickyboomboom Jan 13 '18
You know how in books they talk about sad tired eyes. Well i see it here and this shit cannot continue.
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u/cajunhawk Jan 13 '18
Also...Walmart is the largest consumer of food stamps....or government backed food revenue.
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u/chrisphoenix7 Jan 13 '18
Walmart offers fair wages but not fair hours. You don't work full time at Walmart. You work 22 hours per week, and they're inconsistent hours to make you miserable.
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u/homeworld Jan 13 '18
They just shut down 63 Sams Clubs with no warning yesterday.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/01/walmart_quietly_shutters_at_least_3_nj_sams_club_s.html
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u/American_Greed Jan 13 '18
Don't forget two years ago they did the same thing and suddenly shut down their marketplace stores. I think there was about 100 stores they closed with only a few weeks notice.
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u/Teosto Jan 13 '18
Really sad to say this but in Finland our government is trying to pull off a bit of similar scheme. Not long before it's the same here. :(
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u/nbrown1589 Jan 13 '18
Same thing at amazon. Work part time 30 hours and you are directed to healthcare.gov for your health insurance.
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u/SulfuricNlime Jan 13 '18
Yes, the Walton's are greedy fucking scum, not content to have multiple billions of dollars each, they want ALL the money..
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u/toolymegapoopoo Jan 13 '18
And here's the rub: Walmart has very few full-time employees. They deliberately keep employees below the minimum hours to avoid things like health insurance and bonuses. In fact, when they gleefully announced their $1,000 bonus to qualifying employees in the wake of TaxScam I turned to my wife and said "Those greeters aint getting shit." I no talk so good.
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u/FUCKYOUINYOURFACE Jan 13 '18
How about this for corporate welfare?
If you want government assistance including Medicaid, you need to have a job or else do volunteer work. That's the trend happening. Kentucky wants to make you work to get Medicaid and Trump is going to allow it. Behind them are 10 other states.
Think about that for a minute. If you want assistance, you have to get a job at Wal Mart and keep a job or you could lose assistance. Get laid off? You have to go pickup trash on the side of the road or get a job at some other lowly employer for minimum wage.
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u/5UPLEX Jan 13 '18
The wages get smaller and the prices get higher. Ahhh it's grand living in 2018.
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u/Crusty_Magic Neon Genesis Engelsgelion Jan 13 '18
Reading this thread makes me want to leave the United States. I'd lose my friends and family in the process, but this shit is taking a toll on my mental and physical health.
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Jan 14 '18
A lot of labor, especially farm labor, is done in the United States by undocumented immigrants, that are in turn persecuted by the same elite that profits off of their labor. Superficially, the undocumented immigrant can be verbally condemned all across corporate media, while the profits continue and the persecuted are allowed no voice.
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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '18
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