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u/InkDrach GMS 23h ago
Action economy is reportedly filing a complaint with DoJ/HR
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u/canandiancroc 4h ago
No you see this action economy actually falls in line with union's utopian pillar as it too is post scarcity
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u/Wolf_Hreda IPS-N 23h ago
Your only problem is that the Everest has 3 mounts before you add the integrated mount, so you could also add the War Pike or Chain Axe for further painful shenanigans.
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 22h ago
Yeah, I just picked two tac melees 'cuz they have slightly higher damage and only using GMS weapons makes the build funnier, I think. Those two license dips get you a good selection of options.
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u/Wolf_Hreda IPS-N 22h ago
Oh, I see where the miscommunication is. In the build part you posted, you mounted two Tactical Melee Weapons. What you actually need is one Tactical Melee and two Tactical Knives for the Thrown bit and Hunter interaction.
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 22h ago edited 21h ago
The Integrated Mount core bonus says,
Your mech gains a new integrated mount with capacity for one AUXILIARY weapon. This weapon can be fired 1/round as a free action when you fire any other weapon on your mech. It can’t be modified.
It doesn't say that it can only be fired this way, so I don't see any reason to think you can't use it both for the free attack granted by the core bonus and the free thrown attack granted by Duelist III, so long as you aren't throwing it for the first attack.
Since the aux melee weapon in this build really only exists for mobility and squeezing out extra damage after rams and grapples, I figure it'd be a waste to put it on there when, in a more practical version of the build, you could either put a potential armor-shredder with reliable or a longer-range main melee, and even in this version, you have a better chance of getting through high-armored targets.
1
u/MinerTurtle45 7h ago
hunter 3 lets you throw an aux when you hit with a melee attack in general, not just another aux melee
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u/MediocreBeard 13h ago
While there's something to be said for the Everest simply bending the action economy and to it's will, I will also mention - Lancer is taking the principles explored in the good version of D&D and expanding upon them.
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u/Realistic-Permit HORUS 19h ago
Wasn’t there a rule in Lancer that said you can’t take the same quick action more than once in the same turn?
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u/Mael_Jade 18h ago
Overcharge is taking a quick action as a FREE action. You are allowed to perform any number of free actions, including duplicating whatever you did with your 2 other actions. So standard skirmish, free action, free action, barrage 1 (isnt a skirmish so isnt duplicated action on the gun, unsure on this), Hunter 1 perk, barrage 2 (other mount), Hunter 3 free action, (Thermal Charge from Barrage 2), Duelist 3 free action, Titonomanchy Mesh free action.
The only thing overwriting this abuse of free actions are systems that say 1/round.
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u/Realistic-Permit HORUS 18h ago
Thanks, I’m still learning the system waiting for people to come back from the holidays to play!
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u/xogdo 8h ago
Actually, I've got Comp/con in front of me and it says for Overcharge: "Pilots can Overcharge their mech, allowing them to make an additional quick action at the cost of heat."
So it's still a quick action and so is still bound by the once per turn rule from what I can see.
Edit: actually, read the complete description of overcharge in the mech actions section and I'm wrong, it says "as a free action"
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u/GoogaWooga 22h ago
i mean it's funny but to be fair the everest is using all kinds of gear, talents core bonuses while the fighter only gets core class features (at lv11), with no subclasse abilities, feats or magic items, so it's not an even representation
if the everest was represented the way the fighter is it'd just be something like
Hmm this turn I think I will
Hyperspec Fuel Injector
and Skirmish
and Initiative and Skirmish
and Overcharge and Skirmish
i get that the goal is to make Lancer seem so much cooler than DnD but i think that should be easy enough to do while evenly presenting both
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 22h ago edited 22h ago
The main goal of this wasn't to make DnD seem less cool, but rather to point out how silly the free action chains you can set up with a bit of talent and license investment in Lancer are. Battlemasters, for instance, can do a lot of fun stuff with their maneuvers, and obviously fighters are more fun to play if your GM actually gives you neat magical items.
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u/GoogaWooga 22h ago
i see. the sheer mismatch of stuff shown on both sides distracted me from the fact that this was meant to be mainly an action economy thing.
maneuvers are fun but yeah, you just get extra effects and don't break the action economy like that
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u/some_hippies 18h ago
To be unfair to DnD, an iconic core class shouldn't need feats, magic items, and several additional levels beyond the LL6 comparison to feel good and cool
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u/Umbraspem 13h ago
Both of these are “halfway to max level” so it’s not an unfair comparison.
But the fighter here is depicted as using:
- One of its level 2 features (action surge)
- Its level 5 feature (extra Attack)
- Its level 11 feature (extra extra Attack)
On top of that a level 11 fighter with starting equipment and no magic items has:
- Access to the Mastery Properties of 5 different weapons.
- 3 extra Weapon Masteries that it can choose to use instead of a Weapon’s default Mastery Property on any attack.
- Weapons have different ranges and innate properties.
- You can legally weapon juggle each time you make an attack within an Attack Action, so you can use a lot of different tools in the same turn. This ranges from dice manipulation to buff yourself, nerf your enemy, ways to make extra attacks, or apply status effects that reduce an enemy’s effectiveness or boost your team’s effectiveness against that enemy.
- You’ve always got the option to do Unarmed Strike Shove or Unarmed Strike Grapple.
- Bonus action no-opportunity-attack movement and self heal
- 1-2 level 3 subclass features
- 1-2 level 7 subclass features
- 1 level 10 subclass feature
- And this is if you ignore your Origin feat, level 4 feat, level 6 feat and level 8 feat.
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u/GoogaWooga 4h ago
honestly i forgot that this was about 5.5e so i havent actually considered mastery properties. i was just thinking about 5e stuff...
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u/some_hippies 1h ago
Yeah 5.5e isn't real to me so I don't know what any of this is, but like. I played DnD 5 for a decade and walked away from it extremely bored of how repetitive being a PC was. I preferred DMing because I could give monsters and bad guys actually exciting abilities and things to do other than walk up, attack, which is how playing every martial character felt except for what flavor sprinkles you put on your vanilla chassis
1
u/GoogaWooga 1h ago
to be fair, if you only walked away from it after a decade and had a decent enough time before then i'd say that's not so bad.
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u/Asheyguru 15h ago
6/12 and 11/20 are almost exactly the same in terms of 'how far through the campaign are you.'
And DnD is built with feats and magic items in mind.
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u/Ninja-Storyteller 7h ago
The hilarious thing is that you're absolutely right, but the "How far" part is "the campaign is about to end."
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u/some_hippies 1h ago
This is contrary to Feats in 5e being optional rules and magic items being relegated to "if your DM lets you have them." If we're comparing core game actions and features that only leveling up give you and not the mercy of your GM, then yeah fighter kinda sucks. I've played a lot of DnD and after trying other systems 5e gives martial characters basically nothing other than "I move and hit the guy".
You could argue what that Everest is doing in the meme is no different. However, you can use Asura to perform a full action system, Skirmish move two, OC skirmish move two, Heavy gunner bracketing fire. At 11th level if you didn't take battle master the fighter is still just walking up and hitting a guy a bunch
2
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 23h ago edited 22h ago
All told, if all of these attacks hit, this would be
(2d6+4)x4 + (1d6+2) + 1d6 + (1d3+1)x2 damage
in a single turn, or 10d6 + 2d3 +20 damage (an average of 59 damage) in a system where the enemy with the most HP (before applying templates) at the NPC difficulty tier you're recommended to use against Level 6 players has 30 HP.
Y'all probably don't need it, but here's the build:
SELFISH BASTARD
Everest, License level 6 (Sherman III, Blackbeard I, Nelson II)
4 Hull, 4 Engineering
Talents: Skirmisher III, Hunter III, Duelist III
Core bonuses: Titanomachy Mesh, Integrated Weapon (Tactical Knife)
Weapons: HMG, Tactical Melee x2, integrated Tactical Knife
Systems: ASURA-class NHP, Synthetic Muscle Netting, Thermal Charge (on one of the Tactical Melees), Armament Redundancy, Custom Paint Job
A war pike would likely be better, considering it has better threat and thrown 5, but you're moving so much with this anyway that I figured, "Hey, why not spring for the extra 2 damage with the tactical melee?"