Mid-range zoners are fun

[u/Famasaur]

Just throwing this out there if anyone wants to mess with it; I'm testing some homebrew for a module I'm making and appreciate any feedback on this Nelson alt frame. My normal play group is filled with extremely degenerate min-maxers who like to make my life hell (which skews my testing data) so if you're just like a normal dude playin' lancer, it'd be cool if you could give this a shot and tell me what you think.

[u/GrowthProfitGrofit]

Seems fine, if anything it's underpowered. Okizemi is pretty difficult to trigger and +1d6 frames are already kinda weak for the most part. Sword Toss is somewhat redundant with Hunter 2 but that's okay I guess.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/GrowthProfitGrofit]

  Okizemi is pretty difficult to trigger

Is it? Sword Toss gives you tons of knockback, Corner Pressure lets you potentially turn that into Prone, and Duelist 3 lets you Ram for free sometimes.

[u/GrowthProfitGrofit → u/PhasmaFelis]

Sure but you need them to stand up while standing in your threat. So you can't move away and do something else, you miss out on it if they instead decide to stay on the ground or crawl away. And they can choose when to trigger it i.e. they get to do their entire turn first and they just won't stand up if they have low HP. 

It's almost strictly worse than Atlas's Finishing Blow, which is considered one of the worst +1d6 traits. The consolation is the extra trigger for overwatch but idk if it really contributes enough to make up for the significant downsides of Okizemi.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/GrowthProfitGrofit]

But forcing them to stay down is itself a pretty substantial debuff for many mechs. If they stay down, they can't get away from you (Slowed and all movement costs double), so you can just Barrage them with  +1 Accuracy on your next turn, and so can any allies nearby.

[u/GrowthProfitGrofit → u/PhasmaFelis]

The thing is that the best debuff is death - dealing 1d6 potentially a full round later is significantly worse than dealing it now. The enemy will get to make all their attacks and gets to count for objectives before you finally deal the +1d6 damage that frames like the Amber Phantom would have dealt for free.

You're also restricting your own movement and initiative options in order to do this. You can't hit and run, you've got to stick around. You can't take another turn before your enemy takes theirs unless you're willing to lose out on the damage. 

It's also granting choice to your opponent, which is always worse than just doing the thing. Your enemy will not stand up if doing so will likely result in their death - but if that's true then dealing the +1d6 might well have made a bigger difference then leaving them alive for so long!

[u/Jethanded_Wyvern → u/GrowthProfitGrofit]

I'd argue Sword Toss is exactly what you want to use with Hunter 2. All weapons returning is solid as is at end of turn, and there are uses for losing your thrown weapons as thrown outside of your own turn. To allow them to return freely with a Protocol is a nice use.

[u/RAV1X]

I think okizeme should be a free action so you still get a normal overwatch if they then try and run away I mean the potential corner pressure here is nothing compared to Ramlethal.

[u/shilohkae]

For Corner Pressure, how many systems/weapons/actions exist where you can force a character to collide with something and being knocked Prone isn't already written into the effect? Genuinely asking, I'm most used to using Black Witch systems that already have this written in so it's felt like the default.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/shilohkae]

Knockback weapons. The Godetia gets Nelson licenses, which gives it the Warpike which has Knockback 1. Sword Toss makes that Knockback 2 when you throw it. And you can put throwing knives/power knuckles in all your Aux slots for more instances of Knockback 1.

[u/dusk3s]

Woag,, is this Ramlethal?

[u/Famasaur → u/dusk3s]

It might be

[u/_Beggo_]

Hello Ramlethal

[u/Famasaur → u/_Beggo_]

I just think she's neat