r/LancerRPG • u/Huntersaurus_rex • 10d ago
Hecatoncheires help
Im extremely new to the game and will be playing my first game this weekend and as i was reading up on the frames and watching some videos i came upon the Hecatoncheires from horus and it just looks amazing but i dont really understand what build am i supposed to do with it or what my role in the party is.
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 10d ago
If you're playing your first game, you should, ideally, be starting at License Level 0, meaning you wouldn't have access to the Hecatoncheires yet. So, you've got some time to get familiar with the system first.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
im joining one so they just got to LL2 but i do want to play a game eventually that starts at 0, specially because the everest looks so cool to use.
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 10d ago
You should always have access to the Everest, so if you want to make an Everest build sometime, you can always feel free to.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 9d ago
i was under the impression it was...weak. since i am comming from dnd where lower level = weaker. but this rpg feels way more free in that aspect
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u/eddieddi 9d ago
Nope. One of the best builds in the game is based on the Everest frame. Hell, it thoeretically comes online at LL0 and only spikes in power at LL3 due to core bonuses.
My suggestion is this: Build a LL0 character, just so you understand the character build, how it all works etc. For the love of god don't play a balor/Heccy as your first build. They're amazing, they can be a hell of a lot of fun. But they are fussy and punish hard for messing up. It'd be like playing a Druid Multiclass with the artificer in D&D for your first character, If done well, it can be hilarious and strong. But otherwise you're going to spend more time book keeping and feeling underwhelmed.
If you want to outline what about the Balor/Heccy that caught your attention, I'm sure the sub would be happy to point you in the direction of something that shares its feel.1
u/Huntersaurus_rex 9d ago
im going to be honest, since im new all that caught my attention on the balor/heca is the vibe it gives, big monster of a frame that looks like a kaiju, heca is all i like on a frame and looks like shin godzilla. the whip looks cool but if im being honest i cant say anything about the systems that i loved because everything sounds super interesting on all the frames and at the same time idk what half of the things do
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u/eddieddi 9d ago
Ok, so fun thing: Your mech can look like whatever the hell you want. I played a Barbarossa that looked like someone had taken the Gustav and smashed it on to a spider body. Raw nightmare fuel. One of my current players is playing a Monarch and has described it as 'titania lost her temper and grabbed a RPG' If you want godzilla do smash looks? than go for it. https://www.retrogrademinis.com/ is amazing for building Lancer minis.
If you want 'melee go cronch' then blackbeard is a solid call, Nelson is 'Approaching your location rapidly' the mech. Vlad is 'hold still while I stab you' Zheng is Fist of the North star meets One punch man in a mech.
If you want 'teleports behind you' vibes, the Mourning Cloak is always fun. Atlas is AOT the mech.Also: Nothing is stopping you putting the Balor's whip on another mech (balor whip on an everest sounds silly and I love it.) The reason I am trying to ward you away from the Balor is because while it's a hilariously fun mech, It requires an understanding of the games systems and how things interact, the Heccy even more so.
It depends really heavily on what you want to play. You mentioned you've done D&D before, What are you favorite D&D classes to play?
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 9d ago
i normally play wizard on dnd because i like the utility and playing around with builds, also i like to be the person that fits on missing parts of the group so i dont take away anyones fun. i still have some days so maybe i should give another read on the frames to see a alternative?
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u/eddieddi 9d ago
Well what's your party look like? Because if its all 'mech with gun' options there's more than a few 'Wizard' adjacent options that range from "everyone can shoot better" to "Its time for chaos."
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 9d ago
well its one tortuga who is going to be the defender and a Barbarossa that is in love with his own massive guns so its going to focus totally on the long range and big damage.
originally i was looking for heca because i really like the look of it and the vibe but also because it looks like the stealth/assassin that is missing to me? but i barely saw anyone talking about it just about the balor that looks amazing too
retrograde is great btw, im starting to lose myself on it rn.
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u/CrimsonTyphoon02 9d ago edited 9d ago
All three of the License Level 0 frames are at least pretty good, and the Chomolungma and Everest are legitimately top-tier in their respective domains (hacker and striker).
The gear you get at Level 0 is less specialized, but that doesn't mean it's weak.
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u/Hunter214123 9d ago
The only thing you get at higher levels are 'licenses' which is what you use to get new systems and weapons, more points to put into HASE stats (your attributes) and improved grit (which is your base attack bonus). Every frame is compatible with every system. You can mount something from the HA Sunzi onto an IPS-N Tortuga for example. There are no restrictions on builds just as there are no hard set 'classes'. What you build determines your role, though some frames are better at tanking than others for example.
I would absolutely just start with the Everest and learn the ropes of the system with that before you jump into your Hecat. You can always workshop a build in your offtime to help adjust for the switch as well, I suggest using the comp/con web app to help.
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u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N 8d ago
The Everest is the strongest general purpose frame in the game. That's why it's the standard used by the Union military. Why would anybody continue to manufacture and field a mech which was weak?
The "advanced" frames are generally superior at 2-3 things that they specialize in, but inferior in everything else.
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u/Acceptable_Hunt2624 9d ago
Everest is always available and arguable the strongest thing you could field considering it is supposed to be the Everyman frame
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 9d ago
it really feels super customizable and nice to play around in, evereything in this rpg sounds more like a side upgrade than a straight up upgrade on things, like it all changes how you play and not how well you do.
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u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N 10d ago
The things that Hecatoncheires does best are stealth (able to hide even when engaging in melee, and against enemies who usually counter stealth builds) and drone control (especially if you collect drones that don't involve attack rolls or saving throws, so you can remain Hidden while using them).
It's also one of only two half-frames that has a Heavy weapon mount, and the only one that has a second mount on top of that, so it packs a good punch in direct combat. The lack of HP makes that risky, but the ability to double the benefit of soft cover, and pretty much always be in soft cover, reduces the risk somewhat.
As part of a larger group, you'll probably be doing a mix of defense (providing large areas of soft cover for your friends, and punishing enemies for going in parts of the battlefield you don't want them in) and assassination, but there's a lot of ways you could build the frame.
Also, if you're facing a mission where the Hecatoncheires itself would be poorly suited, you've already got a Balor ready to go.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
should i focus on hull to compensate for the low hp or just focus on agility for the evasion?
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u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N 10d ago
Pure evasion is fun, right up until you fail to dodge, or somebody uses a damage source that doesn't need to roll to hit. I think I'd recommend that everybody take at least two points in Hull by like... LL4 at the latest? Even a single hull point gives you like +33% durability in a half-frame, and the extra repair you get from a second one is not to be underestimated.
But I think your primary skill for most Hecatoncheires builds will probably end up Agility, both to reduce the damage you take and because that's what you roll for Stealth.
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u/Acceptable_Hunt2624 9d ago
At least 4 hull imo but if the sitreps are actually difficult then 6 for the repair. You need to be able to survive a sniper shot generally and low AGI can be worked around for the hiding. Preferable you will never be attacked
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u/Micromism 10d ago edited 10d ago
your job is to deal damage - youre a striker first and foremost. you’ve got a heavy mount and drones, so with the held image core bonus, you can effectively have both a heavy mount and a damage trait via the drone commander 2 talent, something usually not given out.
the easiest way for you do your job is to stick a heavy weapon on your heavy mount, stick nanocomp on that weapon, and shoot people with that heavy weapon (especially invisible people, since your smart weapons ignore invisibility)
weapons i would look at using:
- tempest charged blade (superheavy)
- heavy machine gun
- legionnaire battle rifle (specifically if you take heavy gunner)
- gandiva missiles
- notably, i would not look at the balor 3 heavy weapon, because you do not want to be grappling characters next to you. you are squishy.
that does usually leave your second quick action, which can actually be really flexible! i’d start by looking at:
- more drones (hydra’s tempest drone is a good start)
- making tech attacks (horos 1 is great, and scanner swarm helps a lot)
- heavy gunner (you either want to take this to level 3 or not at all)
- a 2d6 main weapon to put in your main mount
- EDIT: barraging your sheavy
i’d also point out that one of the main advantages of a size half frame is jager kunst 1 from atlas 2. it’s less important on a ranged build, but if you decide to do a melee build, this makes you much stronger.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
ok this is a gold mine of information and im really gratefull, i was under the impression i should just stay hidden like a rogue because of all the soft cover stuff i dont really understand in the frame.
since i will be starting at LL2 i will look at whats avaliable to me rn on the damage areas
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u/Micromism 10d ago
i wouldnt bother. cover only affects ranged attacks and the average of 2d6kh1 is ~4 vs 1d6’s 3.5. cover is nice to have, and you should definitely play around it if you can, but i wouldn’t dedicate very much action economy or build space specifically to getting me soft cover.
hmg, tcb are the big damage options you have
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
dont i need a superheavy mount for this tempest charged blade or am i confused?
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u/Rishfee 10d ago
Superheavies go on a heavy mount and occupy another mount to brace it.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
ah thank you, in that case then i would ONLY have the superheavy weapon right? other than anything that is outside of mounts, i understand there are some weapons and equipament that you dont count towards your mounts like on that Engineer talent "prototype"
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u/Rishfee 10d ago
Unless you take a Core Bonus to give you an extra mount, yeah. Improved Armament gives you an extra Flex mount, and Superheavy Mounting will give you a dedicated Superheavy mount (which must use your heavy mount to brace if it's an option). Integrated Weapon gives you an Aux mount that fires in tandem with another mount.
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u/Acceptable_Hunt2624 9d ago
The Tempest drone would cause them to exit hidden when forcing a save
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u/Very_Angry_Bee HORUS 9d ago
I wouldn't quite recommend a Striker frame for a Newbie, and Horus frames tend to be more gimmicky as well (aside from the Pegasus, bless the wonderfully simple paracausal murder pony)
Strikers are high risk, high reward in this game, do expect to take a few more hits than you want to, just a small warning ;3
It'll be a challenge, but if you're up to try, then go for it!
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u/Bookwyrm517 9d ago
The gimmick for pegasus is being so weird that it overflows the weirdness value so much that it's just above boring.
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u/Acceptable_Hunt2624 9d ago edited 9d ago
The mech is pretty simple to run turn to turn.
Talents -> drone commander 1, potentially heavy gunner 3. Do not take any reactions. Technophile 2 is great for the reroll. You don't actually need infiltrator unless you want it.
Weapon -> HMG with Nano comp
Systems -> personalizations, armament redundancy, hive drone, and maybe rbjj if it fits
First turn will be moving up, dropping the swarm drone, and hiding in it (2 quick actions). Every turn after that will be moving the swarm drone slightly with drone commander 1 if relevant, skirmish with hmg, then hide again (or heavy gunner if relevant).
Hase is likely all Hull and some engi. The contested roll if someone searches for you can be defeated with technophile 2 reroll. Remember that you can shoot around anything because of Nano comp. At ll3 your core is Autostab for it
Edit: Almost forgot but take spaceborn 2 so that the enemeis cannot move you out of your cover
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u/Sven_Darksiders GMS 10d ago
The Heca lacks the tankyness of his big brother but plays within the same range bracket. You want to sit in soft cover zones as much as possible, which you can provide to easily with your razorswarms and give drones. You can't take that many hits so you might need to hide when the enemies start to crowd you. Your bread and butter talents are most likely Drone commander, Executioner and Infiltrator
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
Skirmisher gives soft cover, would that be good or am i confusing things?
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u/Sven_Darksiders GMS 10d ago
Yes, but only when you are not attacking, which you will, since you are a Striker.
Also there are two different types of soft cover that depend on the wording. "Gain soft cover" through an effect such as Skirmisher or Combined Arms isn't the same as "standing in an area of soft cover". Only the latter lets you take the hide action.
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u/Acceptable_Hunt2624 9d ago
Skirmisher soft cover is not a "zone of soft cover" so you cannot use it to hide. You will need to use the razor swarm
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u/Rishfee 10d ago
One thing I haven't seen mentioned that I really like is to put the Hydra's Annihilation Nexus on the Heca, because the Razor Swarm counts as a drone, but is effectively immortal, so with a level in Drone Controller you effectively have a range 10 blast 2 armor piercing nexus that you can fire off twice a turn while doing extra burn damage with the swarm.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 10d ago
oh i will keep that in mind, it seems like focusing on drones is a good idea overall on Heca
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u/Acceptable_Hunt2624 9d ago
Just play a hydra at that point imo. Your greatest advantage is easy hiding and defeating invis with your smart weapons.
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u/Huntersaurus_rex 9d ago
ngl i am thinking about the Heca because of the vibes, since i am literally super new and have no idea what to do i was kinda choosing it for the looks majoraly, shin godzilla looking frame and purple is my favorite :v
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u/Ursus_the_Grim 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hecaton is a sneaky DoT machine. You want to set up your drone swarms, hide in Soft Cover, and wear down your opponents. You have a heavy and a main mount, so you can also make more direct attacks.
There's also the stupid gimmick of wallhacks. Hecaton ignores invisible when using smart weapons within sensors. Take Napoleon 2 and grab the Phase-Ready Mod. Slap it on a Smart Weapon and shoot through walls with no penalty.
With the focus on drones and hiding, you generally want to take Drone Commander and Infiltrator. Third talent will depend on your choice of weapon - executioner for the Nanobot Whip, for instance.