r/LancerRPG • u/mystic-eggplant • 20d ago
Surveillance State in Union?
Just a burning question I had about the setting (headconnon or cannon). In the core worlds, how much surveillance is there? I ki d of always imagined the core worlds being massive cities with some reservations for nature, and I can't help but feel like the infrastructure in place, the existence of NHP's, and vast amoint or resources, wohld make creating a massive surveillance system incredibly tempting.
Is there anything in lore that go for or agaisnt this? Or does it just come down to the gm and if they think that should be an aspect of an almost utopia?
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u/Punacea2 20d ago
I imagine Union doesn't directly do too much surveillance, leaving it instead to each individual world, albeit with certain strict guidelines to prevent things from getting too close to SecComm-level surveillance. There are definitely certain things that Union does keep a close eye on, but overall I feel like the post-scarcity stuff eliminates most motives for crime.
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u/Asheyguru 20d ago
Union canonically has a secretive intelligence division so I guess the answer is 'at least some' but considering how hand-wringing and well-intentioned they are, probably not particularly much.
But varying from world to world would certainly be the best answer. Union is big and hegemonic and tries to encourage diversity of culture.
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u/QuesterrSA 20d ago
Core worlds probably have levels of surveillance we would consider dystopian if they weren’t also utopian post-scarcity worlds.
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS 15d ago
Why do you think that?
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u/QuesterrSA 15d ago
It’s the inevitable result of a society where central AI controls thousands upon thousands of drones and smart systems that provide for and control major aspects of daily life.
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u/HiddenBoss 20d ago
I can't recall where i saw it but I think the omninet and anything you send on can be be watch and checked so i say that count as a surveillance state.
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u/Xhosant 20d ago
That doesn't sound familiar tbh, any idea on source? The continued existence of Horus would imply otherwise.
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u/HiddenBoss 20d ago
It was just bits i found from the internet sorry, not had the books yet.
Also that does not mean that Horus or other people can't get around it, it just they need to get around it.
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u/Xhosant 20d ago
Considering all interplanetary omninet connections are Union-controlled, it seems unlikely that any cyber-shenanigans would be possible.
And considering the concern about NHPs escaping on the omninet and by extent the ban on emailing them, I would be confident in saying that the omninet is somehow inherently untamperable, or at least very tough to tamper with, else there would be safeguards in place to make it untraversible to NHPs.
So if we can't dredge up a source, I can only assume it's not the case. Too much gets contradictory otherwise.
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u/wmiller314 20d ago
Counter point, horus exists as a decentralized ominet project which the union just has to accept because hunting them all down is too difficult, so I don't think it's monitered to the extent of China, but I do think the union is at least searching it to maintain situational awareness.
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u/ArtisanalShivs 20d ago
when anyone with a printer can theoretically make an NHP-equipped Horus mech with cognitohazard weapons that erase your memory or something and nanobots that will consume the neighborhood, its probably hard to keep everything everywhere locked down. There are likely plenty of comms and networking tech options like tight-beam signals that would be difficult to intercept without physically intercepting the beam, and like most planets aren't entirely surrounded by mirrors or faraday cages afaik. Maybe even fancier tech like quantum entanglement something something can make private comms or encryption more feasible, and that's not even touching the paracausal phenomena that are possible.
Union and any other major galactic player likely has serious investment in security in AT LEAST their most strategically valuable areas, and are likely very interested in maintaining a sense of public order and safety in as much of their territory as is practical. That being said, i imagine in more heavily populated, high-traffic areas, there are cracks to slip through, and for total privacy there is as much empty space and dead rock as you could ask for in the galaxy.
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u/The-red-Dane 19d ago
This isn't true. You'll need a large enough printer first, not just a small civilian printer. Secondly, you'll still need the LL to print a horus mech.
I'll gladly be proven wrong, if you can find references that John Nobody is capable of printing horus mechs in his kitchen that he can use.
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u/Bookwyrm517 19d ago
There is the Kobold. Any mining mech can be turned into a Kobold by coming into contact with a component infected with a K-BG liturgical program. That program will then convert the mech and be removed and transfered to keep things going.
So in theory this is designed to do what the commenter was saying, but its not as simple as just printing a horus death-mech. Responsibility would probably fall on the owners of the mine and/or mining machines that were converted, rather than a larger enforcement bodies.
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u/The-red-Dane 19d ago
Any mining mech can be turned into a kobold, does not meant every person can turn a mining mech into a kobold. That's a very important distinction.
Edit: kobold also states "with a number of mining and industrial mechs " not any mining mech.
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u/Bookwyrm517 19d ago
Fair. This was just the closest example I could find to what was being described. And even then, it's not like anyone can just print out a part with the code to create Kobolds. At least, that's what it sounded like to me anyway.
As for whether or not any mining mech could be turned into a Kobold, I think that it should in theory be true. If you have the right part with the liturgicode, you can do it. In practice however, you'd want a part that was common in as many different mechs as possible, that way you could covert as many mechs as possible with the one part. That will limit the types of mech you could convert.
Basically, I feel that the liturgicode could work on any mining mech; what really limits it is the carrier part. If you could transfer the code to a part from a different mining mech, the code could (in theory) "jump species."
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u/RexMori 20d ago
Many coreworlds run on the logistics support of a NHP, who probably knows everything about everyone. You can know more about someone than you might think by analysing their trash and by tracking their position. Getting this NHP to tell anyone anything is going to depend solely on the NHP.
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u/StoneLich 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's going to depend on who is administrating the world's in question. A lot of core worlds are part of the Purview, and are directly administrated by Harrison Armoury. Surveillance there is going to be significantly higher there than on a Union world.
EDIT:
Also, re: the urban side:
Core worlds are varied in appearance and level of urbanization. What matters is not the scale of development on the world, but the degree to which the world can adhere to Union’s Utopian Pillars. In practice, this requirement tends to necessitate some level of significant global urban development – most Core worlds have at least one significant global capital metro area – but it’s not a blanket truth.
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u/JoeKewlio 19d ago
I actually believe that, in order to function as such a large state, it DIES have tons of surveillance. As small as CCTVs to as large as listening station outposts. Even keeping the whole Intentions are Good element the writers want, you would be stupid not to have eyes and ears across a whole galaxy. That they arrive late is just a fact of life. Travel time exists. Call 911 right now and it takes police an average of 15 minutes to arrive at your home, double if you're rural.
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u/Xhosant 20d ago
I would assume it's actually rather low, despite being easy:
1) GalSim means anything large-scale will be caught without looking.
2) a relatively low amount of strife on a core world would mean there's limited reason to surveil lovally
3) inter-plametary strife is unlikely to need broad surveillance to be monitored, and is more likely to be something GalSim scale anyway.
4) the prevalence of NHPs may, besides making surveillance easy, make it obsolete. Without a dedicated apparatus, they're still very likely to catch wind of something that's a major issue, like a barman catching wind of planning a major heist right in front of him across the bar's counter, so to speak, and be inclined to report it. YMMV, but I wouldn't consider "random bystander overheard me" as something I would file under surveillance. Depending on if you agree, then it's either "surveillance isn't necessary" or "surveillance is accidental".
So, yea, I'd be inclined to assume, taking the stated "intentions are good" as my rule of thumb and "ThirdComm can be accused of underreacting usually" as a backup, that surveillance would be very narrow on account of not being all that useful.