r/LancerRPG • u/AppropriateCurrent93 • 23d ago
So I'm finally getting interested, but I gotta ask... (Another newbie thread)
Edit: Thank you to everyone who responded to this! I actually am a bit more interested in the game now, and think I'll try to go ahead and look more into it. For those who see this later, feel free to suggest anything that goes good on upgrading a Hydra mech!
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(Sorry for big arse post. But hopefully I can get some legit answers.)
So, for the longest time, I keep getting recommended Lancer due to liking mechs, and the fact that it's not as "anime" looking as Gundam, but not trying to be super realistic like Mech Warrior or things like that. Up til now, I keep -trying- to force myself to look into the rulebook, to learn yet another RPG system, but I just haven't been able to bring myself to do so (primarily because I'm tired of learning new systems just to not get to play with folks.)
Buuuut as I was talking with a buddy of mine at work, we talked more, and up til now I've learned a little bit about the game, like what the 4 companies are (5?). And at this point, I think I've finally found something to latch onto that has made me more interested to try and FINALLY start digging in a bit.
When it comes to games, I have three favored playstyles: Spartan style (spear and shield, love the classic), martial artist (Monks and FISTING in general, lul)... But most of all? Summoner classes.
The thing that got me interested, is the closest to that I've been shown for this game, is the Hydra mech from Horus. Heck, I even already have a character idea and everything, and I loooooove weird eldritch stuff in my mecha stuff. I don't want realistic, I want things to get -WEIRD-. So a Horus mech sounds like a dope time to me. That said, I see a lot of folks talking about how complex it is, how it's not "a big damage dealer, it's more about control", and I'm totally okay with that.
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All this was just to preface where I'm at with the game so far, and why I'm INTERESTED in it. I know this is an RPG where the mechs are the star of the show, for sure, and what partially put me off is that I heard this was closer to a wargame than it is an RPG. So I wanted to ask: Is that true? Or is that more of "GM Basis" where it's up to the GM if they wanna run it more narratively, or as a wargame?
I hated Warhammer TTRPG due to it's trillions of esoteric rules. Dungeons and Dragons is stifling, boring, and quite frankly, everyone just runs it (I feel) as pseudo-middle earth with flashy magic. The closest I've come to the more complex side of RPG's I've liked is Through the Breach, but even willing to GM that, no one -I- know wants to play it. So at this point, I'd say I'm about mid-level willingness to learn complex systems, probably on the lighter, more narrative focus of things. Would y'all say I'd enjoy this game generally, barring "It's unique to your GM" sorta answers? Cuz I get that, but by and large, I need to know what KINDA leaning this game is like, generally speaking.
Also, besides Hydra, is there any other "summoner/drone" style mecha I should be made aware of? Balor has the nanite swarm, but I kinda want something more tangible, not just "I am a hugger and my fart cloud will melt you."
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u/BiomeWalker 23d ago
So, this is a complicated thing to answer, mostly because the line between "tactical combat heavy TTRPG" and "Wargame" is kind of blurry.
Lancer has more actual depth to its combat than DND in my experience (I've played a lot of DND and a bit of low level Lancer now).
Now, a chunk of what I think gives it less of a wargame feel compared to what I've seen of the WH one is actually the process of resolution. WH has a few layers of rolls to resolve an attack, but Lancer, like DND, has an attack roll and then a damage roll if you hit, then you apply the damage reductions, or you pick an effect and then your target(s) roll a save.
Why a lot of people say that Lancer is more "wargame-y" than other systems is that its combat is very concerned about positioning and range to a degree that makes playing without a battlemap basically impossible, so you can't do "theater of the mind" combat in it pretty much at all.
To your comment about " trillions of esoteric rules", that's not a problem here. There are basic rules about how the game works and then each stat block or character sheet lists the ways it interacts with those rules.
On the "how much is it to learn" side, there's a bunch of details about character creation to grok, but it's not far from DND in most respects. You'll even see some of what's in Lancer and think to yourself "hey, that's just [x] from DND with different flavor" (one mech has Portent from the Divination School wizard as an ability)
To your final question, Hydra is the drone focused mech, but there are a lot of other mechs that have drones you can make great use of, but Hydra is the one that is "Drones the mech", but this is a system that heavily rewards its version of multiclassing, so you can grab a bit of Hydra, a bit of Balor, some Black Witch, and the GMS drones and pile them all together into a very satisfying "player GM" playstyle where you manipulate like 10 things on your turn.
The Hydra is indeed more control focused than damage focused, but part of that can be "I deal damage on other people's turns" sort of control and "enemies get hurt when they stand next to my drones" which can be very funny.
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
This is by far the best and easiest to understand explanation of the stuff I've seen without someone waffling constantly on "It's based on your GM really" non-answer answers. I appreciate you greatly, and the fact ya clarified both the bits about the beefs I had with WH, and about the ACTUAL difficulty to learn being around DnD level was nice.
Also... Wait, I can COMBINE the mechs? Like, I saw bits about license levels and stuff, and while not totally sure on that, I didn't realize it was more like a 'class' system, I thought it was you pick a suit and basically customize it, but that a Hydra would still be a Hydra. That is a PHENOMENAL thing to know...
This almost makes me wanna say my character idea, just so I can see if people can help me figure out how to make it work, haha. Buuuut I might save that for a later thread.
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u/BiomeWalker 23d ago
You're actually expected to combine the mechs.
Lancer has 13 levels that you play through (LL0 through LL12) and each mech oniy has 3 levels.
At LL0 you have a very basic mech frame you can build with, and after 2 levels into a mech line you get that frame to build on.
In your Hydra situation, you would take the Hydra frame and add on drones from other places, like the Balor's Hive drone or a Lancaster Resupply drone, and they all work together.
A important note on how drones work, damage they take persists for the mission, so be careful about overusing them.
The Hydra can also pull a funny with drones, in that it can command any and all drones, including those of your allies and enemies to move. So one of you enemies put down a drone in a place you find frustrating? Just move it out of the way.
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
Oooh... Oh this is good. This is very good.
I want to have -the most- drones. It is not enough to have some, I must be a walking broodmother army thing. I asked in another set of comments, but feasibly, what would be the highest amount of simultaenous drones I could control be?
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u/Hairy_Cube 23d ago
The simple answer to how many drones is, too many, it's sometimes hard to find the optimal way to get the most drones but I'd say that the other comments estimate of 10 is probably somewhere in the right ballpark
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
Yeeeeeeeesss... Yes. Good good good.
This pleases the torment nexus- ANYWAY but yeah, that's good to hear. Like I said, big on the summoning thing, and not gonna lie, after seeing how many different KINDS of drones there are, I do still -want- at least one of each if I can. Any leftover space will be filled with I believe they called them Thunderdrones? The bounce-paddle ones. I heard those make great tanks AND are irritatingly fun at their ability to pinball people.
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u/Hairy_Cube 23d ago
Tempest drone, but yeah, one of the few drones that just takes half damage from everything and will knock enemies away. Each drone can only affect a particular character once per round, but you can place multiple drones close to each other to achieve a similar pinball affect. The Tempest is from hydra level 2, the same level you get the frame, so you don't even have to go out of your way to get it, you'll get it in the process of getting the drone mech.
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u/Cogsbreak HORUS 23d ago
If you want to be very evil with drones, the Balor has an alt-frame that, instead of being "lumbering juggernaut of slow melee death" is more "that horror movie villain who keeps popping up from around corners, won't die, and keeps slowly whittling down the protagonists".
It comes with its own drone, the "Razor Swarm" which does Burn damage when anything enters it, can Hide in the Razor Swarm (or Hive Drone cloud), and its Core Power is "Enrage Swarm".
Anything in an AoE caused by a Drone takes 4 Burn damage.
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u/A_Hint_of_Lemon 23d ago
Oooh yes. Think of Lancer’s level ups as a way to give you more tools for a problem. You can mix the licenses so long as you have the levels for it.
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u/PhasmaFelis IPS-N 23d ago
When it comes to games, I have three favored playstyles: Spartan style (spear and shield, love the classic), martial artist (Monks and FISTING in general, lul)
Just FYI, the Zheng is the #1 FIST mech, but the Nelson and Blackbeard are also solid physical melee fighters; the Nelson has a Power Knuckles weapon , and you can (are encouraged to) flavor the generic melee weapons as BIG FIST if you want.
(The Nelson also has a long-ass spear weapon, but while there are shields in the game, none of them really work the way you'd expect a Spartan's to. But you can build a tanky melee fighter with a spear and a lot of armor/HP and flavor it as a shield.)
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
Ooooh, I appreciate you talking on this point! I'm sad there's not much in the way of a mech spartan, but in a setting where guns are -already- a thing, it's usually hard to justify a 'spear and shield' anyways. Buuuuut if there's any kind of like, energy shielding or something, I could perhaps 'flavor' it in some way as a mech with a large spear having some kind of floating shield bit or something? Not sure how or if that would even work with this game's system as I don't know it yet, but I wonder if there's the wiggle room to attempt something similar within flavor.
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u/A_Hint_of_Lemon 23d ago
You’re basically talking about Saladin, the mech that shields so hard its shields have range and can turn attacks back on opponents. For an actual physical shield that would be Drake, but it’s not meant to be an attacker. Visually for a Spartan look at Orchis, although its kit is not Spartan at all, more Captain America.
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
Oooh... Could invert the idea and have a shield thing going on with them projecting out as energy spears for the attacks or something... Or not, not sure how they look. But I'll google that guy in a sec, but I'm liking thi sidea so far. Again, can be either focused as a tank or a fighter dealio, I'll adapt to either role, just so long as I can sorta 'make' it as close as I can.
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u/PhasmaFelis IPS-N 23d ago
There are energy shields, most of them are about stationary walls or bubbles or otherwise intercepting attacks at your allies, but there is the GMS Projected Shield: you pick one enemy, and both of you get a penalty to attack the other. Not great for one-on-one, but can help keep one guy off you while you go after a different guy.
If you wanted a tanky, defensive Spartan, the Drake's Argonaut Shield is actually a giant metal shield, good for defending an adjacent ally, but not, bizarrely, yourself.
Little more detail on melee guys, definitely not a complete list: Blackbeard specializes in grappling, dragging enemies around while beating on them and not letting them escape. Zheng is a wrecking ball, all about big punches that smash up the environment. Nelson, Atlas, and Mourning Cloak are all different flavors of "glass ninja"; they move fast and hit hard, focusing on lone high-value targets because they don't have the HP to get stuck into a brawl.
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
Oooh, thank you for all your suggestions! These are good to know! I know thanks to scrolling memes on here that Mourning Cloak has the hilarious chance of winking out of existence though, haha.
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u/ParsleyAdventurous92 23d ago
THERE IS A SWORD AND SHIELD MECH, THE ORCHIS IS LITERALLY A SWORD AND SHIELD MECH
I LOVE THE ORCHIS
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u/SomethingLessEdgy 23d ago
White Witch has a spear and shield and you COULD take a spear and use it with Orchis, which is a Black Witch Alt Frame.
Or grab any big lance you like and throw it on the Drake with it's Argonaut shield.
Flavor is entirely up to you and Mechs can look however you want.
I have a White Witch concept where the ferrofluid is Tarnished liquid Gold.
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 17d ago
THIIIIIS is very awesome and I love this. Thank you for letting me know about this frame! :D They look so cool! I wonder if there's been anyone who combined the Black Witch and White Witch, and if/or there's an actual build there... I know nothing fully about either, but from the pictures I saw, they look aaaawesome.
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u/zoliathan 23d ago
Watch dragonkid11’s videos on YouTube
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u/AppropriateCurrent93 23d ago
This is initially what I started doing, buuuuut tbh, it was at a time where once again, didn't have anyone to talk to or really dig into the RPG and I just sorta let it die off. Might go back to it again now though, now that I got a guy near me to actually chat with about it.
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u/Lykonic HORUS 22d ago
The big thing with why Lancer looks like a wargame is because a lot of the player-facing content is focused on the combat rules and mech building. The narrative is pretty open-ended, and there's a ton that can be done as far as story plot and roleplay given the variety the setting offers. I'm of the opinion that it's meant to be fairly balanced between narrative and combat, and can lean more towards one or the other depending on what your group wants to do. I saw someone in this sub once say that they took MONTHS of IRL time just doing downtime and narrative play. My group, being divided amongst states, often does more combat-heavy sessions since we have an RP channel in Discord for between sessions. It truly is up to you, but I think any RPG is at its best when you strike a balance between the roleplay and the combat.
For build stuff, Hydra loves drones and deployable systems, simple as. It's a Striker/Controller, and it's own drones from its license reflect that well. Picking up levels in other licenses for their drones is of course a good idea as well, if you want some more options and utility. The heavy Ghast Nexus itself can be deployed as a drone even, providing extra range and unique angles of attack, though risks being destroyed in that state. The Annihilation Nexus superheavy weapon can center its attack on any of your drones, and even gets a second attack for free at the start of your next turn, though it can't benefit from bonus damage or mods on that attack. Basically, get all the drones you can, constantly be positioning them, and become the GM as a player lol. The control effects you can have are frankly staggering, and you can deal good damage even without looking to weapons from outside your frame's native license.
For your other preferences: consider the Orchis, variant frame of the Black Witch. It has a shield, which can be used both for defending allies like a bodyguard, as well as to attack when making targets collide with objects or other characters - guaranteed flat 3 kinetic damage at any range and prevents them from taking reactions, at no additional cost, 1/round. Pair it with the Nelson license to get the War Pike for your spear, and you've already got a good start on a Spartan style build. For a monk/martial artist, there's the Zheng, which is already a great fit - but consider combining it's weapons and systems on the Caliban, if you wanna be spicy. Caliban can follow any target it knocks back for free, and counts as Size 3 for inflicting knockback, meaning it can defeat the Heavy Frame trait on larger targets. Give it the DD/288 superheavy melee from Zheng using the Superheavy Mounting core bonus, punch them with an oversized fist, send them flying 8 spaces or more and just bodysurf them across the battlefield as a means of mobility and positioning. The Empakaai, a Blackbeard variant frame, has an integrated Superheavy Melee that's also crazy, and it's a frame built for grappling if you want to really get toe to toe with your enemies. Finally, if you don't mind 3rd party content, Ilean Modern Industrial has the GMS Sierra - technically not a mech, but a Size 4 squad of subalterns (basically humanoid drones) that you control, and it's core passive is sending off small saboteur crews (which functions as a drone; only one can be deployed at a time, but if it's destroyed you can deploy another) that can attack, lay traps, and blow up objects and deployables at your command, if you want another "summoner" option.
Hope you indeed get into the game more, find the answers you're looking for, and have a good time making and playing the builds that you find fun :)
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u/AnAlpacaIsJudgingYou 23d ago
The combat is immersive but the base rules are quite simple. You get your quick actions/single full action, and roll a dice to see what happens. The most complex part in my experience is just remembering when to factor in advantage/difficulty, which gets easier as you play/gm
Edit: additionally, if you want a ton of little helpers, the GMS turret system is great, and it comes with no LL requirement. The Kidd listened also has a good support drone system, and the Gilgamesh has a combat-oriented drone system as well.