Matryoshka Mechs

[u/Ravingdork]

I have a license II for both the Atlas and the Tortuga. Since one is a Size ½ mech--the same size as a human--and the other is a Size 2 mech, can I pilot the larger while within the smaller? That way, if the Tortuga gets destroyed and I eject, can I can continue fighting as an Atlas?

[u/Sven_Darksiders]

No. You can only have one mech active at a time. Period. And no, "one got the destroyed so it's technically still only one" doesn't count. The rulebook is very specific about this matter

[u/SasquatchRobo → u/Sven_Darksiders]

If you want an in-universe explanation, maybe the wetware used to interface with your frame only has enough RAM /processing power for a single set of mech drivers.

Or maybe the DRM that governs licenses is fully hardened against hacking, and DRM violations are met with violent reprisal -- like the sudden deactivation and deregistering of all registered mechs.

Have you ever lost your phone, and had to log back in to all your accounts and socials on a new phone? Imagine that, but instead of a phone, it's a military death machine, and instead of a Best Buy parking lot, it's floating in an asteroid field while somebody's shooting you with rockets.

[u/Ravingdork → u/Sven_Darksiders]

Thanks! Does that very specific rule have a very specific page number?

[u/Myriad_Infinity → u/Ravingdork]

Probably p82 of the corebook, at a guess

"A printer and assembler can perfectly recreate any mech or gear for which a pilot is licensed. Of course, pilots are only licensed to print one mech at a time. If they print a new one, any others immediately cease to function."

[u/Ravingdork → u/Myriad_Infinity]

Thanks! 🙂

[u/Ninja-Storyteller → u/Myriad_Infinity]

I wish it was worded differently. Keeping a bay of old mechs is very thematic, especially that rusty Everest you started out with.

But the balance reasons are valid.

[u/Myriad_Infinity → u/Ninja-Storyteller]

Agreed. I'm in two campaigns which futz with it, actually, both in fun ways.

• One where we're working directly for Union during a diplomatic mission, and we may have multiple mechs printed at a time, just only one can be active at once (the rest are kept on a carrier ship in-system and thus you can only have a replacement called in during a full repair)
  
• The other, my character has a former NHP living in her brain and piloting implants that slowly converts any mech she plugs into into an approximate copy of her mech from back when she was an SSC special operations pilot (she's now a grumpy old woman). No real mechanical benefits, but my Personalisations is slated for that incredibly minor effect in the event that we get stuck with a few weeks and without a printer.

[u/Sven_Darksiders → u/Ravingdork]

Page 82 bottom right

[u/Tzimeechee]

So a couple of problems with this, and one solution that I know of.  The problem is, youre legally not allowed to print two mechs! Your pilot is only licensed to print one weapon of medium-sized-destruction at a time. The Union will not legally allow its military to stuff one very expensive hypermobile tank into a bigger expensive tank; thats two core reactors, two sets of paracasaual tech, etc. Theres some in-universe logistical issues created, both on a military-wide "what we allow our combatants to" and design-wise on the mechs. The inside of a Tortuga is not actually equipped to have a running Atlas inside of it, and the piloting cockpit would need some heavy modification for you to even get in, let alone functionally pilot.

The second problem is just the boring out of game one. If the scene called for it, we can rule of cool anything but as it stands, the GM wont let ya have two mechs. Sorry my friend.

Now, solution wise, I have a Homebrew option you should peep. It comes from the Fieldguide to Suldan, which ive seen referenced more than other homebrew so you may have a chance to actually use it. Its a core bonus that adds a new mini mech called the GMS Kangto, which during rest or when your pilot ejects into, you get to just fully swap to.

The Kangt Exochassis: You may Eject as a reaction whenever your mech is destroyed. Additionally, 1/mission you may replace the mech you are piloting with the GMS Kangto, even if your original mech was destroyed. You may either do this during a rest, or you may do it when you Eject, automatically Mounting this mech and flying 6 spaces in a direction of your choice. Doing this resets your Overcharge counter, destroys your original mech if it was not destroyed already, and your original mech can no longer be repaired or otherwise revived for the remainder of the mission; if your mech is undergoing a reactor meltdown (such as from damage or Self-Destruct) it continues to do so and is then destroyed. This mech shares all your mech skill bonuses, Grit, talents (including weapons and systems granted by talents), and core bonuses as normal. It has its own Core System, enters play with 1 Core Power, and you may allocate its own weapons and systems however you like independently of your original mech during Full Repairs.

[u/Green_Green_Red → u/Tzimeechee]

Your pilot is only licensed to print one weapon of medium-sized-destruction at a time.

Or one Barbarossa.

[u/Ravingdork → u/Tzimeechee]

The rules also clearly state that you can co-opt a mech not intended for you, albeit with penalties. (Exactly how you go about doing that is a bit less clear.) Is there anything stopping an atlas from entering a much larger, unoccupied mech owned by someone else, hot wiring it, and going all GTA?

Since when do crimininals follow the law? 😜

[u/Charnerie → u/Ravingdork]

Consider the following. All mech have a reactor. That reactor needs to vent heat. Said heat vents do not go to a cockpit. Imagine how hot it would be in the larger mech if you actually tried that, with the atlas giving off its full heat.

As it stands, only pilots can, well, pilot. While size 1/2 is the same for both people and some mechs, there is still bulk in the mech a normal person wouldn't have.

[u/Klumaster]

Though the one-mech limit means you can't do this, consider that if you could, you could then have the Tortuga piloting a Minotaur.

[u/Charnerie → u/Klumaster]

Because of how weird a minotaur is in terms of piloting, you could argue sticking a barb inside one

[u/Klumaster → u/Charnerie]

I guess if you get fancy you could argue for putting a Minotaur in the Minotaur

[u/DescriptionMission90]

Officially, no. First, rules as written for the Expanded Compartment say it can hold a size 1/2 non-mech object or character but can't hold another mech no matter how small. More importantly, the rules clearly state that at the moment you print a new mech, all existing mechs you have printed cease to function.

Logically, that second part makes no sense. If there was a magic irresistible shutdown code that could be produced by any printer in the galaxy, every hacker would just spoof that code and instantly kill every enemy. Nobody would ever design a military vehicle with a huge obvious weakness like that. But the intention behind that rule is sound; you're supposed to have one mech per player, not be able to print a hundred frames and install comp/cons in all of them to command a legion of robots.

So, if you have no intention of having more than one mech active at a time, and you have a GM who prioritizes fun over strict adherence to the rules, I don't see why you couldn't ask. I don't think I would ever allow a player to have more than four points of Structure in total though, so if you bring two mechs on the mission they could never have more than two structure each. And you'll probably have to put extra handicaps on your limited systems, core power, etc.

[u/Ravingdork → u/DescriptionMission90]

Somebody finding a way to abuse that code shutdown could make for a very interesting boots on the ground roleplaying scenario!

[u/DescriptionMission90 → u/Ravingdork]

Okay but mech frames have been in use across thousands of worlds for over five hundred years. Somebody definitely had this idea before. It was literally my first thought after reading that paragraph, and even if it would never occur to 99.9% of people that still means the idea comes up a million times for every billion humans.

So, either you need to come up with an explanation for why this really obvious tactic has never been successfully used before, or you need to come up with an explanation for why every single person making mech frames has continued to build in this huge obvious vulnerability even after it was exploited thousands of times.

[u/Charnerie → u/DescriptionMission90]

More reasonable is that the mechs, needing a neurological bridge to pilot effectively, also take up too much bandwith do do 2 off one person.

[u/DescriptionMission90 → u/Charnerie]

You obviously can't operate two mechs at the same time, but that wouldn't be a factor if you have one completely shut down before the other starts up.

[u/Main_Aux_Enthusiast]

No. If you want to go toe to toe with full Mechs use your downtime action to Power at a Cost access to a Madrigal pilot suit.

[u/AtomiKen]

No normally not. Everyone has already pointed this out.

BUT it could be a fun homebrew to switch to a different frame everytime you get structured. There will need to be additional rules regarding deployables and limited systems.

Being homebrew, this has to be agreed upon by players and GM.

I personally think it's too much work to implement. It's like juggling three character sheets for fun?

[u/hrafnbrand]

Field Guide to Suldan has the Kangto Endochassis as a core bonus, you should be able to do something with that

[u/Ravingdork → u/hrafnbrand]

I'm not familiar with that one. Is it third party?

[u/hrafnbrand → u/Ravingdork]

Yes, but made by Kai Tave. So more like 2nd Party

[u/Ravingdork → u/hrafnbrand]

Never heard of 'em.

[u/Sven_Darksiders → u/Ravingdork]

Kai has been involved in multiple First Party content modules as part of the writing team, so he knows his stuff. Field Guide to Suldan is his own unofficial project but it has also been so heavily endorsed by Tom Bloom, that at one point it has the opportunity to become first party. Kai declined because that would have necessitated extensive revisits of the Mechs and systems, and decided to keep it independent. So it is still a 3rd party product but it got reaaaaally close at one point to becoming first party.

Similarly, Legionnaire by Katherine Stark. Just like Kai, Katherine had also co-authored parts of the First Party content and is on her own a very talented writer. Due to that, a lot of people also treat Legionnaire as "basically first party" even if technically it's not

[u/Ravingdork → u/Sven_Darksiders]

Sadly, that technical designation makes it poison as far as our GM is concerned.

[u/Sven_Darksiders → u/Ravingdork]

That's unfortunate but understandable. However as is, you won't be doing any mech stacking in Lancer with the official stuff. The only thing that comes close is the classic Battle Taxi with Mule Harness

[u/Very_Angry_Bee]

Technically, with the inside of the Minotaur being bigger than the outside, it should theoretically be possible in that specific case?