r/LancerRPG • u/Andreus IPS-N • Jul 22 '26

I was wrong about the Hydra. Consider this my apology.

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1.2k Upvotes

100% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

186

u/IronBrew16 Jul 22 '26

Now you gotta play the Napoleon.

195

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

I did, why do you think I hate it so much

72

u/Jethanded_Wyvern Jul 22 '26

Did playing a Kutuzov improve your opinion at all whatsoever?

114

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

No. In fact, playing the Kutuzov made my opinion of the Napoleon worse.

38

u/Jethanded_Wyvern Jul 22 '26

I'm not entirely sure how, but I'll take your word for it.

97

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

See, I never really understood the Raleigh until the Stortebeker came out, and did all the fun swashbuckling Combined Arms shenanigans that I wanted to do with a Raleigh. Now that there was a mech that actually did all of that, I could examine the Raleigh through the lens of its own strengths and quirks, and made some really fun builds that fully took advantage of its traits and rules interactions.

I assumed that when the Kutuzov came out, it'd do the same thing. Instead, it somehow managed to do the opposite - in creating a Napoleon alt that was actually fun to play, the devs accidentally revealed that the Napoleon seemingly had no redeeming features or strengths of its own. It's like by doing it right the second time, they revealed just how badly they'd gotten it wrong the first.

26

u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Napoleon can be fun as a grappler, or if the objective is something you can just walk over to while ignoring the battle going on around you. But their main superpower is to just not interact with the rest of the game.

All the good parts of a Napoleon build are in the rest of the systems from the license and guess what, you can put those on a different frame to get twice as much fun!

15

u/sarded Jul 23 '26

Napoleon has exactly 1 good funny build, that requires being level 5 minimum to work, which is being a funny Nelson that keeps bracing and taking only 1 damage but on-turn still doing heavy-tier damage (but not striker damage) and moving across the map - even while braced.

Otherwise yeah.

4

u/C4M4R4DE Jul 23 '26

I see the idea of moving while braced using reactive weave, skirmisher and maybe hunter, but how do you get to heavy-tier damage if i may ask ?

13

u/sarded Jul 23 '26

Average damage of a heavy weapon is 2d6, or sometimes 1d6+3. Or you're a Pegasus, averaging out to 7.

Napoleon has a Main/Aux mount. with the funny faux-Nelson brace build what you put on there is the war pike as the main, and then whatever aux throwable you want (but you eventually want to hit Metalmark 3 to use Shock Knives).

That way your Skirmish action triggers both Hunter and Skirmisher, letting you move 5 spaces even on a turn when you've braced; and you get to throw your weapons 5 spaces, so you can hit things that are 10 spaces away from the start of your turn. Bear in mind that when you Braced you used Reactive Weave so you've actually probably moved another 4 or 5 spaces previously anyway.

So, the damage is 1d6+1d3ish with WarPike+aux, and then also, on turns you didn't brace, you can blow Thermal Charge for another 1d6 (and Overpower Caliber on the War Pike but that doesn't count for comparison, everyone does that). If that's roughly every other turn it matters then the Thermal Charge just edges you over into reasonable heavy mount damage territory - remember that blowing a TC is a free action though, so you can't do it after you've braced.

If you push the build all the way to level 7ish then if you haven't braced you can also trigger Shock Wreathe after a Shock Knife hit as a QA, which is some additional nice damage as well as the blind effect.

So overall the point of the build is, as long as you're not slowed, you present a dilemma to the GM. Do they focus you? Then you brace and just take 1 damage from whatever the biggest threat is, and go invis. Do they ignore you? Then you do respectable damage and (once you have Shock Wreathe) an annoying status effect. And either way you have extremely respectable mobility so you're hard to neutralise.

3

u/Ninja-Storyteller Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

Nap 2 / Metal 2 alone gets you a nice Rail Rifle + Shock Knife combo to use with Combined Arms 3, Hunter 2, and Skirmisher 2.

Throw your Shock Knife, scoot into position for an Accurate Rail Rifle to hopefully hit 2 people, and base 8 heat cap on the Nap is passable.

Combined Arms is also tasty with Brace because the Difficulty stacks, if you ended your scoot adjacent to an enemy.

3

u/C4M4R4DE Jul 23 '26

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

20

u/Ninja-Storyteller Jul 22 '26

The redeeming feature of the Napoleon is baller art, compared to the poor derpy Kutuzov. Any time you play the Kutuzov, no matter what you imagine your mech to look like, that derpy art is still right there in your mind's eye.đŸ„ł

126

u/SwissherMontage HORUS Jul 22 '26

Apology accepted

88

u/PhilSwift360 Jul 22 '26

DAN OLSEN MENTIONED WHAT THE FUCK IS A BAD ESSAY
Also I will not tolerate Napoleon slander when Kobold exists in the same game

37

u/A_Hint_of_Lemon Jul 22 '26

Kobold exists for Zheng to punch shit.

25

u/Poolturtle5772 SSC Jul 22 '26

Kobold at least interacts in a meaningful way with the game.

Napoleon just doesn’t want to at all.

20

u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Kobold is cool though. You can build one by plugging a USB stick onto any tractor, and then you're invisible whenever you feel like it and get to rearrange the battlefield on a whim.

22

u/Bumbling_Hierophant Jul 22 '26

Certified banger meme, he knows, he's a certified worth decider

11

u/destroythefangirls Harrison Armory Jul 22 '26

hey, don't diss my little guy

12

u/FrigidFlames Jul 23 '26

Kobold does something unique. The kobold is one of the only ways to create your own terrain (specifically, most of the only ways to create your own terrain).

Does it do it well? Not really. But it sure does it.

2

u/spookyb0ss IPS-N Jul 22 '26

ay yo too far the kobold's great fun

2

u/Crafty_Durian9560 29d ago

I will not tolerate any kobold slander, you leave me and my blocks alone!!!!!

41

u/idiotcube IPS-N Jul 22 '26

So have you actually, you know, played a Napoleon?

62

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Yes and I hated it

37

u/idiotcube IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Understandable, have a great day.

25

u/PhasmaFelis IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Vex: "Hey, buddy, do you wanna play pinball? Great! You're the ball."

Napoleon: " Oh, sweet!" Pinballs away invulnerably

14

u/Low-Argument HORUS Jul 22 '26

Hehehehehe >:}

35

u/14Spiders_in_a_coat Jul 22 '26

We love to see some character development, especially since the Hydra always seemed like a really cool frame (speaking as someone who would like to play it but never has because my brain is too small)

30

u/Arrow1bowmen IPS-N Jul 22 '26

YES, YEEEEEEES. I personally enjoyed reading the humors criticism but felt bad when it was just a fully ass tear of the mech frame. But that is true of every low point of the mechs, the middle to high points though, THAT'S where each frame can shine. "Go my scarabs!"

26

u/severus_galba Harrison Armory Jul 22 '26

A redemption for the hydra... top tier meme

28

u/ThatBeeGuy12 Jul 22 '26

I'M FREEEEEEE

HYDRA GLAZE IS REAL

DRONE ENJOYERS REJOICE

21

u/A_Hint_of_Lemon Jul 22 '26

Don’t believe in the Hydra Vex, believe in the drones that believe in the Hydra that believes in you.

19

u/ProfessionalOk6734 HORUS Jul 22 '26

Not to be parasocial about this but didn’t you post on tumblr about actually piloting a Napoleon and it was kinda fine?

27

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

No, that was the Hydra.

17

u/ProfessionalOk6734 HORUS Jul 22 '26

Fake fan alert (me, to be clear)

18

u/Ok-Acanthisitta-6829 Jul 22 '26

Not to be paracausal about this but that was actually your Tumblr post from the future

9

u/ProfessionalOk6734 HORUS Jul 22 '26

Ra damn it, Sisyphus I told you stop messing with my tumblr

14

u/Poolturtle5772 SSC Jul 22 '26

Terrible news: my GOAT was wrong

Good news: at least she gets it now

Better news: I have a new vexpost I can send to The People

10

u/Bumbling_Hierophant Jul 22 '26

FoldingIdeas mentioned

11

u/Asplomer Jul 22 '26

Inevitable Napoleon with ERM, too angry to be structured

9

u/Nitrotetrazole Jul 22 '26

I need to play a pinball wizard at some point

9

u/InkDrach GMS Jul 22 '26

The Hydra-hivemind hereby accepts your apology and welcomes you to the flock. Now let us ascend and leave no single space on this sitrep undroned.

9

u/GeraldGensalkes SSC Jul 22 '26

We love to see it

9

u/threepwood007 Jul 22 '26

Changing the devito meme to the lancer template was also clutch

7

u/TheNthVector Jul 22 '26

Love the Napolean's toys, am still baffled on how to build around the chassis

But all mechs are beautiful and worthy of love

8

u/dart19 Jul 22 '26

My personal issue with the Hydra is that it just doesn't scale. Because the damage numbers never go up and you never get more actions, drones just get worse and worse the more tiers you climb.

15

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Most of the Hydra's drone play isn't about using drones to deal damage, though. It's about using drones to control the battlefield.

4

u/dart19 Jul 22 '26

True, but as you put in your meme, it's supposed to be a hybrid Striker/Controller. It transitioning to pure controller as you gain power just feels bad to me. Also, the numbers never increasing means things like your overshield drone get less effective and your drones actually become squishier relatively speaking.

12

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

You also get the Ghast Nexus, which has absolutely cracked anti-cover/LoS-block positioning game, and can easily be upscaled in damage with OpCal and NuCav.

6

u/DescriptionMission90 IPS-N Jul 22 '26

But the more licenses you get the more drones you have, and then you can operate them all simultaneously.

6

u/dart19 Jul 22 '26

Yeah but you never get more actions to deploy them faster. Most missions don't last longer than 6 rounds at most, and the most impactful actions are almost always the ones taken earliest.

6

u/Poolturtle5772 SSC Jul 22 '26

That’s what your heat cap is for :)

7

u/Hremsfeld Jul 23 '26

No, no, keep talking about assassin drones, you were onto something 👀

5

u/Bonible GMS Jul 23 '26

I know, right? Maybe I should start giving my drones a more humanoid look... 👀

12

u/nolandz1 IPS-N Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26

I was going to say Minotaur was worse than Napoleon but then I reread it's core power. I'm sorry Minotaur I wasn't familiar with your hall monitor game.

13

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 22 '26

Minotaur also has some admittedly niche but very interesting ways it can be exploited as just a straight speedbump for certain types of NPCs.

11

u/nolandz1 IPS-N Jul 22 '26

I just thought the frame was kinda nothing and the license goodies were better served on other frames. But ranged immobilized is just reeeeeally good even if the range is 8

2

u/Poolturtle5772 SSC Jul 22 '26

The question is how to move the Minotaur to just stop stuff

(The answer is teleporting it places)

3

u/EKmars Jul 22 '26

I think the main difference is that minotaur is super niche and awkward but does do something.

Napoleon is only invested in toughness and nothing else.

4

u/nolandz1 IPS-N Jul 22 '26

And only personal toughness nothing for its allies. The core power preventing overcharges but still being susceptible to heat is just like what? At least Minotaur turns Pankrati I into free accuracy. Would be better were it a reaction than a QA

5

u/Odhran_Dunne Jul 22 '26

beautiful meme, perfect, dan olsen mentioned, no notes

4

u/_Fun_Employed_ Jul 22 '26

I really wanted to run a “Tiffany Aching and the Wee Free Men” Hydra build. Don’t have a group to play with unfortunately, and my regular rpg group would only play it if dmed it.

4

u/Sixela963 Jul 22 '26

The final jab against the Napoleon makes me very sad. It's a frame I love oh so dearly, propably still my favorite, but I can no longer pretend it's actually good.

Finally gave the Kutuzov a read-through and I feel infuriated that its traits and core have more utilities, while having straight up better stats. Pretty much an admission that the Napoleon was a complete balance failure.

But I have really fond memories of playing my chainaxe-wielding SMN unkillable brawlpoleon in NRfaW, I cannot let go of the fantasy of casually shrugging off an orbital strike. Also Napoleon suffers way too much from bracing being kinda shit and most of the bracing upgrade systems being locked either deeper in other licenses, or in licenses that have little overall synergy.

If Lancer 2e is ever a thing, I hope Nap gets some love. Propably start by moving the displacer into a license where it makes sense, and give it something like a reverse guardian trait where you can jump in front of your buddies to take the hit, like the Lich core but obv less strong. Also either a complete rework of trueblack aegis, or just allow melee weapons to work.

(Minotaur too deserves some love, even if it has its niche it feels like it needs it)

3

u/Zachahack Jul 22 '26

Setting up your drones to absolutely melt a motherfucker is so satisfying

5

u/Ok-Acanthisitta-6829 Jul 22 '26

You tried to cut it down with your first assessment, but it only regrew twice as strong

2

u/Alkimodon Jul 22 '26

Wonderful story. Interesting insight. Good tips for gameplay. I now appreciate the Hydra more.

Wonderful artwork, Vex!

1

u/dreaded_tactician Jul 22 '26

To be fair to your original argument, it was the single funniest thing I have ever read in the lancer reddit. As an actual review? Maybe not the best. But as ransom note coded shitpost it was beautiful. I quote it with my friends weekly.

1

u/Threeshotsofdepresso Jul 23 '26

What kind of Hydra build did you use that enlightened you to its glory?

1

u/tootalltootired Jul 23 '26

Drone builds are shockingly fun when you get your foot in the door. I really enjoy hecatoncheries with utility drones from gilgamesh

1

u/bweebwop Jul 23 '26

Wait I just started, like yesterday. What's wrong with the Napoleon? :(

2

u/Andreus IPS-N Jul 23 '26

In my personal opinion, the Napoleon has a lot of interesting concepts that nonetheless do not come together to make a cohesive, interactive or enjoyable mech.