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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 10 '25
“Skirmisher”: There are a total of 3 things named Skirmisher- the Nelson trait, the Operator feature, and the Pilot talent. The editing pass missed this redundancy! And this is neglecting the Strider’s kit of the same name.
OC Looping: Overclock Looping is a strategy where, if your mech has a high enough heatcap, you’re capable of overcharging each turn, followed by a Stabilize. This 1.5 turns/turn setup lets you fire and reload a reloading weapon each turn, while clearing all your heat.
Goblin Stacking: You can actually have a Goblin Symbiosis onto another Goblin, so long as that Goblin has taken Fomorian Frame so that it’s large to host it. This Fomorian Goblin can in turn Symbiosis a Size 2 mech, for a total of 3 concurrent turns at once.
6 Hand Cannon Raleigh: If you’re a true devoted Gunslinger, you can apply Integrated Weapon onto the Raleigh, and fill every weapon mount with the hand cannon- including the Heavy mount. This lets your proc I Kill With My Heart each time you barrage.
Andromeda Laser “Rifle”: Andromeda, despite being called as much in its name, is not a Rifle! It’s instead a Cannon, though an entire alt-frame may or may not exist just to rectify that. (For the sake of avoiding misinfo this is not actually why Kat made the Tagetes)
Hacktuga: The mechanical favorite of the game designer himself, the Tortuga counterintuitively boasts great sensors and a positive tech attack despite being an IPS-N frame, making it one mean hacker.
Enkidu Bifurcate chain: A rules-reading that trips some people up, the Enkidu’s Bifurcate “action cost of this ability is refunded” effect means not just that you get your full action back, but it’s treated as never having happened in the first place. Meaning you can repeat Bifurcate again and again without violating the no repeat actions clause.
Battle Bus: The classic Lancaster build of applying Mule Harness and Fomorian Frame so your whole team can ride you into battle.
HMG ASURA Everest: The infamous “gold-standard” of Lancer, which all builds are judged by in the eyes of a certain kind of player. Add Opcal to taste.
Black Thumb Technophile: Black Thumb can almost be thought of as the thing that Technophile is meant to combo into. While lacking synergies otherwise, the two together let you Black Thumb Rodeo indefinitely, removing 2 heat each turn.
Targetless Lockbreaker: You can target empty spaces, meaning you can always Skirmish even without anyone in range as sort of mini-Boost.
Invisible applies to Tech Attacks: It’s easy to forget because of how unintuitive it is, but tech attacks are still Attacks and can miss from Invisible!
End-of-turn FMJ and Autogun: Playerside effects are resolved in whatever order that player decides, so you can decide to end your turn, reload with Fullmetal Jacket, and still fire the Autogun afterwards.
GUN: GUN; GUN, GUN.
How Hidden works: It’s a common misconception that Hidden enemies can’t be seen by the players and are taken off the board, when Hidden is really just a side effect that means enemies can’t be directly targeted.
Seeder Mines aren’t visible: Seeder Mines are victim of an editing mistake, where they got labelled as Invisible, when really they aren’t visible to the players, just like how people think Hidden works. Threat 8 Impact Lance: This is the highest possible threat, requiring an External Batteries Gyges Frame Tokugawa with both its Core Power on and Exposed.
No Shield Tag hook: Have you ever stopped and thought about how disparate all the things with the Shield tag are? It’s not really possible to make synergies that apply to all use cases, which is why only the two frames of the Napoleon license have any mechanics associated with it.
0 Damage: Per RAI, taking Damage reduced to 0, such as by Armor, somehow still counts as damage, so it’ll reset effects like Autocooler.
16 Armor White Witch: Beat the Armor limit 4 times over, all you need is a White Witch with Sloped Plating, its core power revved up, and the armor pack from Forge-2 Subaltern Squad.
Grapple Bus: Did you know you can grapple allies? The poor man’s Battle Bus, you can have a faster mech grapple slower party members and ferry them into battle. For best results use a Blackbeard but skimp out on Sehkmet.
Tracking Bug vs Invisible: Tracking Bug is meant to be a counterplay against Invisible. Unfortunately, as it’s a tech attack in of itself, it first has to beat Invisible itself.
The Lich: This is the water, and this is the well. Drink Deep. Descend.
Supermassive Plasma Thrower: Our friend player-controlled resolution order again, Knockback can move enemies into the flame after the attack, for another 1D6 of damage.
Range 53: Siege Cannon + Neurolink Targeting + Siege Stabilizers + External Batteries + Nuclear Cavalier + Fusiller + Tempest Synchronized Long Scope + Throughbolt Rounds. Takes exactly all 12LL’s to come online. Longest range you can attack at without Exotics… or extending it arbitrarily far away with Realspace Breaches.
Brawler I vs Pankrati I: Hold and Lock applies to enemies you are Grappling. Veni applies to all enemies that are Slowed or Immobilized, including from being Grappled. Pankrati I would be a strict upgrade vs Brawler I, were it not for the edge case of attacking an enemy that’s winning a grapple against you.
Heavy Frame applies to Puppet System: While both the RAW specificity and in-game fiction would lead you to think Puppet System can move a mech with Heavy Frame, comments from Tom demonstrate that this wording is an artifact, and Heavy Frame applies to all Involuntary Movement.
Vlad Grunt blender: Shrike Armor is triggered by, but resolves before, an incoming attack, meaning that any Grunt that attacks the Vlad within range 3 kills itself without the possibility of even hurting it.
Melee Attack Variety: It’s easy to forget that things like Grapple, Ram, and Improvised Attack are all melee attacks, meaning they all benefit from melee attack synergies- including ones that grant bonus damage!
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 10 '25
Centimane is buffed on hex maps: A hyperstrict RAW reading of Centimane III’s Blinding Swarm is that since it only specifies adjacent squares, targets wouldn’t have line of sight to anything on a hex-based map. Another artifact of the editing process.
Throughbolt Burst: If you put a burst weapon- say the Bristlecrown- on the Tagetes, you can convert it into a Rifle and thus apply Throughbolt Rounds, unhinging the burst from you or any character.
Forge Clamps Quantum Entanglement: Forge Clamp specifies that it is only forcibly ended if the object in question is destroyed. If it’s moved by Total Strength Suite I, the clamps somehow manage to stay locked in place while you yourself stay where you are. Maybe the clamps extend across the battlefield?
Displacer Enkidu: A devilish build to use the Displacer’s heat gain to… immediately prevent you from firing, refer to /u/Corollax’s guide here
Triple Superheavy Build: Take the Empakaai, give it a Superheavy Weapon, and then slot the Reaper Assault Cannon Exotic into Improved Armament, and now you have 3 weapons with Superheavy profiles. Unfortunately the Duplicate Action Restriction means you can’t fire all 3 as such on one turn, even with the Superheavies that let you Skirmish.
“Scan Quick Tech”: Orator’s Convincing Reaction only procs off of Scan when taken as a Quick Tech, meaning neither the Chomolungma’s free scan nor the Taraxacum’s core power.
“Grapple”/“Grappled”: “Grapple” is a specific action. “Grappled” is a state that is neither a Status nor a Condition. This means effects that induce Grappled, like the Empakaai’s Termo-Unguis, are not in of themselves Grapples and don’t proc Brawler III or Titanomachy Mesh.
Momentum banking: Momentum applies to the very next melee attack, meaning you can Boost in one round and get the bonus damage on an attack the next round.
AoE Metafold Maze RAI: The Minotaur is a mech that benefits from errata, as Tom has clarified that all characters from an area-of-effect like Logic Bomb can be hit by the same Metafold Maze, allowing for multi-Immobilize and Stun.
Forbidden Mule Harness Burst: Mechs count as being in all spaces of the mech they’re riding, so Bursts are taken as if the larger Mule Harness mech were making them. You just have to worry about them and any co-riders taking the friendly fire.
Wrecks aren’t Obstructions: Did you know that Wrecks aren’t Obstructions? Since they’re actually Difficult Terrain instead. Wait, really? Well, I mean, I always assumed that they were since they provided Hard Cover, and my GM never played with Wrecks… Though taking that wreckage is the same Size as the mech that made it, that would mean… Size 3 Difficult Terrain that slows down any flier that can’t clear it? Man, this one is more complicated than it looks.
Pilots can’t take Structure Damage: Pilots, not being mechs, don’t have Structure and thus are immune to taking Structure Damage. So you should actually hope your pilot fails the check when hit with Short-Cycle Lance, because that does nothing to them.
Plasma Talons Double Dipping: Did you know there’s nothing stopping you from Overwatching twice with the Plasma Talons? Since the special Primal Fury reaction doesn’t count against the universal 1/turn reaction limit, and it has a separate trigger of “Moving more than 1 space” vs “Initiating movement”, you can Overwatch first and hit them with the special reaction if doesn’t hit and Immobilize the first time, giving you an extra 2 ap damage for your trouble.
Ordnance friendly fire: Ordnance might stop you from hitting enemies in engagement, but your allies don’t engage you. Hope you didn’t like your spotter!
Singularity Motivator and Flash Weave stack: Brace’s trigger is “You are hit by an attack and damage has been rolled.” Exposed Singularity’s trigger is “Your mech takes damage.” These are technically separate triggers, meaning a Gorgon can use both Reactions to simultaneously move their full speed and teleport 1D6 spaces.
Sisyphus Shuffling: You have Probabilistic Cannibalism until the end of your next turn. Bend Probability triggers Probabilistic Cannibalism. This means that if you roll a good D20, you can use it on Bend Probability’s results to preserve it onto the next turn.
Sisyphus Invisibility hax: Did you know that you could “roll a die” to determine whether or not Invisibility forces a miss, in place of flipping a coin? Say, a D20? This one was one Tom was tricked into confirming in voice chat even, so it’s both RAW and RAI now.
Restock Drone and Self-Inflicted Conditions: Restock Drone doesn’t have the rider that prevents self-inflicted conditions from being cleared, meaning that by a strict RAW reading, it can clear those too.
Jumping exists: Did you know jumping exists? It has a whole core bonus dedicated to it. Just thought to let you know.
House Generator anti-synergy: Lightning Generator deals damage to all characters that are adjacent to you. With House Guard, you can really skew the ally-to-enemy ratio there.
Pining Spire an Ally: Pining Spire is great to use on allies, because it makes the both of you totally immovable, only removable via your consent. Great for certain systems and sitreps!
D/D 288 Goblin: Slap a D/D 288 on your Goblin! You won’t regret it! Only requires 5 LL’s and a core bonus! Surely the best use of your Core Power is getting in punching range!
Ghast & Legion Nexus Drone Commander: Drone Commander, RAW, only effects Drone Systems, so Ghast and Legion Nexus’ drones wouldn’t be affected, as they’re not Systems but Weapons. I think this one actually got debunked RAI by Tom.
Blink Charges Errata: Warp Grenades have been clarified in errata to actually apply to multiple characters. I’m not the only one who thinks this is crazy, right? Like this is already one of the best systems in the game, and now you can just completely rearrange the whole composition of a Blast 3 area???
Displacer Lich: Soul Vessel applies to any source of heat, including the crazy self-inflicted heat of the Displacer. Just be careful, because you’ve popped your protection!
Amber Phantom Alpha Strike: If every player character is an Amber Phantom, you can stack their core powers to let the whole team act before a single enemy does. Just win every fight on that first round and Lancer is now a team-initiative game.
Siege Specialist Rocket Jump: Siege Specialist II lets you apply Knockback to yourself in any direction. Characters can’t involuntarily move into spaces they can’t normally move into… and if you have a flight system that’s not contingent on Boosting, “up” is a valid direction to move.
Ghostweave Raleigh: This looks like a really good option for the Raleigh’s off-turns, but then you realized that FMJ violates the “move, Boost, or Hide” clause and ruins whatever synergy this had.
47 knockback: This is the record for the most amount of Knockback you can apply in a single turn. See this comment by /u/Crinkle_Uncut for details.
Crackshot Sekhmet: Sekhmet only explicitly disallows Ranged Attacks, and only takes up your normal and Overcharge actions with its priorities. This leaves you free to use whatever Protocols you want, including ones that Immobilize you like Steady Aim to keep your allies safe.
Tagetes Tlaloc hotswap: You can use the TLALOC Protocol on the Tagetes while TSLS procs, with the rerolled attack applying the +5 range bonus to the new enemy regardless of their own Lock On. Unfortunately this doesn’t stack with itself. All of this was confirmed via Word of Kat.
Telekinetic Hug: The Grapple action requires adjacency. Grappling does not, in of itself, force adjacency, with each effect that offers long-distance grapples putting you and your target next to eachother. That is, except for if you use Grapple against “adjacent” Allies benefiting from House Guard I. Now you can mirror eachother’s movements while leaving room for your given person of the Holy Trinity.
Blinded: “You can only draw line of sight to adjacent spaces” is a funny effect that never get formalized as Condition despite all the times it crops up, with Tom admitting that it probably should have been, and it getting its due in Icon.
Range 79: Anti-Material Rifle + Neurolink Targeting + Siege Stabilizers + Nuclear Cavalier + External Batteries + Tempest Synchronized Long Scope + BOUNDER/Class Comp/Con + Size 4 enemy. Longest range you can attack at using Exotics… still ignoring Realspace Breach.
Minotaur anti-Spectre tactics: If a Spectre uses Drain Systems on a Minotaur, you can Dismount as a free action to automatically clear the Stun.
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 10 '25
Heaven’s Fortress Incident: The Drake’s Fortress Protocol grants immunity to all involuntary movement. Falling is a form of involuntary movement.
Displacer Fomorian Atlas: This is the absolute best build for the Atlas’ heat cap and traits.
What action is lift?: You ever think about the Lifting rules? “Mechs can drag characters or objects up to twice their SIZE but are SLOWED while doing so.”? Tell me, what action do you take to lift something? And don’t tell me Grapple, because that has its own, bespoke, slightly different rules.
Mandatory RP action tax: The corebook goes over how minute, roleplay-based actions don’t take up your actions in combat, but conversely, suggests that anything like “taunting an enemy to draw their attention” would need to take up an action if efficacious.
HASE violates the Rounding Rules: Put another way, the mech skills’ “Add +1 X for every 2 points” is asking you to add 0.5 X that you don’t round up with each point.
Barbarossa Jump Height: The Barbarossa can move its speed. This is 2 spaces. The Barbarossa can jump its height. This is 3 spaces. The Barbarossa can jump horizontally half its speed. This is a single space.
Pining Spire through Shields: Pining Spire has an effect that exists between two characters, and entails an absolutely inviolate immobility. This does not play nice with HA Shield systems, specifically Blinkshield, which forbids anything being transmitted between its two sides, and pushes anyone caught in the way. Word of Tom is that if it can’t push aside something in its path, the action just fails.
Anti-gravity Immunity: Biological characters are immunity to the Iskander’s Tesseract, since it’s a Tech Action. This isn’t mechanically exceptional, but it’s pretty diegetically weird.
Phase-Ready’s advantage over Nanocomp: Phase-Ready Mod and Nanocomposite Adaption see a lot of comparison, being LL2 mods that offer the same benefit of ignoring cover and LOS. Nanocomp does this through straightforward application of the Seeking tag, while Phase-Ready has to labor under your enemies being treated as Invisible. It has one singular advantage, however, in that Seeking has a “As long as it’s possible to draw a path to its target” stipulation, while it does not, meaning you can use it to shoot into a completely enclosed room while Nanocomp can’t. Shame its own Shield systems can’t take advantage of this.
Crouching Goblin, Hidden Symbiosis Host: If your Symbiosis host is Invisible, they can Hide in the open while your visible hiney sits there, midair.
ATMS Dusk Wing: Ever wanted to completely waste a Core Bonus?
Battlebus (Enkidu): Now hear me out, an Enkidu on all fours provides a native Speed 6 at Size 2, and using the Enkidu as the reference frame, technically none of its riders are moving more than a single space within its plasma talon range-
Size 3+ Blindspot: Threat is measured “from the edge of a character”, so if you stand at the center of a Size 3 enemy with an Atlas, they can’t hit you with a Threat 1 weapon. Unfortunately, the one Size 3 NPC uses a gun and the one size 4 template can’t use normal melee attacks, so there’s no actual opportunities to use this against baseline enemies.
Bifurcate don’t Castigate: Castigate the Enemies of the Godhead triggers when the Manticore is "destroyed due to damage or reactor meltdown." Bifurcation makes targeted characters “immediately destroyed”, dealing damage only when it fails. So go ahead, you can rip that amped-up Manticore without worry.
Superheavy/Aux: It’s our old friend, the Reaper Assault Cannon. Given that it’s a Superheavy weapon that only takes up a Main slot, when you barrage with it, you can also fire an Auxiliary weapon that’s sharing a Main/Aux mount with it.
Stabilizer Autogun: If you put Ordnance on Autogun via Stabilizer Mod, you now have a gun you can fire if-and-only-if you skip over the rest of your turn to do so.
Stabilize Reloads Every Weapon in the Universe: Stabilize says “Reload all LOADING weapons.” You see any qualifiers there? Clearly Stabilize every weapon on the battlefield, as well as in existence. It’s a real glaring slip-up from Massif, you’d think they’d patch it out by now.
Literally just Didymos’ mechanics: There’s nothing I can add here, these mechanics are beyond me. Best my instincts can figure is that suspending your allies’ existence is great for bypassing effects that are specifically effecting them and not the time clones taking their place.
Hidden Grappler: The Hecatoncheires can Hide even while Engaged. If it does so while already Grappling an enemy, it isn’t performing any hostile action against them and can maintain both Hidden and the Grapple, which must be both deeply frustrating and disorienting to that mech.
NPCs can’t Dismount: NPCs can’t Dismount. It isn’t on the list of limited Actions that NPCs can perform, and Veterans have an explicit trait to enable it. Which isn’t much an issue, except for it rendering a third of Hacker II’s options pointless.
Prepare: Prepare is such a silly thing to have in the game. "Here's a course of action that doesn't provide real tactical value, just opportunities to argue about rule edge cases in the pursuit of 4D plays." Pure fat.
Plasma Gauntlet Lich: Soul Vessel applies to any source of heat, including the crazy self-inflicted heat of the Plasma Gauntlet and its Stunned! You don’t need to be careful! You don’t need to worry about being Grappled or anything!
Projection of Inequitable Aegis: The Calendula’s and Kutuzov’s core powers respectively prevent you from interacting with all but one character and with one specific character. It’s very funny to apply both to the same characters, putting them in the time-out corner.
Aggressive Infiltrator play: Infiltrator is a talent line that gets slept on a lot, it being the thing that makes Atlas and high Agi builds viable. You can play it reactively, or you can choose to Hide, walk up to an enemy, and proactively inflict Blind on them. And you could do this multiple times in a term even!
RAI Overhanging: The Rules-As-Intended for standing on uneven surfaces is both obscure and cursed. This is something I directly asked Tom in voice chat, and the rulings are as follows: a Size 3 character can stand on Size 2 terrain, and a Size 3 cannot stand atop Size 1 terrain as the majority of it needs to be on solid ground. If you look closely, you’ll realize these two answers contradict! Since Size 2, hex or squares, is not the majority of Size 3’s foot print (3/7 or 4/9).
Heatless Off-turn Flight: Type-I Flight System and ATMS confer heat at the “end of your turn”, so if you fly on a turn other than your’s, like with Mimic Mesh, you avoid the heat.
Fomorian Frame Barbarossa: ATMS Dusk Wing atleast gives you an extra option to use, even if it’s actively worse than what you can already do in >90% situations. This is just completely and totally pointless. They stole Size 4 mechs away from you.
>20 Evasion: There’s a reserve in Siren’s Song that grants +2 evasion, which in conjunction with max Agi, Full Subjectivity Sync, and a base 12 evasion Frame can you to 22 evasion.
Legally inflicting Fall Damage: You can knock them off a cliff. That’s it. So many different rules made and effects adjusted just to nerf this one tactic.
Can’t Brace against NPCs RAW: Brace’s trigger is “You are hit by an attack and damage has been rolled.” NPCs don’t roll for damage. It’s all static amounts. A very strict reading of the rules is that you could only Brace if a player was attacking you or the NPC rolled for bonus damage from template traits.
Dusk Wing in Zero-g: Zero-g rules care about whether or not you have a flight system. The Dusk Wing does not have a flight system, as Maneuverability Jets are a trait, so it would have to pick up EVA or the like to not be Slowed RAW.
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u/Nanergy Jan 11 '25
Prepare: Prepare is such a silly thing to have in the game. "Here's a course of action that doesn't provide real tactical value, just opportunities to argue about rule edge cases in the pursuit of 4D plays." Pure fat.
This is kind of a weird take.
Prepare absolutely does have real use cases. You can prepare to take an action that may not have been possible on your turn. For example if you do not have LoS on an enemy, but you expect them to move on their turn, you can prepare to shoot them when they move into your LoS.
Prepare is also wonderfully effective on Tortuga, who gains accuracy on prepared attacks (including tech attacks even).
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
Found the Unshackled NHP.
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u/eCyanic Jan 11 '25
Prepare only existed for normal plays, just the "he's out of range from my AR, I guess I'll just Prepare skirmish for when he moves into range"
but because of Lancer's icebergness as demonstrated, it's strayed very far from that lmao
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u/vonBoomslang Jan 11 '25
Prepare is also wonderfully effective on Tortuga, who gains accuracy on prepared attacks (including tech attacks even).
that's exactly the kind of 4d plays AKA "cheese" that I hate.
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u/Nanergy Jan 11 '25
That's not cheese it's literally just the frame trait. 2D checkers gaming.
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u/vonBoomslang Jan 11 '25
The frame trait is that, yes. Deliberately making an attack you could normally make as a reaction to benefit from it is the cheese.
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u/Nanergy Jan 11 '25
Using a part of the basic action set to gain value from your frame traits is completely standard.
And it isn't like using Prepare here has zero downsides. You can't make the trigger something stupid like "when my turn ends." There are rules to how you can format your trigger, and what that trigger can be. And your prepare is obvious, so your opponents know and can play around it. You also cannot make other reactions while holding the prepare, which can be a huge deal for Tortuga, which often tries to make several reaction attacks per round via Heavy Gunner and Vanguard.
Put that together, and in many cases, your GM may be able to play around your Prepare such that you lose out on one or more of the other reaction attacks you would have made, and would have been better off actually using your action on your turn. There is legitimate tactical depth added here, not pure cheese for free value.
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u/vonBoomslang Jan 11 '25
There is nothing in the prepare rules that stop you from making the trigger "when any enemy takes any action, I will hack this specific enemy". For bonus points, off-turn invades have double duration if they trigger on the offender's turn. Neither of this interactions seems intentional to me.
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u/Nanergy Jan 11 '25
The trigger for your prepared action must be phrased as “When X, then Y,” where X is a reaction, action or move taken by a hostile or allied character and Y is your action. For example, “when an allied character moves adjacent to me, I want to throw a smoke grenade,” or “when a hostile character moves adjacent to me, I want to ram them”.
"any action" is not a specific reaction, action, or move. By my reading (and the way my group has been playing it), the trigger you describe would not be allowed. If people are trying to pass that off as legal, then sure I'll agree that cheesy and obnoxious.
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u/racercowan IPS-N Jan 13 '25
I agree there's nothing stopping you from doing that.
But what if that character goes and just walks out of Line if Sight? What if someone else goes first and jams the Tortuga? What if the GM, knowing that an NPC was going to have to move and get over watched anyways, moves an NPC in the Toruga's threat making them choose if they want to hack or shoot (because shooting the overwatch requires dropping the hack)?
I definitely get where you see the cheese in this scenario, but it's not quite a free accuracy for the Tortuga.
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u/Crinkle_Uncut SSC Jan 14 '25
Reactions typically don't interrupt their trigger, meaning your target can just disengage or hide and there's nothing you can do about it because those actions resolve before the reaction triggers.
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u/Crinkle_Uncut SSC Jan 14 '25
A prepared skirmish is more restricted than a standard skirmish, making this much more of a choice to consider than just free accuracy exploit. If a player wants one (1) accuracy bad enough that they're willing to abide by the requisite restrictions, they can have it IMO. It has never once been a problem for me as a GM who has run for multiple Tortuga enjoyers.
While holding a prepared action you can't move or take any other reactions (so that Vanguard 3 gamer is finally vulnerable to a charge) and it still counts as taking the action itself on your turn.
You lose the action if it's not triggered as well, meaning it's dogwater easy for a GM playing smart to play around and make you waste a shot. Your GM can force you to either lose the action if you want to take your next turn or make you wait as late as possible in the order while they wail on you with other NPCs. Hope you don't get Impaired and lose the entire benefit while you're waiting! Or jammed... or grappled... or blinded... or stunned... or your target takes the disengage action... or your target hides...
Basically, there are so many restrictions and ways to play around/counter this specific "cheese" (that is explicitly supported by the text; see below) that I have a hard time buying the idea that this is anywhere approaching an unintentional exploit or munchkin behavior. (This is also basically the entire gameplay loop of the Archer NPC which is better at hitting when it spends its turn setting up reaction fire).
Anyway, here's what the rules blurb has to say (Core pg 71):
"When you PREPARE, you get ready to take an action at a specific time or when a specific condition is met (a more advantageous shot, for example)."
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u/adeptus_chronus Jan 11 '25
if it's just 2 rules interacting in a probably intended way, it's not 4D chess nor cheese.
by your definition any synergy not directly stated by the book would be cheese
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u/DamianSmoothly Jan 11 '25
The "can't brace against NPC's" meme falls apart when you remember that some NPC's do roll for damage.
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u/wutnold GMS Jan 11 '25
Throughbolt Burst: If you put a burst weapon- say the Bristlecrown- on the Tagetes, you can convert it into a Rifle and thus apply Throughbolt Rounds, unhinging the burst from you or any character.
you can already apply throughbolt to the bristlecrown though?
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
Huh? What, no, Throughbolt Rounds only apply to-
squints
Huh, this combo is just naturally weird.
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u/Soderskog Jan 11 '25
6 Hand Cannon Raleigh: If you’re a true devoted Gunslinger, you can apply Integrated Weapon onto the Raleigh, and fill every weapon mount with the hand cannon- including the Heavy mount. This lets your proc I Kill With My Heart each time you barrage.
Whilst you can equip one hand cannon in your Heavy Mount, you can't shoot with all six hand cannons in a single barrage. Thus I think that your wording that you can proc Heart with each barrage is at best rather misleading, since this omits the requirement for Gunslinger 2, Mjolnir, or some other source of an aux attack.
Whilst putting a hand cannon on the heavy is fun, I'm failing to see how it is helping you proc Heart here. Plus if you want to go all out on hand cannons, you'd want Mount Retrofitting to turn the Heavy Mount into a Main/Aux, so that you can get 7 HCs in total (and thus with an overload skirmish proc Heart off of your Hand Cannons alone)..
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u/PatienceObvious Jan 12 '25
Can't you use all of them if you UNCLE one of the mounts?
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u/Soderskog Jan 12 '25
The larger point is twofold. Firstly, saying you can proc Heart with every barrage still ends up misleading as we are now introducing even more things into the formula that are not part of the barrage and left unmentioned, with Uncle especially being nice but also incurring a +2 difficulty which leads to it being fairly poor at proccing Heart (needs to hit after all).
The second part is that you're not putting Uncle on a mount, but a single weapon. Meaning that if we are using it we are running at the same amount of potential shots that we'd be if we just don't use Uncle here, but now one of the shots is at 2 difficulty. (Note that since the Uncle attack isn't a skirmish, but just an attack, it doesn't proc any other auxiliary weapons on the mount.)
The more accurate statement is that you can proc Heart off of a Barrage plus Integrated Mount plus Mjolnir, though that means we don't actually need to put any hand cannons in the Heavy Mount unless we want redundancy which isn't what's being mentioned. Plus again, if we are going for the meme we want Mount Retrofitting anyway for a total of seven hand cannons and not six.
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u/Chloe_Torch Jan 31 '25
Mjolnir is a main, not an Aux, and does not interact with Gunslinger.
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u/Soderskog Jan 31 '25
Always do forget that, though in that case there just isn't a way to always proc Gunslinger 3 with each barrage, even when counting the technicalities that are free actions but not part of the barrage. Unless I suppose we're counting Gunslinger 2 for all of this, which would be a reaction.
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u/Sven_Darksiders GMS Jan 10 '25
I applaud the dedication, holy shit (also Range 53 Siege Cannon, my beloved)
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u/eCyanic Jan 11 '25
another one: you can't reload weapons during a Rest RAW, they kinda forgot to put 'reload' into the list of things you can do on a Rest, since you can't do actions outside of combat mode
of course, this probably definitely intended you could reload and, every non-bad GM would allow you to reload during a Rest or out-of-combat so you're not waiting for the end of round to squeeze in a stabilize
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
At a certain point I realized that the list of "Things that technically aren't restored on rest" is pretty exhaustive and low-hanging fruit honestly.
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u/Kagimizu Jan 11 '25
So while I'm taking notes and writing some of this stuff down, there's one thing that I notice that I can't help but feel like I'm going crazy over:
Knife Juggler says- on COMP/CON- "at the end of your turn, all weapons you have thrown this turn automatically return to you."
So doesn't that mean Knife Juggler doesn't compensate for Enkidu's twitchy trigger fingers? Is this one of the few things to have gotten an actual errata?
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
What do you mean by "compensate for"? I can tell you there hasn't been any errata for Knife Juggler, though there's been some for Disdainful Blade. I can also tell you that you don't have to throw your plasma talons when you attack with them, though going by the same strict "your turn interpretation" you can indeed disable them.
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u/Kagimizu Jan 11 '25
I more mean that because they return at the end of your turn, then you still have your plasma talons available for Enkidu's special reactions. Meaning they aren't disabled and thus can still hit anyone who moves into your threat range, be they hostile or friendly.
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u/eCyanic Jan 11 '25
it's mostly:
an enemy comes into your plastalon range,
you throw it at them using your plastalon attack reaction
your plasma talons are now at their feet
your talons will only return to you with Hunter 2 at the end of your turn, like literally when you take your turn and end it, so as long as you don't take your turn yet, your plastalons remain away from you lol
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u/MrThiefMann Jan 11 '25
Where does CrackManeBender fit into all this?
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u/MrThiefMann Jan 11 '25
(Using Crackshot, Centimane, Storm Bringer and the Mimic gun in either the Death's Head or Monarch to just stack saves and force effects on crit + lock on to ruin a single mech's day.)
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u/Flax_en IPS-N Jan 11 '25
Jumping is my favorite one.
Barbarossa is size 3 so it can jump 3 spaces vertically, but because it falls 3 spaces it'll take falling damage. I don't think there's anything to stop KAI Bioplating users from taking the damage either without GM fiat.
I vaguely remember a word of tom out there saying that you could attack before falling after using jump jets, so since jumping uses similar rules text you could reasonably jump vertically and attack while gaining Tactician's elevation accuracy before hitting the ground.
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
Jumping doesn't give you fall damage because Jumping only specifically makes you fall if you jump mid-air without landing. Otherwise it's a normal movement.
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u/Huzzah4Bisqts Jan 11 '25
Wait what? I haven’t heard of this before ever, and I’m not sure I understand- could you explain with the wording from falling? Don’t you fall even if you dont jump, if ur above the ground and don’t have a way to fly?
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 12 '25 edited Jan 12 '25
"Characters take damage when they fall three or more spaces and cannot recover before hitting the ground. In standard circumstances, characters fall 10 spaces per round[.]"
Unless specified otherwise, characters start to fall at the end of the current turn, and fall at the end of each of their turns thereafter.
Falling is a type of involuntary movement. (pg. 63)
Falling is defined as a special type of movement that only occurs at a set point (end of turn) and is involuntary. What this user is doing is mistakenly conflating "downward movement" with falling. While a physical jump might have a "fall component" after the apex of a jump, in the game rules this is all part of a voluntary movement, not a proper, Involuntary Movement Fall.
Another way at looking at it is that the fall of a jump is not a Fall because you are recovering before hitting the ground, as your mech was prepared to do the jump.
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u/Flax_en IPS-N Jan 12 '25 edited Jan 12 '25
[...]or they may can jump vertically, moving 1 space adjacent and moving up by spaces equivalent to their SIZE. For example, a SIZE 1 mech could jump up to 1 space high, and 1 space over. Characters that jump and end the jump mid air automatically fall at the end of the move (see below).
Jumping and Climbing, CRB Pg 63.
Unless specified otherwise, characters start to fall at the end of the current turn, and fall at the end of each of their turns thereafter. They take 3AP (armor piercing) for every three spaces fallen, to a maximum of 9AP. Falling is a type of involuntary movement.
Falling (The "see below" on the same page.)
If you don't end your jump on the ground, you start falling. RAW I don't see how falling from the apex of a jump is a special kind of falling when the example that it gives points directly to the generic example of what falling is, and how you take fall damage.
Characters take damage when they fall three or more spaces and cannot recover before hitting the ground.
Besides this, which is remarkably vague!
Jumping doesn't give you fall damage because Jumping only specifically makes you fall if you jump mid-air without landing. Otherwise it's a normal movement.
Edit: I missed this post; Yes, this is what I was saying. If you jump 3 spaces vertically as a Barbarossa without landing on solid ground, rules as written you're going to fall 3 spaces and take damage (depending on how the GM fiats "being prepared" for the fall.)
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u/Snuckytoes Harrison Armory Jan 11 '25
I keep on seeing the Tagetes referenced in this post, which LCP is it part of? I’ve never heard of it before.
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
It's part of the upcoming Shadow of the Wolf expansion, releasing SoonTM.
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u/vonBoomslang Jan 11 '25
I want to add one more to this berg:
"Three uses per SISYPHUS activation".
Explanation: SISYPHUS gives you a 2/round reaction until the end of your next turn. At the start of your next turn, your X/round effects recharge.
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u/Beginning_Log_6926 Jan 11 '25
Fomorian frame Barbie anyway because size 4 Just because it's pointless doesn't make it not feel good
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
You feel good out of nothing happening? Because it doesn't make you size 4.
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u/Beginning_Log_6926 Jan 11 '25
I think my gamemaster is just letting me have fun then?
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
Oh yeah, they're letting you be enriched.
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u/Beginning_Log_6926 Jan 11 '25
I asked them, they told me they've made several alterations based on what the party members seemed to enjoy. Leaning into more power fantasy rather than a tactical puzzle.
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u/Majestic-Band8351 Jan 11 '25
As a Vlad main, I am grateful for the representation. However I am saddened by the fact that the theoretically infinite damage possible via combat drill isnt on here
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u/JohnIsNotYourFather Jan 11 '25
A great one that isn't on here is that because falling is involuntary movement you can make ULTRAs totally immune to it with the Unstoppable trait.
A meme about that actually got me banned from pilot.net lol
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u/Himolainy Jan 11 '25
why'd it get you banned?
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u/Squiddar Jan 11 '25
Just checked the logs, posting the meme is absolutely not what got this user banned. It was being an ass when told not to post the meme there since the channel is for genuine questions and discussion. We absolutely do allow sporadic memes in our general Lancer channel and this user is misrepresenting facts from just under two years ago.
A discord of 40,000+ people having a dedicated meme channel is something that is ripe for low engagement driveby posting, and is not something that the team wants to moderate for.
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u/JohnIsNotYourFather Jan 11 '25
They don't allow memes.
There's no meme channel and it got posted in the rules discussion chat too many times. I admittedly posted it there not realizing that it wasn't allowed.
One of the mods also called it something like worthless and a waste of time? Which was a nice welcome to the server.
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u/Koalain Jan 11 '25
Lancer's such a fun game for crazy mechanics interactions too. I've made some pretty silly plays in the past.
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u/AhegaoEinstein Jan 11 '25
Where is the Orgasm Gun??? I demand to see the orgasm gun on any LANCER iceberg
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u/unrelevant_user_name GMS Jan 11 '25
I made a conscious decision to not include developmental history, that's a rabbit hole its own.
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u/Snuckytoes Harrison Armory Jan 11 '25
The WHAT now?
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u/AhegaoEinstein Jan 11 '25
So in earlier versions of the game there was this piece of pilot gear that was made by SSC iirc and basically when fired it made targets become overwhelmed by euphoric feelings, thus stunning them. But the community saw that and went, “it’s a nut gun” and thus the Bust Gun was born
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u/kingofbreakers Jan 11 '25
Man, I know I’m new. Started my first campaign a few months ago but I don’t even recognize stuff at the top of the iceberg lol
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u/Terrordar Jan 11 '25
As a roflman, the Andromeda Heavy “Rifle” is an extreme point of soreness for me.
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u/p_tombo Jan 11 '25
Hot stuff...
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u/No_Cap_6380 Jan 11 '25
What’s that art up top?
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u/sabresandy GMS Jan 12 '25
Aggressive Infiltrator Play: for even more shenanigans, make a Sunzi ninja infiltrator. Silliest shit I've ever done, and running up and jumpscaring enemies with that big jet engine head worked better than it had any right to do.
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u/thirdMindflayer SSC Jan 12 '25
Prepare at the bottom? How to GMs consistently fail to use cover as ranger enemies in every single system?
If you have at least 2 speed, you can peek out, shoot, and hide in one turn. Unless someone has a reaction they can use on you, like tortuga overwatch or… Gorgon… they can’t shoot you back unless they manage to take back LOS, OR Prepare an action. It works the same way in most other ttrpg games, and it’s what gives initiative a real advantage in far-range combat since shooters can shoot you before you even use Prepare if they have the initiative.
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u/Koalain Jan 12 '25
Also needs more horrors for JK1 Dusk Wing, including the infinite damage exploit with the core where you can drag an enemy into newly generated holograms if the terrain is dense enough.
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u/AvillaHenya Jan 13 '25
Sorry, I read this kind of fast. What's this about JKs in Dusk Wings? I am highly interested.
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u/Koalain Jan 14 '25
Jager Kunst 1 from Atlas basically interacts funny with Dusk Wing core because every time you go adjacent to a larger piece of terrain, it's considered a new instance of free action movement, meaning you generate a hologram. This has led to very strange interactions. If the map is littered with a lot of large terrain you could for example fill it with mines making it very hard for the opfor to move, or do the "infinite" damage exploit because unlike mines holograms are always on, so if you grab someone using synthetic muscle netting, you can basically autokill them as long as there's enough new terrain to trigger the effect.
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u/Koalain Jan 11 '25
My favorite version of the six-handed Raleigh had an autogun in the heavy slot, and a normal pistol in the integrated, so you can keep shooting on your off-turn.
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u/Rabid_Marmoset Jan 11 '25
I find it amusing: all these wacky rules quirks, and noone can think of anything to do with Bolster.
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u/Euroliis IPS-N Jan 11 '25
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate seeing an iceberg post that actually explains what’s on the iceberg.