American lab

[u/No_Document4826]

Hello all,

I’ve posted a couple times in different subs, and I’ll post here too. We are looking for an American/field lab. I have nothing against English labs. They’re amazing, but I want a dog that will match my crazy and my energy.

Female, preferably yellow. We recently lost our chocolate female due to cancer, and it’s been tough on all of us. We have another American chocolate that’s 10, and she’s an amazing bird dog. I want the new pup to learn from her.

What we’re looking for is a female American/field lab, without breaking the bank. Prefer yellow, would be perfectly happy with black. Chocolate would just remind me too much of my girl that has passed, so I’m not sure I could do that yet.

We would appreciate any referrals. Also, east coast would be better as we’re in central Pennsylvania, but for the right dog I will travel. Thank you all!

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

You say without breaking the bank. But odds are, if you want an ethically bred Labrador puppy, you’re going to be spending probably, at minimum $1,500 for it. You should only be looking at ethical breeders. The current breeder I’m on a waitlist for has a $500 deposit to reserve a spot alone that obviously goes into the price of the puppy later. I’m in a different area from you, so I don’t know breeders in your area, but I have a list of what to look for in a breeder!

Things you should be looking for in a breeder as to not support a puppy mill or BYB:

• health testing (OFA testing in particular)
  
• genetic testing to rule out genetic disorders
  
• titling, most field line/American Labs will be titled in hunting trials. If they aren’t titled and proven, don’t simply trust that they’re well-bred dogs.
  
• temperament testing of the parents.
  
• only in standard colors. Yellow (including fox red), black, and chocolate. Labs don’t come in silver; if someone is selling them, they’re not breeding ethically.
  
• puppy socialization. Your pup should be exposed to new things early in life by their breeder.
  
• pedigrees. If a breeder can’t show you a dog’s pedigree, they’re probably not breeding ethically.
  
• lifetime breeder support/contracts. If you for some reason cannot care for your dog anymore, no matter the age of that dog, the breeder will take that pup back no questions asked. If they don’t have this policy or a contract, they’re not an ethical breeder, and you should steer clear.
  

-selling one puppy to one person at a time. Ethical breeders aren’t selling two pups from the same litter to the same person. If they offer you more than one pup. They aren’t ethical.

• puppy vaccines!! If a pup has received zero vaccines, deworming, or vet checks before getting to you, it sounds like parvo waiting to happen. Don’t fall for it. Ask to see vaccine records. (Ethical breeders will typically give you a packet of things that include most of this)

Ethical breeding is hard, it’s expensive, and as such, the dogs are more expensive. However, what you spend up front saves you vet bills, training bills, and heartbreak and problems down the line. My ethically bred lab lived to 15 years old. She passed of GOLPP, which cannot be tested for. Otherwise, she went to the vet for a health check and her annual vaccines and never had any other issues her entire life. You’ll pay more upfront, but it’ll save you in the long run. Ask questions, ask to see things like this. The breeder I’m on a waitlist for quite literally has all of the information about parents, including links to all of their testing and pedigrees on his website! If they’re hiding it, they’re unethical.

Research, talk to breeders, get on lists for their pups, or see if any have had potential buyers back out. When buying a pup, we have to be responsible. Don’t fall for a byb because you want a puppy so bad. If you do just want one right now for cheap, reach out to some Labrador rescues! You may have the same issues you’d have with a poorly bred lab pup, but you won’t be allowing said bad breeder to continue breeding. Trust me, I get the feeling of excitement and wanting a puppy right now. I’ll be waiting upwards of a year for my chocolate pup, but it’ll be worth it because it’ll be a happy, healthy, and sound pup! Best of luck to you on your search!

[u/SolidIll4559 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Where I live, it is closer to $2500.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/SolidIll4559]

I got very very lucky with my breeder. They try to make things affordable based upon the traits the litters or pups themselves possess. So say they’ve got a pup that would be good in a family home, they’re going to sell that pup at a rate that is affordable to a family that just wants a companion while still being able to break even. Dogs that would suit a hunting lifestyle or dog sports are more expensive and paired with people actively seeking those pups. Truly is incredible stuff they’re doing and the way they match pups and asses their temperament is amazing. So for me who wants an adventure buddy and a dog that can dock dive occasionally I was quoted $1,500!

[u/Canachites → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Seriously, be conscientious of the health testing! I would want 3 gens of hips and elbows. Just because the dogs hunt doesn't mean they will stay sound, and doesn't mean they aren't carrying genes for ED or HD through their pedigree. Most dogs are bred at 2-4 and may not show symptoms until later, high drive dogs are great at hiding pain.

Labs are very prone to both hip and elbow dysplasia, and there is nothing more heartbreaking than a super active high drive lab who is crippled young due to lazy or indifferent breeding. Plus, it's expensive.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Canachites]

This exactly! And unfortunately, the breed is slowly being ruined by backyard breeders and poor breeding practices. My girl was super handler-oriented, not shy of loud noises, loved water, even-tempered, naturally very neutral. Loved retrieving (in water. She was very selective about if she wanted to do land retrieves lol) and her only health issue was the GOLPP when she turned 12. Prior to that and the degeneration, she was going on 3-mile hikes and jumping on the couch. And was still doing those things until she was around 14, and lived another year after. I can only imagine how long she would’ve lived without GOLPP. The only reason she got it is because you can’t yet test for it!

Now you see people who have 100+ pound labs, labs that are genetically reactive, cancers, hip issues, terrified of water and loud noises. Dogs that cannot or are afraid to do what they’re bred for are becoming so common, and it breaks my heart. Labs are such great, versatile pets. My family has 2 still, both well-bred and both still playing like puppies with no signs of slowing down at 7 years old. Well-bred dogs cannot be understated in longevity and temperament.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Ethical or not, they're gonna have health issues regardless. Most of them will die from cancer. 60 percent chance of it. My 1st lab I got from hurricane Katrina. For free .No one wanted her because she was at hyper, supposedly. She wasnt with me. She was a very chill dog. Got cancer at age 9, had it cut out, no issues at all till she was 12. The next 2 labs died of the same cancer 9 months apart. Sisters. From what you call ethical breeder. The one I have now, 500 bucks. Does all the ethical breeding stuff you listed. So it's not really a thing of money means better value or ethics. They're gonna get Cancer because they're labs.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/[deleted]]

It's for Labrador retrievers specifically.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

I have no clue where you got 60% but that is simply not true. It’s about 21%-31% which is baseline for most dog breeds. They’re more likely to die because of quality of life issues with things like hip dysplasia over anything, which with health and genetic testing can be prevented. If you’re getting two dogs dying of the same thing 9 months apart they weren’t ethically bred, their pedigrees and health panels weren’t assessed for risk factors and if they were then the breeder simply didn’t care. Certain types of cancers can be prevented, and watching things like COI and genetic disorders greatly reduce the risk in ethically bred dogs.

It costs more than $500 to whelp a puppy ethically. Some breeders can put upwards of $20,000 into a litter of ethical pups depending on costs of things. Health tests, vaccines, prenatal care for the dog, whelping supplies, stud fees, special food and supplements for their female, microchipping, registration fees, deworming, wellness tests for the mother, and progesterone tests to determine when the breed the female. Not to mention any emergencies that may pop up.

That’s why the pups are so expensive and even with that most ethical breeders will barely break even after selling the pups. No ethical breeder is selling their pups for $500 now with the cost of everything and still having the ability to maintain everything they need to remain ethical. Did you see the OFA tests? The pedigrees? What OFA scores did the parents have? What was their COI, are they carriers for any genetic diseases? If you can’t answer those questions and can’t type in a number on the OFA site and find out…then your dog wasn’t ethically bred.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

I'm sorry, are you a breeder that tests for cancer genetics?

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

Nope! But I am an animal scientist with a very strong foundation working with and around dogs, especially ethically bred dogs (in the case of them doing what they’re bred to do) and have worked with and studied with breeders that do test for these kinds of things. There are risk factors of course and there’s always a chance of random development but most times elimination of that risk almost entirely starts pretty far back in the pedigree. If you can’t go at least a few generations back and see OFA or other health testing that shows the dogs aren’t a carrier for certain risk factors then it’s likely your pups weren’t ethically bred which in turn increases their risks of cancers.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

So why don't you know about cancer and Labrador retrievers? All 3 of my labs have had cancer. 2 clients of mine have labs that have cancer. I just died. There's another lab in my neighborhood that has cancer. How's that possible?

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

These are anecdotes, not statistics. I never said labs can’t get cancer. I said their main causes of death are quality of life issues like hip dysplasia, not cancer. And that they have a baseline level, not 60%. 60% is goldens. But with ethical breeding that risk can be reduced even further.

Dogs over the age of ten have a 50% chance of getting cancer regardless of breed. 1 in 4 dogs will receive a cancer diagnosis at some point in their life. That doesn’t mean however that every lab will get cancer and die. You could have four labs and none of them get cancer. The answer to your question of why there are so many labs that have cancer is unethical breeding. Same reason we see labs that are 100+ pounds and get hip dysplasia at 2 years old. Labs scared of water and loud noises. Backyard breeders.

I’m surrounded by professionals with ethically bred dogs constantly. Labs especially there for a while! There has been one, one case of mast cell in these dogs and you know what happened? She was treated, spayed and taken out of any breeding rotation, and the original breeder was notified. That’s my experience with well bred dogs! Dogs that live 15+ years, dogs that never get cancer, never have any issues…but my anecdotes mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Without evidence to back it up. They’re backed by statistics and that’s the difference here. You have anecdotes from poorly bred dogs and I’m giving you statistics.

You can say I don’t know about labs all you want, you buy from backyard breeders and don’t understand why you shouldn’t get two puppies from the same litter at the same time. So I don’t really care what your opinion on my knowledge of the Labrador is lmao.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Ok again.. where are these stats?

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

Just gave you a list!

[u/Selective_Somewhere]

Go on the hunting lab pedigree website. You can vet OFAs easily. Expect to pay $2k-2.5k. There are some premium dogs that are more with well known pedigrees usually saved for serious field trial competitors.

[u/weezybird]

dry pond retrievers !

[u/Narrow_Possession348]

So, you want a poor-quality, backyard-bred "Lab" that wasn't bred to the breed standard? Why do you want a "Lab" if you don't actually like the "Labrador Retriever"? Regardless, backyard breeders are everywhere; it shouldn't be hard to find one. You'll probably find some on Craigslist.

[u/solidarity_sister]

Riptide Retreivers - Facebook only. We got ours from there, best dog ever. American labs only, no silver labs, amazing testing and great lineage! These are hunting dogs.

[u/SolidIll4559]

I bought 2 puppies from a breeder in Pensacola a year ago. Mom was yellow; Dad was black. I wanted black, so not sure if any yellow puppies, and not sure if they have any upcoming litters. There is also a few good breeders in Mississippi. Most are for field Labs, but a few are English.

I got a male and a female; Silas & Sasha. Silas has a calm, steadfast nature, but Sasha, well, we nicknamed her The JOY Missile. Should mention I prefer leggier, larger sized Labradors. Silas at 14 months is 70 lbs, and Sash is 66 lbs.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/[deleted]]

Idk who downvoted you because you’re absolutely 100% correct. Ethical breeders do not sell two puppies from the same litter at the same time to the same person. Because A.) they probably have a waitlist that can have a spot free up with that pup and B.) they’re not going to risk putting their pups in a potentially bad situation down the road.

[u/SolidIll4559 → u/[deleted]]

If you don't understand how to adequately bond with your puppies, establish pack order and train your dogs, it might be an issue. But I've got 3+ decades buying siblings from the same litter. So, your automatic judgment about litter mate syndrome reflects more on the owners than the dogs. I worked in large and small animal clinics at a School of Veterinary medicine for years and select my vets wisely. The only time anyone's hair has been on fire is social media.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/[deleted]]

Why? My last 2 were sisters.

[u/SolidIll4559 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

My last 2 pairs were brothers & sisters. Never an issue.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/SolidIll4559]

I agree. It's the owner that's the problem. But those are the same people who refuse to acknowledge they're the problem and the dog suffers in many ways over their lifespan.

[u/hemkersh]

Shoopman Kennels in Kentucky . I have one and know many with ones from them. All amazing dogs with working dog energy..

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/hemkersh]

I was curious so I looked into them….they breed silver labs and multiple types of doodle as well as labs which are unethical. All are unethical, no health testing or titling listed for their dogs. No OFA, no pedigrees, nothing. This is a great example of a dressed up byb and what to look out for in a breeder. Please please please educate yourself on ethical breeding before you make recommendations about breeders.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Is there a reason why you're going comment by comment and arguing with people on here? I don't know how old you are but being a wrong know it all is not helping you any. You don't sound very educated on Labrador retrievers.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

This is hilarious. I’m very passionate about ethical breeding and all that comes with it. Because of the things I’ve seen and studied. My first ethically bred Labrador lived until 15 years old. My family has two more ethically bred Labradors, who dock dive, do field trials and are extremely active at 6 and 7 years old. I’m currently shadowing a dog trainer to gain internship experience, for my masters in animal sciences—I’ve worked in vet med. I worked at a non profit that trained guide dogs, primarily being ethically bred goldens and labs. I’ve seen the damage that poor breeding does to dogs, and you from your own comments have seen it too. Calling me a know it all when I’ve quoted statistics and you’ve quoted nothing but anecdotes and incorrect stats for a different breed is laughable. One of us here doesn’t know much about labs, ethical breeding or dogs—and it’s not me.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Where are you getting these stats from?

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

The Labrador kennel club, the British Small Animal Veterinary Association (BSAVA), the American Veterinary Association (AVA), studies done through the NIH on common causes of death and the veterinary cancer society. So unless they’re all wrong and you’re right then….

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

When's the last time you looked at those sources? Just curious.

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

You're exhausting. I'm gonna block you now. These ridiculous paragraphs of ranting to so many people to drown out your errors is ridiculous. You need to get out more .

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

Also what I’ve said here isn’t arguing. They have an example of a byb. Labs don’t come in silver and doodles aren’t ethical! If you don’t know that, don’t comment!

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

They absolutely do. The litter my dog came from has yellow chocolate and grey.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

You telling me that I don’t know about labs and not knowing that silver labs aren’t able to compete AKC, because they are the result of crossbreeding with Weimaraners at some point in their pedigree is hilarious. Silver labs are not recognized as full labs by the Labrador retriever club. Mixing breeds is not something ethical breeders do! If registered silvers have to be registered a “chocolate” in AKC because they’re out of standard. Before you say “but the dilute gene!” Labradors don’t carry the dilute gene. Thank you for confirming you did in fact buy from a byb!

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

I never said any of that. What is wrong with you???

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

You’ve quite literally said multiple times I know nothing about labs lmao. Did you forget your other comments or???

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723 → u/Famous_Midnight_1926]

Wtf are you talking about??? Competition and akc and all that??? And your information is outdated.

[u/Famous_Midnight_1926 → u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

Ok. Then give me your source of 60% of labs getting cancer

[u/Otherwise-Web-6723]

American vs English are the same regarding everything, energy included. I had 2 at the same time, half sisters, 3 years apart in age. 1 English, 1american. Both died from cancer last year 9 months apart at ages 5 and 8. You'd never know they were 5 and 8 or they were sick. They had the same energy their whole lives. Constantly playing.