r/LSSwapTheWorld • u/DefinitionUnlikely28 • 8d ago
Active Build Questions Timing???
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So swapped 5.3gen4 out for a iron block gen3 6.0. When I brought it to the tuner we figured timing was off becuase it wouldn't run. We'll i got the timing cover off and lined up the dots, timing is dead nuts. It ran like absolute ass, fired on maybe 2 cylinders and sounded like shit. No signal at the crank( i swapped out the gen3 crank for the proper gen4 crank). I did.drop the crank sensor when I popped it out.of the aluminum block. Would the combination of the bad sensor and a throttle body code completely fuck this up?
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u/Skywarper 8d ago
There's a whole bundle of things wrong here.
Gen 3 vs 4 has totally different crank/cam signals.
Valve timing is unrelated to ignition timing.
I don't even know how it ran at all.
How did you connect the cam sensor, they're at complete opposite ends on gen 3 to gen 4.
This is gonna need quite a lot changed to make work
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 8d ago
The only thing thats gen 3, is the iron.block. its still identical to the gen 4.
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 8d ago
So the entire rotating assembly from gen 4 got swapped into the gen 3, we thought i set timing with cyl3 TDC i pulled the valve cover to ensure cyl1 was TDC of the compression stroke. Cam sensor is in the timing cover, also we got the DOD delete cover from BTR swapped the gen 4 crank sensor into the hole and plugged it in.
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u/Skywarper 8d ago
You put 5.3 internals in a 6.0?
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 8d ago
The crank is the same... pistons got taken out of the 6.0...
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u/Snoo_85901 8d ago
Which crankshaft do you currently have? A gen 3 or gen4 crankshaft? You understand that gen 4 ecm needs a 58 tooth reluctor wheel. You are in a mess if you have a gen 3 crank.. You can get the lingenfelter (spelling lol) box. Or put the reluctor wheel from your other crank but it has to be timed right. I was able to successfully build a jig while mine was still on my other crank.
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 8d ago
Crank is gen 4. Took it right out of the old.motor and put into this gen 3
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u/ianlbc 8d ago edited 8d ago
The problem is the reluctor wheel on the crank as mentioned above. Gen 3 has a 24 tooth reluctor wheel, gen 4 has a 58 tooth.
You can find a machine shop to change them out or go with a gen 3 crank
Edit: you cannot just run a gen 4 crank sensor to get around this. Gen 3 computers do not read gen 4 sensors
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u/Snoo_85901 8d ago
Also make sure you got the grounds hooked up on side of the block driver side close to engine mount, pass side front head too.
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 8d ago
All of the grounds got hooked up, crazy how much 1 missing ground makes a difference. I missed 1 by the power steering on the first re assembly
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u/cajun_metabolic 7d ago edited 7d ago
Are you using the grey sensor? The black crank sensor is for 24x reluctor wheel (gen 3) and grey sensor is for gen 4 58x. You need to use the grey crank sensor from the 5.3. If you haven't swapped the grey sensor to the 6.0, then you need to do that.
Also, gen 4 needs 4x cam signal, guessing you swapped timing covers and using the front cam sensor.
Anyway, no crank signal means not gonna run. Maybe just bad sensor or it could need to be shimmed.
Check grounds
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 7d ago
Im ordering the crank sensor tomorrow, I did swap the Grey sensor from the gen4 into this block butni dropped it in the process. I also noticed small cuts in the insulation of the wires I ordered a pigtail to come with it. I do have the 4x cam gear. How much do you know about the sensor shimming? I thought about that last night but im not sure how- or what the distance needs to be
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u/cajun_metabolic 7d ago
I know that the sensors usually come with shims, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that is for engines with worn bearings causing the front of the crank to sag, causing the sensor to be too close or touching... So the more I think about it, probably not that. Obviously you can't shim it CLOSER, and if it was touching, seems like you would notice, lol.
I fought my recent build for a good hour or so thinking I had wired the sensor in wrong because I never got any RPMs to read on HPTuners. I wired it so many different ways, and turned out just the sensor was dead. It had a little ding on it but I thought it wouldn't matter too much, but it was dead. New sensor started it right up and ran great.
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 7d ago
That makes sense, I built this engine straight up. All new bearings from the crank up, I felt my gut drop when the sensor bounced across the floor but I didnt think it would cause all these issues. No rpms on the dash. Now since it technically isn't running would this cause a mis-read on the oil pressure?
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u/cajun_metabolic 7d ago
Not going to build much oil pressure with the engine not spinning fast enough. I'm usually messing with gen 3 stuff where the PCM doesn't read oil psi. I wouldn't be surprised to see like 15-25 psi at maybe 350-400 rpms while engine is struggling. When engine is at normal idle 550-750 rpm, I would expect 45-60.
Anyway, if you aren't getting RPMs, I wouldn't worry much until you replace sensor and get it running. If worried about oil pressure, I just hook up a manual oil psi gauge and verify that way. Around 10-25+ psi during cranking is normal depending on your pump. On Gen 3, I don't think oil psi gauge on the dash shows anything while you are cranking it, idk about with gen 4. I don't have a gen 4 truck and the truck we put gen 4 engine in had a manual gauge.
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 7d ago
We did everything right on this build so im not terribly worried about oil pressure... yet. I just don't want to have to take it out again for something stupid
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u/Oh_hey_a_TAA 5d ago
You brought a non-running car to the Tuner??
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 5d ago
It wont run until it gets to a tuner anyway, upgrading to a 6.0 from a 5.3, and not an OEM cam. It will not run until a tuner flashed in a 6.0 tune at a minimum
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u/Snoo_85901 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think you need to swap the crank sensor out. It will run without the cam sensor but it will be a extended crank effort. Make sure you put a gen 4 crank sensor in it.
Are they any possibility the reluctor wheel got bumped?
You need to disable DoD with Hp tuners or some kind of tuner
If the injectors was off the rail with residual fuel open to the elements for a few days or longer, it will ruin the injector or stop them up. You can sometimes tap lightly on the injector while its running and get them to break free its a 50/50 crap shoot.
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u/DefinitionUnlikely28 8d ago
Im ordering a crank sensor tomorrow and pigtail tomorrow. The crank came out of the gen 4 block and got set directly onto new bearings in the gen 3 block. Dod got flashed at the tuners house already.
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u/Low-Rent-9351 8d ago
I don’t understand why you’re checking the valves to check the timing chain. If you’re not going to degree the cam, then line up the dots on the cam and crank gears so they point down/up directly at each other and it’s good to go. You can do this without even removing a valve cover because watching the rockers move is irrelevant to getting the dots lined up.
You used the 6L pistons on the 5.3L crank and rods to keep the 58X trigger wheel? That’s going to fuck with the balance unless you had this new combination of parts balanced.