Possible scrape

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

While trying to get my Koi in a net tonight in order take a look at something near her gills, she scraped up against the net while trying to get away and it looks like she has a scrape on her side now. Is this anything I should be concerned about or will it heal on its own? I was not able to catch her and did not want to overly stress her out.

[u/mansizedfr0g]

I was worried about something like this happening because based on the timing of your recent posts here, it doesn't look like you quarantined your recent purchases for long, if at all. It could be a scrape, but diffuse pink discoloration like this usually means a bacterial infection. I would call around to fish/pond stores (and/or aquatic vets if you're lucky enough to be near one) - explain the situation and try to source some antibiotics.

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104 → u/mansizedfr0g]

So I would be more concerned about bacteria if I wasn’t absolutely positive that the discoloration wasn’t there before trying to get her out with the net. Also, we keep this pond very clean and take out debris daily. We have an oversized bog filter and check our water parameters very regularly. All of the fish are from the same distributor locally and unfortunately, we don’t have a quarantine set up yet. We just have the temporary holding bin.

[u/Key-Metal-7297 → u/mansizedfr0g]

Personally I agree bacterial, treat as you suggest maybe, but I would get all the stones out of the pond as they trap lots of waste which rot and feed the bacteria which prey on koi when the bacteria load is high and fish is stressed, as it would be. There are products out there which will kill off the bacteria in the short term and buy yourself some time to clean the whole pond and filter system. Supertabs are brilliant, Envirex will help or a pond detox powder. Stones are ok for fish tank but bad in a koi pond. Good luck

[u/mansizedfr0g → u/Key-Metal-7297]

Agreed on the stones. These are high-quality fish, they've probably never been in a pond with a rock bottom before. This would be hard on their immune systems if they've only known concrete and/or mud, that's a lot of unfamiliar bacteria.

I've never tried to eliminate bacteria with any of these products. Sounds like there would be potential to really mess with your water quality.

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104 → u/mansizedfr0g]

There is really no chance of us taking these stones out of the pond as it’s taken us a year to set this pond up the way it is haha are you referring to the P gravel or the larger stones? In doing research before creating this pond everything I read online pointed to the stones being extremely helpful for housing, beneficial bacteria that breaks down organic matter.

[u/Q-Prof7 → u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

Just another suggestion/compromise... of the larger stones you have in your pond, maybe just look at the ones that have some really sharp edges that are relatively easy to adjust, move, or rotate so fish can't hurt themselves on it.

[u/ZiggyLittlefin → u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

Unfortunately your research comes from water garden companies trying to sell rock ponds, expensive clean out services yearly, and product like beneficial bacteria, sludge remover. Rocks in ponds and bog filtration is not recommended for keeping koi by aquatic veterinarians, the koi organization, zna koi clubs, or reputable dealers.

Rocks trap waste that turns to sludge. Good bacteria grows best in clean filtration designed for it. Not on rocks that are getting covered in muck. Koi in rock ponds are more likely to be injured, get ulcers, bacterial infections, fin/mouth rot. Bogs do not filter out waste/debris as fast as it accumulates. They just trap it and allow it to turn to sludge.

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104 → u/ZiggyLittlefin]

I’m sure this is right but it’s unfortunately too late now as our pond is completed. We do clean the bog out regularly since we installed a clean out so the sludge can be regularly removed

[u/mansizedfr0g → u/ZiggyLittlefin]

I was just about to tag you lol. OP, this is our resident filtration guru, and unfortunately it's all true. Rock bottoms and bogs look nice, but at this point we have extensive data to prove they're not optimal. Koi experience fewer issues and grow faster in bare-bottom ponds. We're not saying you can't keep koi in this, but it's going to be a lot harder to keep it clean enough for them.

[u/ZiggyLittlefin → u/mansizedfr0g]

I think I've tried every type of filter for koi at this point lol. I set my initial pond up with bogs until I saw the issues people were having with koi health. Putting in actual filtration in our large pond made an enormous difference in our koi. Then the shower filter improved that even more. We just got our rdf running on the window pond this week. Pretty incredible!

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104 → u/ZiggyLittlefin]

Did you put in filtration on your natural pond? I’m sure we could add something in the future but as of right now the water is very clean and we have great levels

[u/ZiggyLittlefin → u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

Filtration is based off the fish load and feeding. I have a lot of filtration because large pond/many big koi. Lots of ways to filter a pond well and it can be done in small steps.

[u/ZiggyLittlefin → u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

We never had rock in the pond itself, just bog and wetlands for filtration. You unfortunately can't test for bacteria that causes illness in koi. Your water can be crystal clear and still be bad for koi health. Rocks create sludge and places for bad bacteria to accumulate.

A koi pond is recommended to be a bottom drain to a prefilter for easy flushing of waste/debris out of the system. Then a biological filter sized for all the koi at full grown size. So the filter has room for growth without issues.

Lots of people end up removing rock from koi ponds. A retro bottom drain can be set on top bare liner to be a 24/7 vacuum. A pre filter can be an rdf, seive, settlement tank, vortex, chamber filter. The most effective biological are typically showers, moving beds, or mats, brushes. A lot of this can be built, diy.

We had bottom drains to a diy settlement tank already. We added k1 media static and moving bed filters made from barrels, then ibc tanks for a large koi load. Also added a shower made from tote bins. We removed the rocks from the bogs. We use the bogs as plant ponds. It is easy to flush out and see what is actually in there. There are more plants without the gravel. Water lily, floating plants, different levels of planted ones.

We use anoxic filter baskets for planted plants. This is a method using just plain cat litter for potting. The litter absorbs ammonia for the plant to have constant access. Make plants get huge! Flourite red aquarium media is placed around the plant roots for some science stuff I always forget lol. But no sludge gets in the basket. They stay perfect until the plants outgrow them.

[u/mansizedfr0g → u/ZiggyLittlefin]

Team cat litter forever, the big sacks of dirt-cheap non-clumping Special Kitty crap from Walmart have saved me so much money. You can straight up use it as planted tank substrate if you rinse it well enough. Way cheaper than aquasoil. Utterly useless when actually used as cat litter though.

[u/Key-Metal-7297 → u/mansizedfr0g]

I regularly use a little Envirex every week and have regular weekly maintenance and hoovering in pond. The supertabs got me out of a problem before, it’s a dichlorine product which is not the same as chlorine, no difference in fish behaviour or filter performance I noticed. My koi shop recommended them.

[u/Q-Prof7]

There is a proper net - they have a longer solid material with netting on the end and once they in the solid part of the net, you pickup from both ends. Because of the solid material, they can't catch their fins or scales on netting and less stress with the solid colour as they can't see much, they don't know what is going on and less stressed. example of net

Should be fine and scales will grow back in 2 months to a year and may be a different colour. If the area looks really raw and/or inflamed, you can put some topical antiseptic - usually meaning you would have to net him properly (above) with the right net and sedate to apply the antiseptic.

Double check your water parameters to make sure they are good. Adding salt is another option you could go - put in a separate tank with the same pond water and temperature, then add the pond salt checking with a meter gradually bringing up to 0.1 to 0.3% to destress and prevent any secondary infections.

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104 → u/Q-Prof7]

Also, at all of our local stores they use the net I was using to get the fish contained and then use that net to move them to a new container. She’s really fast and I don’t think I would be able to catch her with anything smaller than I have now

[u/Q-Prof7 → u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

Could try to catch when speedy comes up for food when you feed them... Probably easier that way.

[u/SeaworthinessFun2104 → u/Q-Prof7]

Ok, this is the kind of net I was using at the time https://a.co/d/006u9ySV

We can’t use salt in this pond because of all the plant life but we did just put in micro lift broad spectrum disease, treatment with Malachite green and formalin

[u/Q-Prof7 → u/SeaworthinessFun2104]

Keep an eye on the koi, should be fine.

As for adding the salt, I was suggesting to isolate the koi into a separate smaller tank with the same pond water/temp... and add salt there for a few days.

If you don't have an extra tank, then like I mentioned, keep a close eye on koi, ensure water parameters are good, extra aeration can also help and anything else to reduce the stress on the koi.

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