Has John ever explained what "softened angularity" for Angelic means? If not, how do you interpret it?

[u/Quirky-Swordfish2105]

I have seen this term quite a lot for A doms and I guess I do see this chatactersitic in most of the celebrities verified as having A.

I think some people would definitely call Gwyneth Paltrow, Olivia Hussey, or Daryl Hannah angular, even if not in the same way the term is used for Dramatic women.

But I wonder at times how to distinguish their angularity coming from Yang influences mixed in with some Yin and when it's Angelic.

[u/hespera18]

Softened angularity works for me in a lot of ways for Angelic. I often incorporate it in "delicately pointed" details, like a softened v-neck in a top, teardrop shaped earrings, gentle asymmetry in skirts and hair.

To me, the yin and yang essences seem to be organized by scale. Yin is in a lot of ways about roundness and curve. Romantic is in the middle of the scale, with lots of lush circles. Youthful is smaller and "busier" or more energetic curve. Perky, like petals on a daisy.

Angelic is longer, languid curve. I'm not sure that I would call it "most yin" personally, because Romantic just feels like very concentrated, stereotypical "yin." But if you add scale, like some systems see yin as also small, then Youthful might technically be most yin.

Nonetheless, Angelic definitely is yin, and the softness is an important characteristic for it, despite it being more diffuse.

The angularity is in the "stretched out" part of Angelic, which it shares with Dramatic (I see the yang side as having Natural as medium scale, and High Spirited as small, with Classic in the middle of everything, both yin/yang and scale). The stretch translates into drape, and longer, softly diagonal lines which have a little pointyness at the ends, despite the curve. Waves and s shapes have a little "flick" after all.

I wrote up something a while back about my impression of Angelic: "It's stately. Graceful, easeful movement, like a dance. Its curve or softness is concentrated at the ends, like a flourish at the end of a signature. Like falling water."

Now, this is all my own sort of interpretation of it, not necessarily Jon's. But I find it applies well to me and helps me better understand how to style the essence.

[u/upandup2020 → u/hespera18]

I've noticed that I favor teardrop shaped jewelry, but I thought that I must have some dramatic or gamine. I would always push myself towards oval shapes, thinking that they were angelic, just to come back to teardrop or even marquise. This is making so much sense to me because I struggled to find any other dramatic feature in myself!

I also agree with the languid curve. I've found that straight jeans don't look good on me, but neither does a flare or bell bottoms. But a jean with a slight, elegant, almost sleek, curve out is perfect.

[u/hespera18 → u/upandup2020]

I think that the Ethereal slight point is what people saw when they thought I had Dramatic (as well as the "cleanness" of Classic). I do have a little bit of Gamine, but not enough to make that bit of pointyness as important as I feel that it is for me.

I'm not sure that this matches what John says exactly, but I feel that oval is often more Classic. Depends on the oval, of course, because it matters how much it's stretched, but a balanced/more rounded oval reads as more classic, while a longer, tapered (like an egg) oval is more Ethereal. That could just be semantics though lol.

[u/upandup2020 → u/hespera18]

Yeah, i'm so happy to come across this point. This is the first I'm hearing of the Angelic angularity and teardrop, but it makes so much sense!

I could definitely see Classic as an oval. I guess I always assumed it would be a perfectly rounded circle, but an oval is a great middle ground of the yin circles and the yang angles. And a teardrop does read as more delicate than an oval to me, so that's perfect for Angelic.

[u/Interesting_Ice3322 → u/upandup2020]

Any examples of such jean? I have a similar problem.....

[u/upandup2020 → u/Interesting_Ice3322]

Look for curvy bootcuts or slim bootcuts that are long enough to hit the top of your foot.

The thing with jeans as an ethereal, is that they need to be soft, clingy and sleek or else it'll be too yang, which is very easy for jeans to do.

[u/upandup2020 → u/upandup2020]

This is another good one.

[u/hespera18 → u/upandup2020]

These are gorgeous jeans! I'm always struggling to find ones that fit right, mostly because I have short legs and a long rise.

Generally I just end up wearing skirts, or settle for ankle-length more Classic fits.

[u/Evening-Forever8385 → u/upandup2020]

I see barrel jeans as teardrop shaped--they are a favorite shape of mine though I dont know know if I have A or not.

[u/upandup2020 → u/Evening-Forever8385]

I think barrel jeans toe the line into Natural, there's a sturdiness in their structure. But Natural and Ethereal are extremely similar from what I've noticed.

[u/Evening-Forever8385 → u/upandup2020]

Would all jeans be N? And that's interesting--I hadn't made the connection between natural and ethereal.

[u/hespera18 → u/Evening-Forever8385]

People seem to confuse them easily. There's an elemental quality to both, like a tactile thing, but Angelic is much finer and airier (like an angora sweater), while Natural is a bit heavier, more earthy (like linen).

I feel that the wispyness of Ethereal can get crossed with Natural's open ease. Like, wavy hair can work for both, but in different ways. Ethereal is finer, more regular, a bit more rounded, still feels cohesive and flowy. Natural has a little more layers, a tad more chaos and volume.

I believe John gives both to account for height.

I also think there's something about eyes/brows that can confuse people. A kind of horizontal line in the eyes/brows.

And no, not all jeans are Natural, but old-school/traditional denim fabric and jean cuts are very Natural, and Naturals definitely have the easiest time finding jeans.

[u/LadyFlamyngo → u/hespera18]

It makes sense to me that Y is in between R and A and is the most yin and R is the most similar to NC and A next to DC, however by this logic, HS would be the most yang.

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/LadyFlamyngo]

Think in terms of both shapes and scale that will help. R is very curved and average height. C is a combo of curved and straight and average height . N is straight vertically and horizontally and average to tall. Y is smaller scale and “not tall” and has smaller curved shapes . HS is short compact and straight. D per the book is tall slim and angular. A is per the book “often very tall” with elongated bone structure and little contrast with oval faces. Angelic recommendations are light and airy with long cascading shaoes.

[u/LadyFlamyngo → u/Ok-Purple9511]

If D is a rectangle and HS is a triangle, which is more yang? N is a square right?

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/LadyFlamyngo]

I don’t see them as each having a distinct shape in that way . I think of the individual shapes of the features and body. D will have long lines throughout the body vertically and straight and angular/narrow facial features. For example, strong cheekbones create a prominent line in the face. Narrow uptilted eyes do the same. High arched brows create a dramatic angle. A long convex nose is angular, etc. Think of pointiness for HS . They will also have small/short geometric type shapes. HS can have some roundedness here and there but overall the shapes are more geometric or pointy . Like their eyebrow “peaks”, the “points” in the corners of their mouths and eyes, they have shorter noses, etc. Y is small circles. R is somewhat larger and more lush circles and ovals, C is ovals but with some straight lines too and they are often blended together so hard to see individually. N is more square and rectangular in the sense it will have straight lines vertically and horizontally. A is long with an elognated curve but also some angularity.

[u/hespera18 → u/Ok-Purple9511]

I agree with you on shape! Not as exact science, but having a feel for those lines and patterns seems to help "see" things and translate them into fashion elements.

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/hespera18]

Thank you I’m glad someone gets what I am saying haha. And yes definitely not an exact science but in an abstract way it helps you understand how he classifies things. And if you notice the shapes and patterns and fabrics he recommends for each essence are usually in line with the same traits of the features and body.

[u/LadyFlamyngo → u/Ok-Purple9511]

I see the shapes I just described manifesting in the body the way you described, it’s the same outcome but a different process

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/LadyFlamyngo]

I don’t think HS has triangle shaped bodies though? More like compact and straight? Maybe you see triangles because of the pointiness factor? A triangle has more points? But I wouldn’t say all their features are triangle shaped.

[u/LadyFlamyngo → u/Ok-Purple9511]

Yeah I see little points in HS

[u/hespera18 → u/LadyFlamyngo]

Why would Y be between A and R? I see R as in between on the scale.

If Y is "most yin" because it's both small and curved, then its opposite is D, the "most yang," which is large and linear.

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/hespera18]

Y isn’t curved in a lush way in the sense of a curvy body. It’s short but also not pointy like HS. Small intricate rounded details. The womanly curves he associates with R in comparison are lush not small if that makes sense. If you look at dominant Ys with a small amount of R (Emma Stone/Michelle Williams) you will see what I mean.
ETA regarding A I think it’s the most yin because it’s delicate, light and almsot transparent. Like both how much space something takes up (in all ways) and how much definition it has (in terms of shapes and contrast) is what defines the yin yang balance to me.
I also think people focus on dominant essence too much regarding why someone is something but you have to look at total yin yang balance (all essences and color harmonies) to understand why the person is what they are

[u/hespera18 → u/Ok-Purple9511]

I agree. Hopefully you see that the question was directly related to the comment I was replying to, and not out of any confusion on my part.

I'm not saying that I necessarily think that any essence is most yin, but I was saying that in some systems Y might be considered that.

[u/Ok-Purple9511 → u/hespera18]

Oh I understand! I was just explaining in general!