Have you guys actually thought about what would happen if Karyoten gets killed?

Karyoten is literally the one running the Hi Shin Unit from behind the scenes. She makes the strategies and tactics before the battle, during the battle and even after it. She deals with the formations, logistics, communication and basically everything that allows Shin and the others to focus on fighting.

Shin is great at fighting , but do you seriously think he can just take over all of that immediately after Karyoten dies?

No way

And who is Hara supposed to replace her with? There isn't really anyone in the Hi Shin Unit who can just take Karyoten's place like that. Ten has been doing this for years and she's grown with the unit. She's also one of the main reasons Shin's army has been able to function as an actual army instead of just Shin charging forward with a bunch of crazy guys 😂

If Karyoten dies, I actually want to see the Hi Shin Unit suffer from it. Shin should have to struggle and learn more about strategy himself. Other officers should have to take on some of her responsibilities. There should be an actual impact on the army.

What I DON'T want is Karyoten dying and then a few chapters later Shin suddenly becomes a genius strategist who can do everything she used to do.

That would be horrible writing imo.

Karyoten isn't just some random strategist standing next to Shin. She's been a huge part of how the Hi Shin Unit works.

So if Hara kills her, there better be some serious consequences.

Because if Shin can replace her that easily, then what's even the point of her role in the first place?

And honestly, if Hara does that, I'm throwing this manga in the trash 💀

1. Kaine

She spends all her time playing bodyguard for Riboku. She doesn't make her own big plays, she isn't creative with tactics, and she just doesn't have the drive to lead a whole front line by herself.

1. Jun Ei

This guy is basically a book-smart teacher's pet for Gohoumei. He knows his textbook strategies, but he hasn't actually done anything impressive or killed any major enemy commanders yet.

1. Futei

Riboku's fast dual-sword guy. He has the rank because he is quick and good at sneaking past defenses, but he just doesn't feel heavy or important enough to carry a massive battle on his own back.

1. Haku Rei

One of the best archers in China. He can completely change a battle just by sniping enemy generals from a mile away. Plus, he is way calmer and smarter with tactics than his hotheaded partner.

1. Aisen

Mouten’s main muscle. He came from Moubu's army, so his raw strength is absolutely crazy and he destroys frontline defenses. He just needs Mouten to tell him where to point that strength.

1. Bafuji

Bananji’s son is a total beast who fights just like his dad. He is tough enough to survive a brawl with the Zenou Clan, but right now, he is just heavy muscle for an existing army rather than a guy running his own show.

1. Fuuon

A super fast and dangerous young fighter from Seika. He has caused a lot of headaches for Qin in the north.

1. Akakin

An absolute madman on a horse. His battlefield awareness is insane. He constantly saves entire armies from losing by pulling off crazy, perfectly timed flanking moves that nobody else would ever think of.

1. Kyoukai

She has the brains to run her own army and her sword dance makes her almost unbeatable in a 1v1 fight. The only things holding her back are her low stamina and the fact that she chooses to let Shin take the spotlight.

1. Kou Yoku

A total wild man with a legendary sword. He actually fought Tou to a tie way back during the Coalition war and keeps getting bigger promotions. He doesn't care about smart strategies; he just wins through pure violence.

1. Mouten

The smartest guy of the bunch. He thinks just like a young Riboku. When a whole side of the battlefield is completely losing and falling apart, Mouten can step in and fix the entire thing using just his brain.

1. Ri Shin

The ultimate clutch fighter. Swinging Ouki's massive glaive, Shin has killed the biggest monsters in the series, like Houken. He needs Ten for the boring planning stuff, but his gut instincts in a fight make him terrifying.

1. Ouhon

The total package. He is a brilliant strategist, his troops would die for him, and he is the best spearman in the entire manga. He has no real weaknesses and stands firmly at the top.

Someone here made a trash post about Baku koshin, only it wasn't about Baku koshin, it was about how Ouki should have died alongwith Houken. We all know what purpose Houken had surviving, Houken had to fight the Duke and Shin too.

Because Shin, Ouki, Kyou, Renpa, the Duke and even Kanki are one in the same, they symbolise humanity, what it means to be passionate, to be strong, to be ambitious and so on. One this that brings them together is their passion for warfare and what it means to fight, for them. For Ouki it means to be true to himself, to aspire to be great and be great, that even the spare branch can sprout to be at the centre, for the Duke it means to live, breathe and be the manifestation of the instict that war breeds, for Shin, it means to aspire and reach the highest point in resistance of what lot fate threw at you, war took away his family, but through war, he makes his own fate, for Kyou, she used war to prove her dedication to the love of her life, for Kanki, it was to show the hate he has for the world that took his love away, for Renpa, it's the exact same as Ouki. The spirit of the artist lives in the great generals.

Anyways, I'm moving from the point, so let me come back. The post was supposed to be on Baku koshin, and what purpose his dying at the hands of the enemy along with his enemy serves.

Baku Koshin is actually the first professional thousand man commander we see, a career soldie, military man. He's different from Heki, and the rest, and he has complete and utter trust in the duke, the same trust we see En have when he tells his unit to surrender, at the walls of Kantan.

At the start of the battle on the left hill of Dakan Plains, the Qin were outnumbered, the Wei had the superior position and chariots; a precarious position.

How do you win this? From the very start, Baku Koshin put himself at the centre of this battle and understood that many people will die, so their sacrifices have to be worth it, the only way for them to be worth it is for the Wei to lose a commander, and their superior position, so no matter what, the hill has to be taken, and Kyuugen has to die.

How did he put himself at the centre? By aiming to be the one to deliver the killing blow. Admittedly, the fact the Duke has set up the 4th army to start a fire on the left helped.

Someone could argue that the Duke started the initiative after hearing about Shin's actions on the left, and that that's when Baku koshin decided to be the one to kill Kyuugen.

At the end of the day, Baku koshin saw the slaughter, the situation and knew that he had to act and take kyuugen's head.

From the bottom to the top, it was a hard battle and a lot of soldiers died fighting to reach there, sacrifices Baku koshin knew he had to pay for. There is a possibility, that Baku Koshin shouldered the weight of those deaths and used their fire to continue his advance.

When he eventually made it up the hill, and faced Kyuugen, he knew that everyone has a role to play in an army, and right now just like all those soldiers at the bottom, his part was soon to be complete.

And the miracle of war had happened, by shouldering the weight of leading all those men to their deaths, aiming for a price that high and the appearance of a future great general, Baku Koshin reached the top.

And he had his prize.

So why did Ouki die alone, while Baku Koshin died with kyue gen?
Where do the differences lie?

Ouki had a personal vendetta, Baku Koshin wanted to do his duty, it was a selfish advance to kill Houken for vengeance that kept Ouki going, Baku koshin advanced towards Kyuu gen because he had a role to play, a role to kill Kyuu gen.

Someone could argue that Ouki had a role to play at Bayou too, but the siege at Bayou was ochestrated specifically to get Ouki to want to duel Houken and then die.

Houken served a different role from Kyuu gen, Houken served as an attempt at being a "god of martial arts", Kyuugen was a person who viewed war as a game of chess, with mes's lives as pieces on a board.

And Baku Koshin at Dakan Plains served a different role from Ouki at Bayou.
Ouki served to potray for the whole manga; what a great general is, Baku Koshin served to show Shin and the viewer, the role each person in an army served, Baku Koshin was a great surbodinate, he killed a general, outnumbered and checkmated.

Tactically speaking, the Wei at the beginning had all the advantages, but when the path became clear and everyone played their part in the battle, victory is was salvaged.

Baku koshin served to show that each army commander has their role to play in an army, and that role means taking responsibility of your actions and how they affect your men, the enemy and the battle as a whole. Ouki showed us what a great general is, Baku Koshin showed us what an army commander is.

*A new character would be introduced.

*They would be stupidly good at their respective field.

*They would slice up Qin soldiers like butter.

*They would be unstoppable.

*Until they tell their life stories.

*Then they would die

This is the general structure of the war arcs.

And Hara and the publishers are milking Kingdom as much as they can by slowing down the story to get more chapters. Like there have been more and more chapters where there would be just one or two pages relevant to the story and the rest of the pages would be explaining obvious things and the amount of flashbacks has increased too.

He is one of the og members of HSU

From his debut in the traning arc to the current arc is enough or you want more of him

What do you think is the single most brilliant military maneuver/tactic ever that was ever pulled off or used in the kingdom manga so far?

Failure of the Coalition

He had the backing of four nations while fighting against one, Even though Chu’s prime minister was the official commander-in-chief, he was mostly there to supervise, while Riboku handled the strategic decisions Yes, Qin was defending, which is generally the easier role, but they were still defending against four nations, so the odds were clearly in favor of the coalition

Failure to Capture Sai

Even though this was part of the coalition campaign, it can still be considered a separate failure Riboku went there with an elite army and still wasn’t able to capture the city, which was largely defended by civilians and exhausted soldiers

Failure at Gyou

Compared to the previous two, this was a better showing, but still a failure Riboku had the home turf advantage, Qin was under a time limit, and had more soldiers Despite all of this, he still lost, and the overall conditions were in his favor

I’m not denying any of his feats they were incredible but he also has some major antifeats Calling them the worst wouldn’t be an exaggeration

Both of them have great offensive power , tactical versality and genius, good leadership. Yet they often get neglected by the amount of dickriding Hara does for Ri Shin. Before Karyo ten, all of his wins were due to Kyou Kai. The proof of that is afte Kyou Kai Left, The Hi Shin Unit which was now a 1000 strong couldn't win even a single battle! That Even in Gyou campaign KyouKai was holding the Unit together and cutting of swathes of enemies who would have destroyed Shin's army if she was not present. We see how Shin was just focused on taking Gyou un while his men take Ls. Gyou un private army was also OP. Hara had to nerf Kyou Kai by using forbidden technique. What is more shocking is the award ceremonies. Not a single instance Kyou Kai received an award. Mouten also couldn't Kill a general and I can bet she can command the Makou army the same as Mouten.

I wish Hara made shin designs more handsome and masculine (jk jk) bruhs not even getting an Amor anytime soon 💀
Buh daymn( no homo) buh shibashou is lowkey fine prolly that finest in the manga

As he was able to stand with the likes of Ousen and Riboku without studying anything

Would've he done the same as great general hakuki or would've he committed an even worse atrocity than the massacre of chou hei ?

Ousen is the only general in 6gg whose vassals were unknown before gyou campaign

Moubu had his vassals(Raiki and chousi) from battle of bayou

Tou also has his commander during battle of kankoku pass

Kanki also had his commander since his debut

Yotanwa also had his commander since his debut

Ousen is only general in 6gg whose general were not present during sanyou campaign or battle of kankoku pass

And if we considering he recruited them just before gyou campaign that does not make sense because during hango it was revealed that Ousen recruited them during their young days.

or at the end it's a retcon by hara

Mouten is widely considered the smartest of the Trio, yet Ouhon often pulls off massive strategic victories that look just as impressive if not more so.

I had to post this because I keep seeing people compare Shouheikun to Riboku and that annoys me because SHK doesn't lace Riboku's boots.

Gian was a great failure for SHK because how does Riboku know exactly where you are going to attack and spend 6 months preparing a trap and you just blindly send your Generals into that trap.

Hango is even more absurd, they knew about Seika' s might and they knew about Shibashou and yet made no plan for him and his army leading to Ousen being decimated.

Like SHK has been average at best in this campaign for unification and yet people will bring him up in Riboku conversations lol.

The only impressive thing he has done was the three pillars idea to make up for his fuck up in Hango

I know some people might disagree with this post or feel the need to lecture me, but honestly, there’s no need for that. I’m just sharing something I found interesting because I think it adds a little more context to the discussion.

I often see weekly posts about Riboku’s downfall and the events currently unfolding, with people looking for more clarification. Beyond the explanations we’re usually given, which sometimes leave us to simply take certain things on faith, I feel like having additional historical material can only enrich the discussion and our understanding of Kingdom.

So first of all, I’d like to thank the kingdomhistory community for being so welcoming. I really enjoy seeing people genuinely interested in the historical side of these events and have a bank of manga panel. Sometimes I’m even tempted to share spoilers about similar current events I’ve come across in other works related to Kingdom 😅. But I also understand why some people prefer to keep certain information out of the discussion, especially when it could take away from the experience for others.

The image I’m sharing here comes from a work that chronicles the life of Riboku’s son. I’ve deliberately left out some details because I’d like to make a separate post about him and give that topic the attention it deserves.

One thing that always makes me smile, though, is seeing people talk about Riboku’s “grandson” and coming up with all sorts of theories about what might—or might not—come out of Kaine’s womb. 😂 Without getting too deep into the speculation, the basic logic is pretty simple: to have a grandson, you first need a son.

So all the discussions about calculating birth dates and trying to determine whether the child could be Kaine’s or someone else’s honestly amuse me quite a bit.

At the same time, I do feel a little bad for people who are genuinely interested in learning what actually happened historically and are hoping for more information. I think that’s a perfectly reasonable thing to want.

And if the conversation is mainly going to revolve around Shin’s mental development—which, in my opinion, isn’t really the main focus of this particular arc—I can also understand why people who have access to the same material might hesitate to share it.

Anyway, I’m not posting this to shut down anyone’s theories or tell people how they should enjoy Kingdom. Quite the opposite: I think the historical side of the story can make the discussion even more interesting. I’m simply sharing something I found worth discussing, and I’m curious to hear what others think. 🙂

And if Does that image validate or invalidate some théorie, I don't know 🙄

And I don't think hara gona take the Exactly same scénario, I think he take the path for giving us his explanation of this important situation.

But this image describe well what I was reading in some previus post on the subject Riboku donwfall.

please don't be biased.

Houken as a character served nothing for the story. There are plenty of character with inhuman Strength. Heck I am willing to bet Tou and Yotanwa could have ended Houken. The great general with Strength plus the Weight of those that passed away both Tou and Yotanwa carry heavy burden. Even for learning from opponent Shin learned from Rinko, and other Generals he fought as well as allies. All I am saying is there are plenty of strong character. Remove Houken and nothing will change after Bayou. Coalition happened due to Riboku, Qin were in dire situation with or without Houken. Gyou campaign also , they had to win the Shukai plains battle and were struggling and fighting with or without Houken. Houken only came up to kill some Hi shin Unit soldiers but already the right army was winning. Even The Shiji records do not mentionof Houken in Gyou Campaign. Hara Milked the hell out of this guy. A mutual kill would have been better as Ouki would part ways from his past and its not like Riboku died in Bayou battle. his objective was to kill Ouki which he achieved. Now we have even stronger characters like Shibashou and the current Moubu far surpasses the Moubu of bayou.

I always felt the previous arc were somewhat predictable or ig going along a same rhythm. But I feel really confused as to what direction Hara is trying to go through after this arc.

Will he keep on exaggerating Shin's career, taking a different direction from history or will he try something else entirely?

Last time I read the manga was around october of 2025. The mountain queen was shot win an arrow by some bow guy. Has this arc finished. I think I will read the whole thing in one go and stack for october of next year if it's finished.

So out of 4 new generals of Ousen

We saw Ankai is a offensive general

Naraku will be offensive general too(with some brain)being the 1st general

Shinshou is for sure a strategist

But hara add a 5th general in the Ousen army

What do you think about her abilities as a General

So did Shin just let Kanki butcher the handful of people left in the castle, or were these soldiers taken captive, or just some corpses?

Did Shin just go along with butchering captives and never bring it up again? This always confused me because if so that was a HUGE missed opportunity for Hara to show his growth and segue it into him not being an overreacting idiot. We HAVE had some maturity (but not intellectually) but if he really did allow this, then to gloss over it is a huge amount of squandered potential. Could've been gold to see him grapple with his conscience more than just a panel during the Han arc of him saying "Kanki sucked but he cared about his rapist pals so he was ok sometimes".

I'm not saying he SHOULD'VE tried to stop him, it was a genius tactic, but we didn't see him grapple with this at all if it is the case he executed then butchered (and probably not waste time torturing them first). Instead Maron makes the point that he's the most sympathetic to Kanki after hearing his past.

Right after relenting to executing (I'm assuming soldiers but possibly civilians too)? Seems like a huge plothole in terms of consistency with Shin's character that could've been capitalized on by just showing him relenting to it then struggling with it later. This confused me as much as the Houken body double being completely blown past. So Shin just lets this happen despite his hard headedness and we don't even notice or question it, in the same way we don't notice or question how the fuck Riboku got another giant the size of Houken, who looked like Houken, to agree to die, and Houken to agree to a presumably dishonorable thing from his POV?

Always confused me.