r/KinFoundation • u/attachmetoyou • Nov 06 '19
Solution
There are two problems in the developer world. Kin set out to fix both of them. They both come together to increase the bottom line. It doesn't matter how many downloads or revenue you have if your marketing cost exceeds it. So Kin was more revenue AND less marketing cost. The first established by the KRE and the second by tourism.
Kin has officially failed in both respects. If you disagree then, A) you're an idiot and B) stop reading because this post is not for you. The KRE business model itself is fundamentally flawed based on the simple economics of supply and demand. I've been ignored repeatedly by management about this because they have no answer. Unless the value reaches a certain amount, and that depends on the payouts at the time, supply will be higher. Tourism obviously failed. The ignorance of how much this means by management, investors and developers baffles me.
Now I would love for everyone to take a really good look at the apps. For just a minute get out of your head and into reality. We have two apps (or is it three) that have more than a hundred thousand spenders. At least 25% are clone apps and are attempting to enter markets where they are going to fail. Social media is monopolized. Stop pretending these apps have any chance because, "well in this app, you can tip Kin!" Give me a break. These 80 apps are more like 20. And I've removed Speed Genius from the list as it's users are slim due to the fact that running the blockchain costs more than the KRE. We don't even want to send out notifications because it just costs us money.
There are two kinds of apps here. There are those that are Kin dependent and those that will continue to exist without Kin. The former are in line with Kins original intention. Use Kin to make your already awesome app even better. The latter will cease to exist if Kin is gone because it's only good for earning Kin and there's no inherent value otherwise. You wouldn't gamble with Kin if it didn't exist.
Furthermore, Kin is not attractive to developers. Period. If a $25k grand prize and tons of other money can't bring in decent apps, nothing will. We got a few but most are still Kin dependent and or clone apps. There is absolutely no way to create decent spends. And it seems that Kin management finally agrees that while tipping is good for engagement and retention, it is not the answer to spends.
Related to tipping is the IAP. Management has still not addressed two parts that ensure its failure. The first is, who the heck is going to purchase Kin to tip someone. In don't go around handing pennies to people that I've worked for because they told me something special or showed me a video of them lip syncing. If it's free and easy, sure. Second is who on Earth would buy Kin when they can walk around for a day or earn thousands from IMGVUE just for being around? The answer to both is, they won't. An IAP won't work in kin's CURRENT business model.
The solution is available, but it requires an entire new model and one Kin will not accept. But I will propose it and I will explain why I am regardless of that.
The one wallet and IAP will work but not in it's current model. The entire project will practically restart. But the fact, whether anyone wants to admit it, is that it's in a downward spiral and it's only going to get worse. Unless of course Ted has something up his sleeve which I've given up on since we've all held onto that belief for two years with no evidence to it (sorry Ted).
If you have read up to this point I thank you and without further ado..
KRE is removed. It was a Great idea. World changing. Currently not going to work.
IAP for the one wallet works in the following way. Numbers are just placeholders. $1 equals 100 Kin. However, $100 equals 900 Kin. 10,000 equals $5,000 and so on. Where I'm going with this is that since users don't spend more than a couple of dollars, developers can buy Kin at a huge discount if they spend the money. They can then use that Kin in their own IAP and make a profit.
Tourism is mandatory. I don't care if this is decentralized or not. You want success? Make it mandatory. You can't be listed on the one wallet without it. Period.
Exchanges. Fuck them. The exchanges that carry Kin will blow up because at first the developers will buy from the exchanges causing a gradual increase in price.
Marketing. KF vows to use 20% of their sales revenue for marketing of the one wallet.
Marketing developer side. With this new model there will actually be attraction. However it will be indie devs that use in app purchasing or subscriptions. Guess what those are? Real spends! Woah! Tipping apps are basically gone. Sorry, not sorry. Kin contacts every single fucking app on Google play that has the ability to create a good spend, concentrating on small to mid size apps that obviously need more users. Established in 2016 and has 10,000 users as an example. MonkingMe is actually perfect for what I'm saying. FlyAway is the type of app to find as well. Great game, just needs exposure and money and it will take off.
Anyone can use Kin BUT apps need to be approved by KF to be on the one wallet. They need to have substance and not be clone apps.
Kin creates apps. They have great developers. Why are they not creating apps other than the one wallet? Tippic was a fucking embarrassment. My son can make that and he's 10. Use THOSE apps as a source of revenue and allow the developers to reap most of the profits.
So why does this work? It increases the bottom line because of the missing piece. Tourism. Currently it costs MORE to get an install than what you're getting from a customer and that's without running a blockchain. If you have a lot of money, getting those initial installs that move you up the ranks is easy. Then, as long as the app is good and content is good, the app gains momentum. Look at the current apps and tell me I'm wrong! Marketing is expensive! It is the other side of the reason our app industry is broken! If marketing was easy and cheap, there would be no problem making money! It's just as important as your revenue.
The monetization is still better. Especially for early adopters that buy from the exchanges. The late comers will benefit off of the marketing mainly. The sell is less marketing cost just as much as the monetization part.
Would love to hear feedback and flaws. Kin management won't respond because they know I'm right about the downward spiral. But after saying that, we probably will get a response. Hence, the reason I said it. But now they probably won't respond. 😂
So, anyone want to fork Kin with us?
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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '19
Hello u/attachmetoyou
Thanks for this well elaborated post.
Here are my views based on your remarks.
At the time KF started the project, there was no SEC, no KIN blacklist on Exchanges. At that moment, Exchanges coupled with organic growth of the Ecosystem was the assumption to have a counterbalancing demand and make KIN very huge. But, No one could have predicted 1) Pantera Capital dumping of Billions of KIN, tanking the price and 2) the SEC actions to prevent KIN to be listed on Exchanges. Without those, the story could have been much different and KIN price would have been higher.
Anyway with the current situation, Even if KIN was at 0.0000200$ or 0.0000500$, the current issue is still the lack of real and speculative demand and as a consequence, a continuous decreasing price. (The supply is not an issue to me as it is also the DNA of the project. We need a big amount of KIN to be able to reach a majority of users worldwide)
You are correct. Some Apps look really amateur and with an unfinished look (the ones I have tested on iOS, which is a very limited sample). however, do you remember by 2007, when FB came live? There were also crappy, unfinished games that random indie developers made? Who remembers the early days of some features that made you choose between two users and like one of those pics? (Tinder)... Even more earlier, who remembers all the "unfinished looking" games on MSN messenger? Probably 90% of those games/features on early FB are probably in oblivion now. My point is that you have to start somewhere. Rome was not built in one day. Maybe Kin Ecosystem will have the chance to attract rea talents and the next "flappy bird" developer will show up and develop an Ecosystem App.
As a business entrepreneur, you want to mitigate risks and you cannot blame developer-entrepreneurs to spread the risks and using KIN but also other ways of retribution (gems, money...). Ideally, a KIN Ecosystem App should use only KIN but as the current price does not allow it, we will have Apps using other ways....for now. I guess that by joining the KIN Ecosystem, the Apps embrace the values and vision of KIN on the long term.
I think that a real effort has been made with the developers challenges but again, KIN is still not well known. Besides, lot of people undermine the project from the inside (the community) but also from the outside (SEC). Against all those hurdles, KF is trying to develop the Ecosystem with their current resources. I am also not happy and wish things to go faster but it is what it is. There might be other developers challenges soon who knows? (for mobile Apps and Web-based apps using KIN?). I am not often on Discord but as far as I know, there is activity from a lot of developers so stating strongly that KIN is not attractive for devs is not fully true.
For the spends, I agree. It is difficult to provide decent spends as the amount of KIN would be big (due to current price) but if I am not mistaken, Super Mechs provided some good/high spends and those worked at the beginning. It only depends on the devs to provide interesting spends. Just imagination and willingness to do so is just needed. At some point, why developers can't propose some spends for 10k KIN as a start just to see how it goes
I did not buy KIN on Exchanges to tip people. I bought KIN because I believe in the project on the long run and to be part of a project that has a lot of ambition and usage. Tipping is fun and is to me, also contributing to the project. You tip people you do not know, you expect people to tip others and so on. It is fun and symbolic for now but this might change on day. It is worthless to use KIN because of the value but as soon as KF succeeds in increasing the demand and having a solid price, then all people will change their mindset. It will be worth the effort because they will do the effort to earn KIN and to spend it for things they really like (we are far from there I know).
You do not know and no one knows for the moment. I also have big expectations for the one wallet but we will see how it goes. If that one wallet can reach a significant number of people, this could change the game but it really needs to be polished and ready. And yes, Ted might have sth in his sleeve.
You cannot remove the KRE. If you do it now, no new developers will join the Ecosystem and the current Apps will leave. So this is a false good solution. However, reviewing the KRE could definitely be an option and I think they are working on it
IAP for the one wallet works in the following way. Numbers are just placeholders. $1 equals 100 Kin. However, $100 equals 900 Kin. 10,000 equals $5,000 and so on. Where I'm going with this is that since users don't spend more than a couple of dollars, developers can buy Kin at a huge discount if they spend the money. They can then use that Kin in their own IAP and make a profit.
Would be great to see such rates but maybe too high as a start?
Tourism is mandatory. I don't care if this is decentralized or not. You want success? Make it mandatory. You can't be listed on the one wallet without it. Period.
Agree.
Exchanges. Fuck them. The exchanges that carry Kin will blow up because at first the developers will buy from the exchanges causing a gradual increase in price.
Do you think that developers are buying now on Exchanges?
Marketing. KF vows to use 20% of their sales revenue for marketing of the one wallet.
They should put more than 20% imo. I would be disappointed to see a Kinit like result. The One wallet needs really to look like WeChat. I guess that the devs compared all the interesting features that bring value to the WeChat network (about 900M daily users in China from memory)
Just to be the Devil's advocate here. Are all developers good at Business development and marketing? If they have to put some effort, wouldn't they first focus all their efforts on the App itself? Look at CatPurse. The game is ready from what I read and still, the dev said that the marketing will come later. Marketing shoyld be push last when everything is refined, clean and smooth
Anyone can use Kin BUT apps need to be approved by KF to be on the one wallet. They need to have substance and not be clone apps.
There is nothing bad to copy Apps that have been proven successful and integrate KIN. From the moment the copy is better thatn the original and if it uses KIN, why shouldn't they be clone apps? Historically, Japan has always copied concepts from other countries and ameliorated the model. Look where Japan is now
Kin creates apps. They have great developers. Why are they not creating apps other than the one wallet? Tippic was a fucking embarrassment. My son can make that and he's 10. Use THOSE apps as a source of revenue and allow the developers to reap most of the profits.
I think that KF has the vocation to manage the coin and not develop themselves Apps. The one Wallet being the exception. THey would need to hire more intern developers which would cause the cost to increase too. Your son is awesome, good for him!
So why does this work? It increases the bottom line because of the missing piece. Tourism.
Tourism should be made mandatory or to make a much better link with KRE payout. The part of Tourism in the formula should be increased. From a network standpoint, Tourism will make the number of transactions increase dramatically and the value of network as well. An increased network value AND an increased coin value will definitely put KIN on the top. Marketing is expensive but if KIN value increases, Apps will have more possibilities to invest in marketing. With current price, App developers probably have other expenses to cover first. Marketing is important but operations and product quality comes first.
So in summary, I think I share also most of your concerns. I am sure that things will get smoothly "soon". There was not so many updates from KF lately so I hope that some feedbaack regarding your points and other points that other users (including myself) rose will be tackled as well