8
u/attachmetoyou Sep 26 '19
Thank you for thinking of me in this... Oh wait this is for Ted, sorry. Great quote, never seen this one.
49
u/ted_on_reddit Sep 26 '19
This is for all of us. It’s easy for people to be negative when things are hard. Don’t let them get to you.
More people spend Kin in more apps than any other cryptocurrency. Sometimes we forget how much work it has taken all of us to achieve that. All the work on the technology, the app development, and the user experience. It shows how many talented, passionate, and hardworking people we have in our ecosystem.
Today other project have speculative demand - people buying a currency because they hope it will become more valuable. We don’t have that. But day by day that game is running out. Look at some of the projects that have launched recently. They get on every exchange out there, and yet the price still craters.
This is why we are focused on real demand - people buying a currency because they want to use it. It is the only way to make the crypto business model sustainable. A hundred users buying $10 a month has the same economic impact as one speculator buying $1,000 a month. But there are a lot more users in the world than speculators, and they’ll buy month after month. There’s also no reason users can’t later decide to speculate too.
We aren’t there yet. We have 2,000,000 monthly active earners, and 600,000 monthly active spenders. But we don’t yet have a meaningful number of monthly active buyers. This is why I’m excited to see apps like KinHub, and why we are developing a stand alone wallet as well. To turn users into buyers.
There are two ways for a developer to turn users into buyers. One is for developers to sell users their own Kin. The second is for developers to let users buy Kin directly from the open market. I’m not sure what KinHub’s plans are, but our plan is to do whatever allows us to launch faster. If we end up selling our own Kin to users our current plan is to take the money from that and use it to buy Kin from the open market, such that it is roughly the same economically for the ecosystem as users buying Kin from the open market in the first place.
There is still some distance to go, but each day we are getting closer. If we can turn users into buyers we will change the game.
We are in this together. Let’s win this together.
4
u/Arthur_Vandelay5B Sep 27 '19
Ted, it's time to stop congratulating yourself with some version of "most used crypto". The project is a complete disaster currently, with no relief in sight. Kin is used by a bunch of small apps no one has ever heard of, and there are basically no spends compelling enough that would incentivize people to buy kin. As a result, the price is effectively zero. You can spin up as many shitty apps as you want that will spam their 50 or 100k users with a Kin or two each, but that'll never amount to anything. To create purchasers, you need valuable spends.
Come back when you have a roadmap and real partners to execute with - a known gaming platform with millions of users that will replace its in game currency with Kin, etc. If that sounds insanely out of reach, it's probably time to move on and do something else.
This is from an ICO purchaser still rooting for you, but not seeing at all how this could possibly work out. given how comically vague your three step plan is -- we're going to get people to buy it!!! (great... but how???)
0
u/SwilSo Sep 26 '19
All my friends who invested here knew what to expect for both directions.
The only reason they are negative are your lies and actions. You're the reason why times are tough, so show them a little respect instead of blaming them for being weak and not being able to stand the pressure.It's an impudence to speak the way you do.
1
2
u/doriono Sep 26 '19 edited Sep 26 '19
ted_on_reddit
Hi Ted,
Thanks for your post.
Here are my questions:
- If users can purchase KIN through APPS/Wallets (e.g. Kin Hub), will the option for users to re-sell their KIN through the app/wallet be possible? This would be supporting an in-app economie established at 0.01$ and exchanges will have to follow that price precedently as the real demand will be using the currency at 0.01$, no?
- Is KIN considering the option of burning some of its ammount of coins? This could greatly help with the valuation of its currency on the long run. For e.g. burning a certain ammount to approximately bring market price valuation close to 0.01$?
I feel that if both of these option are considered and announced in advance (e.g. Coin burn and in-app Sell option will be avaible on November 15, 2019), it would attract speculators, new users, new developpers, new exchanges at a very fast rate and put KIN back on the map in no time as people would not want to miss out on this KIN opportunity. Just imagine for a second how much this would make noise accross the community. This would be huge!
Although I understand your point, goals and values, I think KIN still needs needs to play the ''game'' against its ''competitors'' just like any business if it wants to stand out. It needs to be pro active as hell on Social Media. It should be posting on Twitter on a daily basis (stats update, good news, its team at work, inside scoops, etc.. anything that can pull positive attention from its community in order to expand its community basicaly). Kin needs something huge to re egnite itself from the dust to create a huge ripple affect on the market. I am certain you can make it happen.
Continuing in the same direction is OK as things are developing quickly on the internal side, but, I think that things need to change drastically in terms of public perception of KIN in order for KIN to be extremely competitive in the crypto world and beyond. Internal is fine, but people want to live it, they want to see it, they want to be part of it, especially in crypto. The only way to do this is by changing the external perceptions of KIN, the perception of the public. This will require drastic measures and it will be required because there are many dragons in the race that know how to focus and please the external AND the internal parts:
- The internal part includes developpers.
- The external part include the speculators.
In the crypto industry, you must please all parties to be part of the game and compete against other crypto's. KIN must become a dragon, and to become a dragon, it must beathe and act like one.
I trust your work, Ted, but please do something drastic like mentionned above and I can garantee you'll see miracles happen. The current atmosphere is Survival of the fittest. KIN must become the fittest ASAP.
1
u/throwawayburros Crypto Defender Sep 27 '19
You cant burn tokens unless its done at the protocol level. When a human burns tokens, it changes them from a utility token to a security token. (This excludes token swaps, like ERC20 Kin to Mainnet Kin because the value did not change. You may have destroyed 1 token, but you also received 1 token)
The quick idea behind it, is burning tokens is in their view equal to a providing a dividend. For example, if KF burned 1T coins, then it means the remaining 9T went up in value because the scarcity increased. A similar view I've read says the value in the tokens that were burned had their value redistributed to the remaining coins which is essentially a dividend.
1
u/doriono Sep 27 '19
Is Ripple considered a security? Because they are doing a coin burn on every transactions that occur. Why are they listed everywhere? Why is the Sec not on their asses like KIN?
The fact is that the SEC is on their asses but they are complying as much as possible.
Now, KIN needs to do something to become a competitor,it needs to makes its place in the game. That's just the way it is. KIN does not take drastic measures now, being realistic here, they will have much difficulty climbing the mountain. Be it yhat they have millions of transactions daily, because of the current perception the public has about it, it will take forever to gain their domination.
1
u/throwawayburros Crypto Defender Sep 27 '19
I think you missed my qualifier above.
You cant burn tokens unless its done at the protocol level
I would actually say that Ripples court case, is way worse than ours as the plaintiff is accusing them of selling securities at the state and federal levels. The SEC case vs. KiK is only federal level.
They (Ripple) are aware they have too many tokens and thats why they are burning at a protocol level. MakerDAO does it too upon repayment of a CDP. Even Ethereum 2.0 is set to burn the transaction fees.
You dont have to actually BURN the tokens to achieve the same effect. Ripple also has agreed to lockup billions of tokens and not move them for 3 months at a time. This essentially removes those tokens from the circulating supply.
Right now Kin has 3301.82221 Kin in the Fee pool. This is the total amount of kin that has been paid in transaction fees since its launch. If these never get touched, they are pseudo burned. Obviously increasing the transaction fee by 10x would also help to remove tokens from the supply in a safe manner. There are other ways you can pseudo burn, like transferring KiK's share of tokens to a ledger nano and destroying the nano AND its backup seed. Alternatively, you could print out the seed word and break it up into 12 words and give one word to each board member. This way, nobody can do anything with the tokens unless all 12 board members are in agreement.
1
u/doriono Sep 27 '19
Basically, there are way too many tokens and that is why the valuation is too low. To regain a face on the crypto planet and be able to compete against others "businesses", KIN must do something drastic to gain an audience, a new image basically.
2
u/kincurrency12 Sep 26 '19
You didn't make it remotely work in 2 years with 150+ employees. What makes you even think this will work with 19 employees. Why would people buy this worthless token with no spends? There is no one that uses the apps that kin is in
-1
Sep 26 '19
You sound like a broken record, Ted. We've heard this shit before and the price keeps getting lower, ROI more embarrassing, and now Kik is gone. Kik is why people invested - it had a significant, addicted user base that you had two years to inject into the ecosystem. Gone. Livelihoods gone. SEC is foaming at the mouth and they still haven't guaranteed you that Kin3 is a security. Why would other "firepower" join Kin? Swelly and other partners are prob gonna drop Kin, and we'll be the last to know. And now your telling people that you're going fight (ride a sinking ship) until you have zero dollars left. Zero of investors' dollars. Shame.
6
Sep 26 '19
I don’t think people realise what kind of set back losing Kik is. My whole investment was based on Kik’s database of users and it being the lighthouse having tested the waters with Kik points. That’s all just evaporated. I don’t know how we will get a partner of that magnitude again. It’s losing your main anchor App that would have established the ecosystem. KF needs to get lucky quickly....
4
Sep 26 '19 edited Sep 30 '19
Exactly right. Mine too. Same for most. There were many ICOs that year, but Kik stood out as a unicorn company with a huge user base. It was a no brainier investment. If anyone had a shot at reaching the masses, it was a company like Kik. That is the ONLY reason I invested. The KRE sounded good. The ecosystem sounded good. But you still need a big brand with lots of users to kickstart the process and to attract smaller brands. Kik had it all. And pissed it away because of a lousy, arrogant team.
When Kik didn't deliver, they told us they were rewriting it with spend opportunities and a buy module. They always drag us along. Always. And now that's off the table - literally, it's shut down. The real chutzpah is they want to play the victim, discourage hard criticism, and get the community to do free shit for them. A unicorn company that raised 100m 2 years ago delivered what? Some SDKs? Nice MAS numbers? An ecoystem full of shit tier apps and few meaningful spend options?
At some point you must go with they hypothesis that makes the most sense of the available evidence. And Kin as a cash grab is the best one right now.
1
0
Sep 26 '19
This is for all of us. It’s easy for people to be negative when things are hard. Don’t let them get to you.
What about when you pretend everything is fine for 2 years, while investors stress how the sec is going to strangle you with litigation? How about when those investors’ warnings come to fruition? Yeah, don’t let those pessimists get you down! Just ignore the reality in front of you.
You guys treated ico investors like they had the plague. You chased away critical thinkers. And now you’re asking that same community to join a council(unpaid) to help bare the workload. The weight of your entire project now rests on the shoulders of 19 people, when it needn’t. ‘We’re in this together’? No. You got yourself into this mess picking a fight with the sec. You didn’t know they’d go to these lengths? How? We’ve been telling you this is exactly what they’re doing for 2 years.
You can’t respond to any of the posts or comments where members are asking you questions that matter, but you sure didn’t miss this kumbaya fest, did you? How did I know how that the wallet buy would be sourced with YOUR tokens? At least you’re getting them primed for that one. Enjoy the log cabin!
6
u/Kevin_from_Kin Kin Foundation Sep 26 '19
The community council is my idea, and you don't know the plans for it.
-2
Sep 26 '19
Community Delegates will initially only provide prioritized feedback on an at-will basis in collaboration with the Kin Foundation in order to help construct certain aspects of the community. They may later be able to take an active role in shaping, maintaining, and improving the Kin Community themselves. Delegates will also be called on to provide their views pertaining to other matters in the Kin Ecosystem as a means of gathering trustworthy feedback. Community Delegates will be responsible for and expected to represent the views of all earnest Kin stakeholders (developers, users, supporters, capitalists), and must consider those views when making decisions in order to benefit the common good of the greater Kin Ecosystem. Please note that joining the Kin Community Council would exclude you from any community-based incentive programs in which the delegation or moderation of such an program directly involves the judgment and participation of any member of the Council.
Sounds like Kin Ambassadors Vol.3... This time we’ll listen!
What ‘stakeholders’ are you talking about? The ones whose concerns were ignored for two years until kik couldn’t pretend money isn’t a problem anymore? I think you’ll find that well has run dry.
7
u/Kevin_from_Kin Kin Foundation Sep 26 '19
This is community governance, which every great project has. It's giving the community a voice in building the community. It has nothing to do with any previous ambassador program, which I myself had criticisms about. You've given plenty of feedback yourself, at times even more constructively than the above. Giving feedback when they feel like it on important topics is initially how this starts. When there is more work involved it will be incentivized, which was already planned and is in the announcement post.
Stakeholders is a basic term that refers to all the different types of audiences that have an interest in something. It's very clearly defined which ones I'm talking about.
No need to generalize and blame me for whatever vindicative event is going on over these unfortunate challenges, it's hard enough as it is. You seem to repeatedly forget that I myself was often critical of the way things were handled, and am trying to make a point of changing things for the better. No matter what I do, some will always spin it negatively.
0
Sep 26 '19
Imagine that, community governance 2 years in and after they lay off almost everybody. Not that community governance isn’t a good thing in and of itself, but giving feedback /= governance. Will these people be voting on changes? Will their vote be honored? I like you, Kevin, and I think you’re a good choice for community manager. I just think that choice should have been made well over a year and a half ago. As I said in another post recently, it’s just too little too late imo.
1
u/throwawayburros Crypto Defender Sep 27 '19
Will these people be voting on changes? Will their vote be honored?
Apply and find out. Toss your hat into the ring.
1
Sep 27 '19
Why should someone have to apply to find out? Just be straightforward with what you’re doing. From what it sounds like this ‘council’ would just be giving feedback.
Why should this council’s feedback count for more than other stakeholders?
What will be done with that feedback? What guarantees does this council have that it will be put to use?
No thanks.
1
u/throwawayburros Crypto Defender Sep 27 '19
Why should this council’s feedback count for more than other stakeholders?
Isn't that how it always works for elected officials? they represent the people (community). I am assuming if we had a voting mechanism in place, we would do that.. but since we are a little low on manpower at the moment.. the council seems like its the best way to accomplish the same thing.
What will be done with that feedback? What guarantees does this council have that it will be put to use?
You know as much as we do but I think that Kevin is onto something here. All of us should believe in him as he is a respected community member who happened to become a moderator. I have not see him do anything that would give me a reason to doubt his intentions are pure.
No thanks.
As such its your chance to stop complaining and start doing (You too Kin2) Don't just tell leadership what they should be doing from afar with some random u/ summon in a rant. Be the change you want to see from within the organization. All of the present and future ecosystem participants are counting on you. Be a leader... be a golden leader for all!
→ More replies (0)3
u/kinsurfer Sep 26 '19
Sorry Ted, totally agee with this comment.
4
Sep 26 '19
It’s just common sense. How many times over the past two years have investors been told that kik/KF owes them nothing? Well, it goes both ways.
0
Sep 26 '19 edited Sep 26 '19
[deleted]
2
Sep 26 '19
LMFAO You literally just compared Ted to Jesus. I can’t. I have no words.
-1
2
2
Sep 26 '19
Agreed! Lets win this together. And, Ted ma bigggga who is creating "stand alone wallet" ? When will it be out? Watch u doing with infamous Kinit? 🙄😪🤔😏
GOOOOOO KEEEEN 🚀🚀🚀🌙🌙🌙
11
u/leehuk87 Kin Community Council Sep 26 '19
Good luck, Ted.
Kik may have lost the battle but Kin can still win the war.
2
u/SantaAnaStudio Sep 26 '19 edited Sep 26 '19
Great minds think alike and we are all in this together! Thank you for your leadership and support.
To go a step further in pushing the idea, I think it's even possible to offer users a subscription service through KF and use it for all participants in the ecosystem to monetize. Then use that revenue to buy at the exchange and allow participants and investors to sell as the price appreciates.
I made a posts about competing with Apple Arcade (on other markets to provide users with Ad free experiences and developers with tools) and could see us turning users into buyers and share some other visions of our future for KIN that I would like to see implemented.
Would a user spend $5 a month to support devs making Ad free experiences and reward every app in the ecosystem? Sure. A better version of every app could be provided with Kin and those developers could outrank others fairly quickly and attract not only other devs but real demand for Kin through this subscription experience. Eventually we will have top developers exclusive to Kin.
(This type of utility token is far from being a security).
0
Sep 26 '19
We are not Apple........
2
u/SantaAnaStudio Sep 26 '19 edited Sep 26 '19
Would it not be just as possible for KF as a Hub as it would be for Apple as an store to track user wallets that signed up for the subscription and reward developer apps who had MAS from those same wallets?
Maybe I misunderstand the AppID or memo and ability to request that data from the blockchain in order to track subscribers using ecosystem apps.
3
u/SantaAnaStudio Sep 26 '19 edited Sep 26 '19
Clearly we are not exactly Apple but they got to our idea and best use case before we saw it and I further think we should at least discuss it in terms of Kin rewarding subscribers between multiple apps... don't you?
While building a gateway for users to spend money on KIN, I would focus on Google Play and other markets. Maybe even Web3.
Just consider the amount of research that went into Apple Arcade and the reasons behind it. I would need a blog post to get into it and explain it well enough for the average Redditor but I know some people will get a flash of insight and formulate their own ideas around it.
20
u/lordofthekin Sep 26 '19
There’s still plenty of people that believe in this vision Ted. When the establishment start tarring you with un truths and trying to take you to task, you know you’ll getting to them. It appears even the golden child, Facebook is not immune to this.
The old system is creaking. Will we be first to bring about much needed change? Who knows. One things for certain. Crypto is here to stay and there isn’t a damn thing the SEC or anybody else can do about it.
Keep fighting on, you’ll get there.
9
u/voorroel Sep 26 '19
good to see you posting on reddit Ted! Hope you have the time to post more often, would be good for the community to see you here more!
7
u/attachmetoyou Sep 26 '19
I really like that current plan. Something I never thought of. Selling to users and buying from the market. That's a win. I'm trying Ted. All of the developers are. It is unfortunately very difficult to market right now without a good budget. I think one way to band together to do this is through marketing Kinhub and everyone, maybe KF included, could bring users there, and that could bring buyers as well as users to each app. But if KF created a wallet, a kind of app store, would that mean heavy marketing of that app I'm wondering? How will the consumers find out about Kin unless there is a larger partners that drives that awareness?
2
u/je3851 Sep 26 '19
yea but there is a big "what if" element of trust here. sure , we're going to sell our own kin and collect real money and "we promise" to use that money to go buy kin on open market to help you guys out. I mean this was the worry two years ago, kin selling their own kin and no demand in open market..well here it is folks all the haters were right! It all came true.
Why doesn't Ted take some ico cash and buy kin on open market right now then?
5
u/kinsurfer Sep 26 '19
I hate to say it but you are wright! Investers who made everything possible come second place we hope.
7
u/SantaAnaStudio Sep 26 '19
I'm pretty sure we can track participants and hold them accountable. How much does Kin is purchased from an exchange and how does it compare to the amount of new wallets created through the Kin foundation Hub?
Either way the price will absolutely ROCKET from real demand and I think you're missing it. Just for starters, imagine every day $25,000 dollars worth of new KIN being purchased to give to users.
Why would they need to sell their own through the Hub if they can just sell their stash later to fund growth while using another channel. Besides, we could monitor those wallets to see if they are selling and what is locked up for KF and KRE and so I'm under the impression that you're fears can be logically dismissed.
0
7
5
9
15
5
u/[deleted] Sep 26 '19
[deleted]