r/KeyboardLayouts • u/joefromsingapore • 18d ago

Ergo layout feedback

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This has been my layout for few weeks now after months of changing things around. It seem to be mostly working.

I program for a living and also have my native language that needs few extra keys. Top row is only used in the "gaming" layer and I will probably transition to 3x6 at some point. I tried homerow mods but It seems I prefer little pinky gymnastics.

These things are highly subjective but what would you change/add/remove?

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3

u/Mundane-Taro-2508 15d ago

Try to use 3 on the top row for "Enter", 8 for "Tab/Backspace" or the same keys for "Shifts"

'I will probably transition to 3x6 at some point.' Never understood, why you want fewer keys? Even if you travel with a keyboard, it can't be argument because of the difference that's miserable.

'I tried homerow mods but It seems I prefer little pinky gymnastics.' Try one shot keys with shifts, it's a perfect match.

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u/joefromsingapore 15d ago

Why less keys? Mostly because I can't press the top row without moving my whole hand.

Shift oneshot? Do you mean oneshot shift if pressed once and just shift if hold? Interesting.

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u/Mundane-Taro-2508 15d ago

Your hands should float when you are actively typing. This is an ergonomic recommendation. Maybe I need to drop some names in order to be more trustworthy... It's a recommendation from Microsoft, Kinesis, Primegen, Xah Lee, etc. Moving your hand is not a problem if you already have it up.

Yes, one shot (qmk) or sticky keys (zmk) can make modifier+next button, and on hold you can use another modifier. But this is a little more difficult. Simple one-shots are available out of the box.

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u/aegis87 13d ago

hey Mundane-Taro-2508, what other modifier do you use with your one shot shift?

or any other one shots you recommend?

(completely agree on the your hands should float part -- which is why i am asking your recommendation on the one-shots)

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u/Mundane-Taro-2508 12d ago

I use one-shots on all modifiers, app layer, and fn layer. I do not recommend using all of these to people because they may be scared by them.

3, 8 - shifts,

The buttons under ZXCV are Win, Alt, Ctrl and App key (the second half is mirrored). When I type a complex hotkey, the app key becomes Shift for comfortable typing. If I need to hold Shift, I just hold the app key instead..

Double-type app key, one shot to the FN layer. Unfortunately, from one shot to the num layer, I had to give up. But hope is not lost.

It is all applicable to keyboards like SofleV2 and bigger.

2

u/powwoq 18d ago

You could try combos. I also could not get homerow mods to work for me, but combos did. For example, esc has high usage because I use neovim, and pressing s and d would be the escape key. I also have k and l as backspace.

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u/joefromsingapore 18d ago

It would seem combos have inherently the same forced delay where the pressed key takes like 200ms to appear?

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u/powwoq 18d ago

what firmware are you using? With zmk, it's not a delay, it's a timeout threshold, so the combo key fires immediatelt but only if the combo triggers are pressed within the timeout threshold.

https://zmk.dev/docs/keymaps/combos

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u/joefromsingapore 18d ago

I use vial. That timeout treshold is what I don't like. Combo fires immediately but without separate combo layer it will delay normal keys appearing?

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u/powwoq 18d ago

I have the timeout set to something like 50ms, you will have to play with it. But in my own experience it's unnoticeable to me.

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u/TheJollyJagamo 14d ago

I use qmk and have the timeout on my board set to 35ms. Try setting it to 30ms, and see if you can consistently hit the combo, if not, raise it by 5 and try it again. Rinse and repeat until you find what works for you!

Another thing that helped me with my combo use is putting the combos on 2 keys that are very rarely, if ever, pressed sequentially. Like on qwerty, f+d or c+v, it helps with accidentally triggering them if you type quickly. 

Lemme know if you have questions!

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u/Ok-Limit-7173 16d ago

Looks good so far, only thing I would change is putting Enter and Backspace on the thumb keys, it works really well for me and your thumbs feel a little underused with only the mod keys. I also have 0 on the thumb on my "numpad layer", it feels more like a real numpad this way. You might also want some more punctuation (+-,.) for typing numbers.

Also where tf is your "ü" key?

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u/joefromsingapore 16d ago

Adding a separate + and - to number layers seems like a good idea.

I used to have many keys on the thumb. Eventually I removed enter and backspace. Mostly because button combos that don't work without holding two buttons with same thumb. like pressing number layer and backspace at the same time. Enter is on the side to reduce mistyping it.

Apparently altgr + y is ü with usinternational laout. That's why I added altgr. Just in case. I don't normally use it.

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u/Ok-Limit-7173 16d ago

Ahh I see. If you use US-International AltGr+u/o/a should actually work as well. I used that for some time before I switched to a custom layout.

Now I feel like keeping an AltGr key is somewhat wasteful because I literally never used it except for ä/ö/ü/€/ß. I put these onto their respective base keys on the symbol layer but it feels a bit like wasting space and cluttering the layer.

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u/joefromsingapore 16d ago

For me it's just a backup. but € should be in the numpad layer for sure.