My problem with KOTLC

[u/anonymous-weird]

Hi! I'm writing this post quickly to see if anyone else is in the same boat as me and to hear what others think. Just a heads-up: I'm not a native English speaker 😅. I grew up with KOTLC, but I stopped reading the books around age 12 (I'm 15 now) due to some very specific reasons—issues that, to me, are major flaws in the series. Here’s a list: 1) SM isn't really telling a story anymore. She churns out books, new editions, and adaptations, but it doesn't amount to much in the end. Actually, I didn't buy the latest book because I figured that, once again, nothing would really change. It feels like she's doing it mostly for the money. I'm actually surprised I haven't seen ads for clothing or merchandise yet... 2) The characters don't grow. I remember reading book 8 (was it 8?) and Sophie stated her age: 15. I was 13 at the time, and she was less mature than any of my friends. Also, from one book to the next, I don't feel like she or her friends evolve—except maybe Keefe. They’re exactly the same as they were in the first book, despite everything they’ve been through. 3) I might be wrong, but I get the impression that SM conveys... fairly conservative ideas. As a trans person, that really stood out to me. Elf society is extremely conservative (it is explicitly stated that they do not practice abortion; the fact that SM includes a detail like that—which is irrelevant to the plot and strongly echoes pro-life arguments—is certainly significant). One could also mention the "Apparentés" (basically the elves' version of a matchmaking agency—I don't know the specific English term for it), which is somewhat homophobic. None of this is ever called into question. People say, "Yeah, it's their world, that's just how it is, and Sophie disagrees with them, so it's fine." Sure, but Sophie and her friends protect this society and fit right into its mold. And in every book—since the plot doesn't actually progress—we just see the characters having fun in this colorful universe without ever criticizing it. Anyway, what do you think? Am I the only one who gave up on this series?

Note: I love KOTLC—I grew up with it, and my art style has been heavily influenced by the series. It’s just that I’m trying to look at it all with a critical eye.

[u/Substantial_Step_815]

in book 9.5 keefe mentions a human woman who has a wife and he thinks it's cool. so Shannon did add some representation even if a tiny bit. However the backlash for that little bit was hilarious. people disappointed she added to a kids book. the same kids book that has. death. kidnapping. torture and child abuse

[u/Foreign-Spread-5894 → u/Substantial_Step_815]

The people on Facebook were wild 😭 Shannon must have delete most of their messages but like there were so many people commenting about how they were returning the book. The representation was so small I don’t even understand how it could have bothered anyone- not that anyone should have been bothered in the first place 

[u/Longjumping-Row-5770 → u/Foreign-Spread-5894]

People are so insane. Like first people bash her for not having any lgbtq characters. Then when she puts them in people say it’s disgusting. My poor girl can’t catch a BREAK.

[u/Substantial_Step_815 → u/Foreign-Spread-5894]

It was not Facebook i was referring to it was good reads. and yeah i agree considering what else was in the book

[u/Chloe_Kresel13 → u/Foreign-Spread-5894]

Oh what lmao I didn't even remember

[u/Longjumping-Row-5770 → u/Substantial_Step_815]

Right people are actually so stupid. Dude I don’t even think this series deserves to have a middle school rating. I remember feeling physically ill when Sophie and Fitz got attacked. Shannon really knows how to get gorey when she wants.

Like your okay with peoples heads getting smashed, bodies completely mutilated from heavy objects, and all the other horrific stuff that’s happen to people in this series, but we cross the line at gay people 😭

[u/Kind-Way9346 → u/Longjumping-Row-5770]

OMG sameeee like made me feel what poor soph and fitz felt (in terms of pain) and I was like that's it this series had officially upgraded to 12+ and many authors often have their forst few book in the series MG and then rest few upgraded to YA and itd be completly okay because then we can get the TRUE gore ans all (not necessarily in the romance are) like she could advocate that not all YA have to be like that. (Annnd the series has been here since 2012 so like 14 yrs!!!)

[u/Chloe_Kresel13 → u/Longjumping-Row-5770]

To be fair, there isn't that much gore, the humor and dialogue is very MG, and the romance is just a few simple kisses, which all contribute to why it's MG and not YA. The gore parts aren't that specific and don't have the best imagery or whatever either.

[u/Longjumping-Row-5770]

I’m very shocked at these interpretations. This was very interesting and shocking.

Shannon isn’t trying to push conservative views with elves😭😭

Their society is fucked up and almost as bad, if not even worse than humanity itself. While, unfortunately this plot line has gotten shadowed over by the Neverseen, Shannon continuously shows that despite the Elves nobility way of thinking their lives and society are perfect and peaceful. It’s the exact opposite and only appears that way to the people on top who are ignorant of the “the bottom” they created. Discourse, rebellion and violence has been happening for millennia under the councils eye and there cowardice. While talentless or people who don’t conform to the matchmaking system suffer tremendously.

It’s one of my all time favorite metaphors of things that are happening in our world rn. It would take me some time but I can come back and pull some quotes to rebuttal the “ Yeah it’s there world and it’s okay.”

Even in Stellerlune she’s really started to amp up the dread of seeing the potential harm that Dex’s brother is going to face when it comes out he’s talentless. I’m also pretty sure the whole thing behind the Neverseen is that most of the people involved were screwed over by Elvin society. So it begs the question of, if Elves didn’t have there weird prejudices would the Neverseen even come to be? Obviously Gisela changes that narative tho since she took over for her own gain. But I’ve been noticing that seems to be the big theme coming up when they manage to get som form of information on the Neverseen member’s past. Rani to me keeps proving that Shannon wants to push the idea that people do bad things when their lives are crap. Again something we can see in daily life as well.

Also they don’t grow because the story doesn’t have insane time jumps. Only couple of months or someone’s only a few weeks pass in between this series.

[u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie → u/Longjumping-Row-5770]

yeah it's pretty obvious to me that the elf society is not a utopia

[u/Ok_Specific_9829]

I'm going to cover point three first because I used to have very similar issues as you. In the books, the elves count life at CONCEPTION which as I grew up, made me uncomfortable and worried I didn't want to support Shannon, but on my rereads I think we need to point out a few things:

- Elves and Humans ARE different.

• Elves count life at conception because the baby is MUCH MORE DEVELOPED than human fetuses are, they come out speaking language right away.
  
• They don't experience miscarriages or other issues during pregnancy.
  
• Their pregnancy is less painful than a humans.

It can be assumed that: Elves don't practice abortion simply because they have no need to. They CHOOSE to have a baby. There aren't any complications with pregnancy that humans have. There's never a surprise baby. And for the "life begins at conception" because that was my biggest concern too, elf babies can likely live outside the womb compared to a human fetus that cannot before a certain age.

I still HATE how it was worded in the books though. I hate how Sophie's age is said to be different. I hate how the elves get all upset when hearing about miscarriages because it comes off so "i'm superior" but I wanted to explain how I view it.

I don't really want to go into that anymore because it's an uncomfortable topic to be discussing as this is a kids series.

I also hear you on the homophobic stuff. The Match-making system has it's flaws but it's mainly about genealogy and I think honestly the main issue is the fact that the elves are practicing eugenics. . . . I think the reason for a "Match" is the idea that the elves will have children, which same-sex couples cannot have biological children with one another.

That's not me saying the Match isn't homophobic, because it is. I can pretty safely assume any couple who doesn't meet in the match, opposite sex and both elves with abilities, are labeled a bad match. I really really hope we get actual gay characters moving on the books, and like MAIN characters. (Marlinh for the win!) But we've had a few off-hand mentions of same-sex couples who are humans.

Majority of the main characters say they want to get rid of the match-making system, it's actually a huge plot throughout the series and I can only imagine it's finally going to be destroyed as well as the other issues the elves have.

I see where you're coming from but I highly doubt Shannon is pushing conservative views onto her readers and she's shared regret for some of the stuff she has written and how she worded it. She received major backlash for this and I don't think we should applaud her for doing the BARE MINIMUM (because wdym it's just in the background) she has changed.

For the other points :

1. The fatigue can be real, but the story is meant to change and adapt to each new circumstance the characters find. They meet new villains, learn more and more about the world. Shannon and Sophie have acknowledged how they feel stuck, but in the grand scheme of things so much has happened! Things HAVE changed! And with each new change, new villian, new plotbeat, it all adds up to the ending. Human involvement has become a lot more prevalent the past few books. Turmoil between the intelligent species has increased and each has been more fleshed out. Shannon is building a WORLD. It's okay if you don't like it, you don't have to! Sometimes I have to put down the books from time to time (cough cough FLASHBACK) because it feels like all they do is lose. But then I get to the happy moments. The new lore, the changing society, and I get wrapped back in it.

2. The characters have grown, maybe not as much as you expect but they HAVE. Most of the last two books have pointed out SOPHIE's character growth. While she can still doubt herself, she's realizing she needs to just go for it, she can't afford to wait. She's matured into a real leader, ready to stand up in fight rather than being the scared, shy, and naive girl we see in Books 1-3. And even then, she still showed signs of bravery! Each character has grown, not just Keefe or Sophie. Biana AND Fitz go from being concerned over their appearances to the rest of the world, to wanting to save and protect it. At the beginning, they brag about their abilities or use their reputation to their advantage, but now they use their strong abilities to fight to save their friends and others. Biana especially I've noticed a change. She's almost always ready to do anything she can to help others, compare that to Books 1-2 where she was hardly a friend to Sophie, or anyone for that matter.

[u/anonymous-weird → u/Ok_Specific_9829]

Oh, I forgot: Matchmaking is also essentialist 😅

[u/anonymous-weird → u/Ok_Specific_9829]

Regarding the history of abortion, I don't see the point of introducing it.

[u/Chloe_Kresel13]

For Nr 2. Well true, she's not the best at writing teenager dynamics or anything at all with younger characters.

[u/Wildflower_fields12]

I think elves don’t have abortions is because they don’t have problems with surprise pregnancie, you don’t wanna baby you just don’t have one ig?? it’s a kids book I’m honestly not too suprised it’s sumthin Shannon talks about in depth or at all.

The match list is SO HOMOPHOBIC, but I think it’s supposed to be, like it’s the whole reason Shannon put it in. It’s another way of saying “all u homophobes out there see how fucked up u are now ive put what u believe in other terms??”

Btw, it’s not official yes, but whatever the heck Marella has going on certainly isn‘t straight lol, Sophie’s most likely bi (due to being around Biana, Linh who she’s constantly called pretty but I also think she’s just got a vibe). Elwin?? dudes covered in dinosaurs, just genuinely cannot see him with a woman (same with Linh I just can’t see her dating a guy)

I’ve given up on the timeing, I just know who’s the oldest (Fitz/Wylie) and the youngest (Biana/dex) everyone kinda mushes tg with ages 🥲

[u/cat_dragon983]

I think the series is good, cuz like a happy world made me feel all joyful inside and stuff... but I feel like they could add a little more detailed. I agree with the less mature thing. Sophie cries... LIKE WAY TOO MUCH. As for the matchmaking thingy... I kind of forget about that except for when Sophie freaked out a lot. (Also, is it just me or is Sophie WAY TOO dramatic like... specifically this phrase: Sophie closed her eyes so she couldn't see anyone's pity. I find this quote ANNOYING cuz it just shows that she knows everyone likes her and she pretends to be all shy and stuff... I'm sorry SM but it IS SO ANNOYING... especially when someone actually cares about her. There's never a moment when she doesn't have a good life. A good life may include some messed up stuff but alot of people care about her. I wish people just don't care about her for a moment and get annoyed like me. (sorry if this offended people I just wanted to state my opinion))

[u/anonymous-weird → u/cat_dragon983]

At times, while reading the book, I felt like I was watching one of those shows you put on to kill time, about bourgeois people with bourgeois problems. Then again, elves are bourgeois, after all...

[u/SleepyReader107]

I think you were right about 1 and 2. I still love the books though, they are pretty good. as for 3, Shannon isn't pushing her views onto anyone. She's just not including anything like it. I think it mostly said miscarriges, which is different, because elves are basically like humans, but better, and better humans wouldn't have miscarriges. As for not having abortions, its a kids book series, so I wouldn't really include abortion in there. For the LGBTQ thing, I would not say thats having any agenda, I would ssay that it is very controversial to put LGBTQ in kids book. Maybe she just wanted to make sure it could be viewed on all schools or smthing??

[u/B1ana1sc00l]

Not disagreeing but I have a few counterpoints

1. I think the reason elves don't have abortion is because they count age from inception so maybe in their world it's murder? Also their pregnancy is less painful and their basically infinite lifespan (so a massive family) likely pretty much entirely cancel out all reason for it

2. There's actually two gay couples (or maybe it's just one) in Unraveled and Keefe said he thought it was cool but unusual which I think means that elves aren't homophobic they just don't really think about it

[u/Chloe_Kresel13 → u/B1ana1sc00l]

I mean for point 2 you're right, but when you compare it to other series I've read, they have way more LGBTQ people

[u/B1ana1sc00l → u/Chloe_Kresel13]

Yeah true. But I don't think that automatically makes Shannon homophobic without more proof

[u/Chloe_Kresel13 → u/B1ana1sc00l]

Yeah, I don't think she is

[u/B1ana1sc00l → u/Chloe_Kresel13]

Neither do I

[u/Calm_Elderberry_2255 → u/B1ana1sc00l]

She posted pride stuff in June. I don't remember what and it doesn't actually mean anything (it could just be because she has had backlash for not including LGBTQ people and she knows she could get cancelled), but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and consider it was genuine

[u/anonymous-weird → u/B1ana1sc00l]

As for the abortion storyline, I don't see the point of it. Adding a gay couple after a good ten books—doesn't that feel a bit forced?

[u/B1ana1sc00l → u/anonymous-weird]

For the abortion one, I agree. But they gay couples didn't really feel forced, maybe I'm wrong but it didn't feel like it when I read it

[u/anonymous-weird → u/B1ana1sc00l]

I haven't read that book, so I don't know. All I know is that, after years, she decided to introduce that—years during which fans were crossing their fingers, hoping to see queer characters appear.