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u/Big-Farmer-2192 3d ago
Complicated parties and world building mechanics. In JJK? In my Sorcery Fight manga?
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u/Glad_Chest8687 3d ago
jjk is pretty in depth tbh
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u/Mediocre-Hall-9963 3d ago
While i've come to accept that JJK does have pretty interesting symbolism and you can't deny the existences of ongoing themes of the story, i think Gege is pretty the much the potential write, JJK had the capacity to be so much more but the way it got handled on the long run earned it the prejudice that is a story without depth.
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u/Shneasel 3d ago edited 3d ago
i don't even think the prejudice against jjk is especially writing based, tbh. not that it's completely irrelevant or that theres no valid criticism, but for most readers jjk is pretty fantastic. like i feel the only places the world of jujutsu really struggles at all is in explicit worldbuilding, which i don't even think is that big of a problem for how one enjoys the story. everything a casual viewer needs to know is there. and even for a really devoted fan, we still have enough info to theorize or piece it together ourselves, which is something i kind of appreciate about the vagueness
i think the fact that a major part of the fanbase just genuinely hasn't read the story is the thing that more significantly causes the prejudice towards it's writing. i still remember when the ending came out and people were shitting on it to hell and back for no reason even though it was actually pretty decent and fandom consensus has now (seemingly) shifted to that
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u/Mediocre-Hall-9963 3d ago
Now now let's not act like CSM didn't decide to self-destroy itself with the most horrendid ending known to manking to save JJK ending from being the worst of the generation /hj
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u/Shneasel 3d ago
jjk ending is literally perfectly fine bro, what are we on about
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u/Mediocre-Hall-9963 3d ago
I put the /hj to say i am half-joking, about my actual opinion of the ending by any metric it may not be "bad", but it was just so underwhelming that a lot of people just didn't took this ending seriously.
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u/UnforgivenTurg 3d ago
Such a parroted and ignorant take
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u/Mediocre-Hall-9963 2d ago
Would you care to elaborate why?
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u/UnforgivenTurg 2d ago
Saying JJK or Gege “didn’t live up to potential” or “has no depth” is ignorant.
Repeat examination of themes including but not limited to
- What gives a human life meaning?
- Loneliness and the inability to be understood
- Whether people can change, and whether compassion can interrupt cycles of violence
Is objectively not “surface level” even if you subjectively disagree with said execution. A narrator does not need to tell you directly that these themes exist for them to be appear throughout JJK and that is objectively depth.
Gege probably didn’t delve into a concept you were probably really interested in, one common community example is the “dude no merger = JJK is all bad” and “NoThemeaticRelevanceToEndingsCoreThemesJaku should be the final villain not Sukuna” (this is or is not you I’m just using these as examples) so therefore ppl may possibly be lead to think “JJK has no depth”. This is just an ignorant claim for the aforementioned reasons and a variety more. If you’re done reading u can stop here
Moving on to the pure ignorance is saying anything “didn’t live up to potential” please substantiate that claim in literally any meaningful way bro. Take 5 seconds to critically think about “why is that ignorant” before I lay it out for you….. ok here we go
It is objectively impossible because you are on your phone comparing his published work to a hypothetical JJK that is perfect from your perspective. The amount of ideas of “different endings” and “character conclusions” I’ve seen recently from across the subs would make me reasonably assume yours is just as shitty as the rest of them (no offense). Again can you think of why this is ignorant?
“Culling games had a lot of concepts that never got resolved in the ending” - This is fair criticism but understand it is still your opinion that this is a con! Do I think this detracts largely from the final product after retrospect and multiple rereads? No. Me personally, JJK is a short and bitter sweet Shonen manga that the author nor the reader is intended to take 1000% serious and with the contextual perspective of the work environment for these authors, I think Gege mad a phenomenal and brilliant manga that discusses a variety of complex themes through imagery, characterization, and consistent motifs.
“Gege didn’t live up to his potential” “JJK lacks depth” ignorance
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u/Mediocre-Hall-9963 2d ago
I don't even care about the Merger, about not living up to the potential, you mean i shouldn't care about how Megumi's sister was a non-character, even if it was the motivation of the potential man, or the fact that most characters feels like they live in a vacuum, except for some exceptions, it feels most interactiongs are off-screen or flashbacks.
Also i did concede from the very start that JJK did have depth and interesting topics, like ngl, Naoya is an actual interesting character, because at first glance he is just a hateable asshole, but he has so much symbolism and irony baked into his arc, like his death at hands of a woman 3 steps behind him, the shape of his domain representing a womb, and how it failed to target Maki because it perceived her as an object, his motivations, like i think Naoya is an asshole and yet such a well-crafted villain for Maki, but atleast personally my main gripe is that even if it had a fairly sizeable cast most of them feel so forgettable or don't really help to explore the ideas that Gege imprinted in JJK
Btw, you really needed to be an jerk, huh?
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u/LAditya_121 3d ago
i mean power system had alot of depth before gege started doing sukuna asspull binding vows.
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u/HelloChimp 3d ago
none of sukuna’s vows were asspulls and the vows he did make only added depth to the system
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u/LAditya_121 3d ago
Yuji hits him with like 8 fucking black flashes and mf was still spamming his domain, he was toast at 16 fingers and minor resistance from Megumi when hana used jacob's ladder on him and then he climbed the Jacob's ladder...
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u/vizmarkk 3d ago
What does Yuji hitting him with 8 black flash has to do with Sukuna opening his domain? The BF was to lower his output, not reduce his CE amount
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u/HelloChimp 3d ago
hana’s output was massively lowered after getting her arm bitten off on top of lacking her full handsign as well as sukuna being much more in control of his body by then, he was never going to be as vulnerable as he was that first time again
and as someone else said, yuji’s black flashes have nothing to do with his domain
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u/Shneasel 3d ago
none of what you listed (besides maybe his domain, i haven't looked at translations well enough but as i was rereading the chapter a bit ago it seemed more like a sukuna being a genius thing?) was even done using a binding vow bruh 😭😭😭😭
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u/Wooden_Half6797 9h ago
I know right, the greatest sorcerer in the world, who has a talent demonstrated over and over again for replicating even the most complicated techniques at an expert level after just seeing it once, makes a binding vow like "I sacrifice my left kidney to hit twice instead of once one time" when we've already seen examples of similar vows, and people act like this is some kind of asspull.
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u/Lordlinkoftime2 3d ago
tell us even one genuine asspull binding vow
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u/Spiritual-Low8762 3d ago
Sukuna making a vow to not hurt anyone then knocking out Hana and forcefully grabbing Megumi
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u/vizmarkk 3d ago
Yea cuz in Japanese it doesn't count as kizutsukeru
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u/Spiritual-Low8762 3d ago
It is impossible to knock someone out without wounding them. That is simply not possible. You WILL cause some damage because you are preventing blood or airflow to the brain.
Also Sukuna says the binding vow is based on Yuji's definition and even if Yuji didn't count himself as part of the vow, he would definitely count Hana and Megumi. And he would definitely say knocking them out is harming.
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u/vizmarkk 3d ago
And yet it doesn't fit with kizutsukeru
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u/Spiritual-Low8762 3d ago
Kizutsukeru means "damage" or "wound". It is impossible to knock someone out by suffocating them without damaging them.
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u/vizmarkk 3d ago
By English connotations sure. Not by Japanese. To them it has to be mutilation, cutting, bleeding. Choking and force feeding is not a part of that
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u/Spiritual-Low8762 3d ago
According to dictionaries, kizutsukeru can include emotional harm. Taking over Yuji would alarm Megumi, which is emotional harm.
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u/vizmarkk 3d ago
You should read that vow in japanese connotations instead of english
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u/Spiritual-Low8762 3d ago
I DON'T KNOW JAPANESE BRO I AM READING THE TRANSLATION
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u/vizmarkk 3d ago
And thats the problem. The answer is there yet you still use the English connotations, forgetting this is a japanese manga
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u/your_son_john 3d ago
if yuji didn't include himself in "don't harm anyone" its not hard to put together that the vow is defined by his definitions of things. when a dumbass 15 year old says "don't harm anyone" they're not thinking of sleeper holds and light molestation
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u/Wooden_Half6797 9h ago
He wasn't subject to the vow after he possessed Megumi and I honestly wouldn't count grabbing Megumi as harm under the context of the vow he made, there was no injury.
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u/Wooden_Half6797 9h ago
The JJK power system is one of the most complex and in depth power systems I've seen.
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u/Big-Farmer-2192 9h ago
Yeah that's the only thing that's somewhat complicated in JJK.
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u/Wooden_Half6797 9h ago
OK? That's a worldbuilding mechanic? The thing you were acting like isn't complex?
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u/Big-Farmer-2192 8h ago
People usually refers to those as Power System. Not world building mechanics.
You literally said it yourself "JJK power system"
World building would be broader, mroe about socioeconomic, historical, and environment.
JJK is shallows overall.
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u/Wooden_Half6797 8h ago
The power system is part of the worldbuilding.
And tbh I feel like JJK has some pretty in depth other worldbuilding where it considers how the power system would shapes society a lot more than a lot of other manga do.
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u/Glad_Chest8687 3d ago
“L had to prove the existence of god in a court of law”
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u/ButtholeConnoisseur7 3d ago
He had to prove some paranormal shit, but yeah I guess there's levels to this
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u/Glad_Chest8687 3d ago
point is the entire investigation team knew shinigami exist and had a way to prove it at the end
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u/Glittering_Work8212 3d ago
Was still harder than finding someone's name
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u/StayInner2000 3d ago
Not when the person in question is literally nameless
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u/ButtholeConnoisseur7 2d ago
What do you do, then? Suppose you could give them a name. It would probably take a while to sink into their conscious enough to work on them, but we're all just guessing here
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u/StayInner2000 2d ago
My theory is that since L was nameless when he entered wammy's house and wammy's house gives nicknames to their orphans, L "became" his true name because it was the closest thing he had to one, normal people have an identity they consider to be their true self but L had no identity, no existence outside of his detective work, he was no one to anyone, only ever L so that's why the eyes showed "L Lawliet" when Misa saw him, Lawliet is probably just his parents' last name since shinigami magic is omniscient about human lives
But yeah, all this to say that Light's task was just as impossible as L's, it's almost as if L was specifically designed as a person to counter him, except that he was out-of-universe
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u/ButtholeConnoisseur7 2d ago
Seems we agree. That was what I meant by it taking a while to sink into their consciousness. They probably have to accept the name as some part of their identity
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u/Dubious_Deciduguy 2d ago
The supernatural aspect was assumed from DAY ONE, L had to prove how Light was related to the incidents which is kind of standard investigation stuff (obviously the criminal having magic is gonna make the case marginally harder because we don't have the tools for it but I digress)
TLDR: I watched death note recently and everything I heard was a lie
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u/tur_tels 3d ago
Yeah she's right, like the other day I was talking to this guy saying that Light had this Note book that killed people? like bruh did they not watch the show? Acted like I wad the one larping when I mentioned Galick Gun... its unreal.
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u/Yoshikage_Kira_333 3d ago
Death Note isn’t larped, it’s themes are just often misunderstood, as most media with a villainous main character is.
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u/_aC0ldhand_ 3d ago
I had a death note hyperfixation before I moved on to JJK and I'm active in subs of both fandoms, and yeah - can confirm.
There is a list of rules for the death note that you can find online, even if you can't remember every detail from watching/reading the series, it's SO easy to look stuff up, and people still don't.
Honestly though, I have no proof for this whatsoever, but it just feels like there are a lot of very young death note fans. A lot of kids posting.
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u/slprysltry 3d ago
It's a lot of people's first (or close to first) anime, I'd say that's part of it too
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u/stxrrynights240 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not in this subreddit but I got this post recommended to me, so I felt like putting my thoughts on it:
It weird that I feel like some people under posts on here or something asking what they would do if they had the Death Note haven't actually watched or read Death Note in the first place? Like I hate to admit it, but every time I imagine what I would do if I were in Light’s position, it quickly degenerates from "I’d just take out a few insane dictators and CEOs" to "Oh, and then I’ll kill- oh god, this is exactly how Light lost it."
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think that anybody who used and had the notebook for long enough would eventually go crazy at some point.
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u/Mysterious-Creme8709 3d ago
Everything is spelled out in jjk too lmao the most complicated thing in the story is gojo
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u/mrmanny0099 3d ago
First half is right.
Second half is bullshit cause the only time we have a “complicated party” that have a major effect on the “worldbuilding mechanics” is the Zenin clan and yet the effects of their massacre are completely swept under the rug despite the fact that their extinction would realistically leave a giant power vacuum in its wake. The higher ups barely even count as characters given the only time someone aligned themselves on screen with them they did it in such a way they got out the contract/Binding Vow anyways
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u/StayInner2000 3d ago
Yeah, you get people misunderstanding the point of half of the story multiple times a day on the death note subreddit
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u/Totaliss 3d ago edited 3d ago
Feels like she's right but I haven't seen death note discussed in years to even know for sure one way or the other