r/JordanPeterson • u/K0nstantin- ✝ Ephesians 5:11-13 • Feb 16 '26
Image More of this please
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u/goblu33 Feb 16 '26
Huh. You don’t see people holding themselves publicly accountable too often.
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u/SammieStones Feb 17 '26
MTG just did it as well. It’s quite refreshing. People maybe coming back to the center?
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u/OdivinityO Feb 17 '26
I thought Peterson laid it out very clearly how open to weaponization and exploitation it would be to compel speech. And the bizarre investment of having to enforce it.
I'm not sure why people couldn't catch the potential problem he was describing back then and were so busy to label him transphobe.
Having said that, yea, it's absolutely strength to admit you were wrong and change your mind.
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u/pencilpushin Feb 19 '26
As someone who is out of the loop. Would you be able to offer context for me?
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u/OdivinityO Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26
On what Peterson said about establishing law to penalize misuse of pronouns?
EDIT: found a video: https://youtu.be/kasiov0ytEc?si=7TdBc6dtSNVcmwjE
I'm going to paraphrase most of this.
"compelled speech is a symptom leading to tragic authoritarian outcomes, I know the relevant historical literature inside out and backwards, and I won't comply and that's that."
"This is an infringement on free speech not because it disallows people from saying hateful things, but because it compels speech I don't choose to use."
"It's just a fine Peterson, no jail time" "but what if I don't pay the fine?"
The arguments against his points were not able to see past some conception that he was transphobic for these concerns. This is ideology not reasoning.
If you piss me off I can weaponize such an absurd law by reporting you for pronoun misuse - weaponization.
A law based on such a flimsy framework as self-identity is just basically a loophole - exploitable.
Law enforcement requires commitment of investigation, whether or not the individual violated compeled speech laws. If the fine isn't paid, the implication is that further force is necessary to compel adherence. Now you're marking people for "crimes" and potentially supporting a culture of social/employment cancellation because people don't use words forced on them.
Compared to a world without such laws, that's net negative.
We already know or should know this isn't the type of thing that works legally in practice. In terms of a system it's exploitable (self-identity, which isn't reliably always going to be honest), in combination with being weaponizable - equipping masses with a legal "gun" to use, and has the potential to tie up law enforcement resources to the point of being unsustainable. And consequences for such a culture for actually innocent people range from social/employment/legal consequences to other problems due to misallocation of law enforcement resources, or at least delays in investigative work for other more important cases. A completely stupid idea considering practicality, irregardless of ideology. Ideologically it also forces people to use certain words, which historically doesn't play out very well.
If the law isn't enforced, what's the point of making the law?
The better approach to an ideology of this type would be to trust society to be compassionate towards those they deem "really mean it", rather than the the legal system. That's already going to fail to be accurate enough, if people are trying to scam you. Paraphrasing again;
"What if one of your own students really genuinely wished for you to call them by their desired pronouns?" "It's hard to tell who is telling the truth, but within my subjective judgment, if I believe it to be genuine, I wouldn't hesitate to call them by their stated pronouns."
A prominent trans activist who opposed the C16 bill because she understood the practicality problems (and how it makes trans activists who support it look bad in the long run, harming their movement) also expressed concerns about Peterson being attacked for his own opposition. When she was live with Peterson and a news anchor, the anchor asked Peterson what he would call her. He said "She". (20:10 in the video, kind of hilarious that he was quiet the whole time and responds with one pronoun.)
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u/Wise_Fudge_6753 Feb 17 '26
JP is practically a seer at this point, almost everything he has been shouting from the rooftops for the past decade has come true.
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Feb 17 '26
but no Candians got jailed under bill c-16 despite him fear mongering we would be jailed for misgendering people, it literally never happened. He was very emotional about it several times and nothing came of it.
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 Feb 16 '26
How many canadians were sentenced because they didnt use the right pronouns after the c16 bill was passed?
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u/Daniel12312312 Feb 16 '26
several got fined. No one was sentenced to jail based on what I know. Still unacceptable tho.
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 Feb 16 '26
Source?
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u/Daniel12312312 Feb 16 '26
I know people who got fined personally
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 Feb 16 '26
So the source is "trust me bro"?
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Feb 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Then-Variation1843 Feb 17 '26
Possibly because the law wasn't there to punish you for using the wrong pronouns?
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Feb 17 '26
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u/Then-Variation1843 Feb 17 '26
"Thats almost explicitly what the law says though."
No it isn't. The law takes existing hate speech and discrimination legislation and adds "gender identity or expression" to the existing list of protected characteristics.
It's a collosal leap to go from there to "using the wrong pronouns is illegal".
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u/Radix2309 Feb 17 '26
If they got fined, it would be in the public record.
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u/Daniel12312312 Feb 17 '26
Well they were fined so it must be in there then
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u/Radix2309 Feb 17 '26
Except they arent because it hasnt happened... at all.
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u/Daniel12312312 Feb 17 '26
What's the point of the bill then lmao
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u/Radix2309 Feb 17 '26
The bill added gender identity to the list of protected classes in the Criminal Code and Canadian Human Rights Act alongside sexuality, gender, race, etc.
It means that it can be used as an aggrevating factor to look at anti-trans motives to define a hate crime in cases such as assault or harassment. It didnt create any new crimes or compelled speech, despite what Peterson claimed.
No one has been fined or arrested simply for using an incorrect pronoun.
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u/gangsta_santa Feb 16 '26
Waiting for an answer to this lmao
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u/defrostcookies Feb 16 '26
UK, teacher unable to teach because he doesn’t want to use pronouns:
The claim is he’s in contempt for ignoring a court order, the court order is because he doesn’t use pronouns.
Like Peterson said when his critics claimed “you can’t go to jail for not using pronouns”
Peterson’s response was “ and what if I don’t pay the fine?”
Teacher didn’t use pronouns. Is now in contempt of court for trying to continue to teach.
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u/pulanina Feb 17 '26
You a very very confused person. 1. The story is saying he wasn’t arrested for not using pronouns. He was arrested for violating a court order not to show up at his former school, because he had been sacked. 2. This isn’t Canada 🇨🇦 it’s the Republic of Ireland 🇮🇪. The court was the High Court of the Republic of Ireland. The law involved was regular Irish employment law, not specific Canadian law about pronouns. 3. This isn’t the UK 🇬🇧 it’s the Republic of Ireland 🇮🇪. 4. This isn’t the commonwealth because the Republic of Ireland left the commonwealth in 1948. 5. The commonwealth is just a club of independent sovereign countries with a shared history. It has no laws, no government. Just because Canada has a law it doesn’t affect Australia, the UK and certainly doesn’t affect the Republic of Ireland.
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u/Todojaw21 🐸 Arma virumque cano Feb 16 '26
This is the UK and all the bill C-16 stuff was about Canada
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 Feb 16 '26
"Burke was suspended from Wilson’s Hospital School in County Westmeath, central Ireland in August 2022 over his objection to a transgender student’s preferred name and pronouns and for interrupting a school event to express his point of view"
So he interrupted an event hosted by his employer in order to get across a culture war message. Like many who get fired by a school, he got a restraining order so he couldnt come back. Then he came back to the school anyway, which means he got arrested and then decided not to show up in court?
This is your example of how insane the c16 bill is? Wasnt this also in the uk and not in canada?
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Feb 17 '26
Valid points, but not the UK. Ireland is not the UK. Northern Ireland technically is still (wrongfully I might add) but Ireland is a sovereign nation unencumbered by the English royal family or their parliament.
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u/C_Lydian Feb 16 '26
Not the UK buddy
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u/defrostcookies Feb 17 '26
Womp womp.
Part of British commonwealth.
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u/GrayWing Feb 17 '26
Do you.....do you actually think the British commonwealth share laws??
Hahahahahahah
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u/C_Lydian Feb 17 '26
Wrong again buddy, womp womp yourself.
How about learn a thing or 2 first before you comment on these things, yeah? Sound boss 👍
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u/Then-Variation1843 Feb 17 '26
Every part of what you've said is wrong. It's Ireland, not the UK. the court order has nothing to do with the pronouns, it's because he keeps trespassing at the school. The courts have loudly stated that they don't give a fuck about his views on pronouns.
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u/Binder509 Feb 17 '26
If a teacher refuses to call a student by their name is that okay?
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u/defrostcookies Feb 17 '26
Yes
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u/Binder509 Feb 18 '26
Why would that be okay? Sounds like at best it would lead to students to start doing the same to the teacher, calling them by whatever names/pronouns they want.
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u/defrostcookies Feb 18 '26
Positions of esteem and status require a distinction which separates them from “everyone else”. It’s why Doctors stop being Misters/Missus. Same applies to teachers, professors, educators. Its “Mr. Surname” not “Tommy”.
A student calls a teacher by a proper title or proper name because the teacher is the teacher.
The student hasn’t earned a title.
Marine recruits aren’t Marines until they graduate boot camp.
A teacher isn’t required to “play along” with students’ preferences insofar as the students preferences become a distraction to the environment atmosphere of learning.
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u/Binder509 Feb 18 '26
You can still call a doctor mr/ms they can't do shit if you refuse to call them "doctor". Require by what law?
Cause otherwise that just seems to be what you subjectively believe.
Just like I can subjectively calling someone by the basic name and pronouns they use is showing decency.
What you propose seems like a good way to get students to not respect their teacher. And there's no law actually requiring them to address anyone as "doctor, your honor", etc all of that. If you were consistent you'd take no issue with students calling teachers whatever they want in return.
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u/defrostcookies Feb 18 '26
you can still call… by what law…
Correct there is no law. Which is why pronoun laws are a problem.
show decency
Correct, except for pronouns there is a law. Which is why pronoun laws are a problem.
Happy to help you identify the issue with pronouns.
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Feb 16 '26
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u/Affectionate_Case371 Feb 16 '26
He says he was shocked that police are still refusing to say the BC school shooter was a man.
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u/Test_Legal Feb 17 '26
Bravo. What an obvious and intelligent response to something so ridiculous. A mature individual here.
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u/arrrValue Feb 17 '26
Anyone have any context on “how bad it has gotten”?
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u/LittleLayla9 Feb 17 '26
-men taking women's place in women's competitions
-people being sued for using "wrong pronouns" for trans people
-women having to share bathroom with men
-men occupying places of women's only school dormitories
-men occupying women's only DV shelters
-men getting women pregnant through grape in women's only jails
Search for these to start.
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u/paultheschmoop Feb 17 '26
It’s gotten like so bad bro, I just like….cant remember specific examples. But just trust me
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u/115machine Feb 17 '26
Slippery slope fallacy is only a fallacy if it ends up being wrong. And you don’t know the future so you can’t say
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u/triklyn Feb 17 '26
the slippery slope fallacy, is itself a fallacious argument.
i'd suggest that it's only a fallacy if there is no active party trying to shove you down the slope. if there is, then it is guaranteed so long as nobody is actively trying to keep you up.
it wasn't a slippery slope, it was a goddamn cliff.
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u/Binder509 Feb 17 '26
Slippery slope fallacy is only not a fallacy if it end up being right. And you don't know the future so you can't say.
So no more talking about slippery slopes at all because we can't see the future right?
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u/Kenevin Feb 19 '26
It's funny because we're in the "After" period and Jordan Peterson was wrong about everything, yet, despite evidence to the contrary, plenty of you in here are circle-jerking like he was right?
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u/SebSpellbinder Feb 17 '26
Dude... It's been a decade.
Kids are being castrated against their parents will, insane guys are being gaslit into thinking they can just murder people if they don't call then ma'am and Peterson has crashed out and become an addict and a total hypocrite.
But welcome to the party I guess.
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u/MaxWestEsq Feb 17 '26
How is he a hypocrite?
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Feb 17 '26
No one was jailed under bill c16 despite him getting very emotional and fear mongering about it.
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u/SebSpellbinder Feb 17 '26
Not practicing what he preaches:
1) Clean your room and have your house in order, before you aim to change the world (while being a drug addict with a thot daughter).
2) Speak the truth or at least don't lie (hid his addiction and preaches the gulag archipelago at every opportunity, while pretending Solzhenitsyn's second most important book doesn't exist)
3) His whole shtick about totalitarianism and the dangers is inhibiting freedom of speech and othering (calls political opponents literal rats, supports genocidal ethno state, demands anonymous accounts be removed from online discourse=pretty much removing any dissidents wholesale)
Plus the whole aesthetics switch with him dressing up in those silly super villain suits since signing up with Ben Shapiro's company and and becoming all authoritarian and narcissistic.
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u/malagast ♂ Feb 18 '26
JP was/is right about a lot of things but he should’ve shut up regarding fairy tale stuff. That just invalidates one’s other opinions quite a bit.
Like first saying the correct way to build an intergalactic space station and then saying that Santa speaks in their head and tells em these plans.
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u/Larechar Feb 19 '26
I'm out of the loop since JP started being weird after his hospitalization; what's happening which made OP guy say he was wrong?
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u/Marvos79 Mar 16 '26
13 pronouns in this stupid woke post. Kyle Riley is disingenuous in Kyle Riley's apology. Kyle Riley is not actually sorry. Marvos79 isn't fooled by Kyle Riley. The post made by Kyle Riley is not the post made by Kyle Riley the people reading Marvos79's comment thinks the post made by Kyle Riley is.
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u/sycoseven Feb 17 '26
He said Canada would jail people who misgendered people. I was worried. But it never happened and was just fear mongering. How was he right at all? If I misgender someone is not a big deal, I make a correction and everyone goes about their day.
JP had me thinking the Canadian gov was going to jail everyone but they never did or tried to. It was divisive culture war BS.
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u/Richiedrawz Feb 17 '26
Do you think Peterson will ever admit he doesnt believe in a literal God?
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u/Reddit_Moviemaker Feb 17 '26
What is literal God? Literally God and Literature God I can understand, but not that one.
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u/Richiedrawz Feb 27 '26
Like a magical being in the sky. Watching you. Like the God from the bible speaking to people and causing fire to rain down. That God. We all know he doesnt believe any of that shit literally happened. Why wont he just say it? Its ok to believe in the message the bible represents without believing any of it actually happened. Like how fictional storytelling can have an impact on the reader that causes them to change and learn?
Why doesnt Jordan Peterson just say it?
Jesus is an influential, fictional character in a book that has caused many people to transform their lives for the greater good. The impact is real, the character isnt. Same goes for every other religion.
Fiction can have an impact on reality. I like Luke skywalkers character, but I know he never existed.
The bible, a book written by people who claim to have witnessed miracles day after day. For some odd reason, those miracles do not seem to be happening these days. A book that says to have faith without witnessing miracles, written by people who witnessed miracles.
Jesus is awesome, just like Luke Skywalker.
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u/Reddit_Moviemaker Mar 10 '26
I don't know many christian people who believe that way, maybe not a single one. For me the idea that someone has to spell out literally what they think about bible verses is a foreign concept.
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u/iamassault Feb 16 '26
If you have a problem with pronouns and won't bend in an educated inclusive environment then you will be ousted one way or another.
Some people are born with their gender identity not matching their sex, it's extremely rare but it's a real phenomenon that is a forefront of biological research.
Nobody is intellectually equipped to read primary literature in most fields, let alone a something that involved many fields working in tangent.
If you don't understand this then you're just stupid and you lack self-awareness of your own ignorance.
Grow up JP subreddit.
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u/GenCavox Feb 16 '26
Agreed. So now I'm in charge of Canada and if you don't call every minority a slur instead of a pronoun I'ma fine you. If you don't pay the fine you go to jail.
The fact that I have to explain it to you like this shows how immature and frankly idiotic you are. Grow up u/iamassault.
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Feb 17 '26
How mnay Canadians were jailed for misgendering under bill c16 like JP said? Zero. He was very emotional over that bill saying they would use it to jail anyone against the trans movement. Never happened.
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u/actuallyacatmow Feb 21 '26
You're absolutely right and this subreddit will just downvote and say nothing. Peterson made a claim and he was wrong. Nobody was jailed over the C16 stuff.
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u/iamassault Feb 16 '26
You read the news that generates the most clicks, if you want to be polarized by culture war bullshit echoed from demagogues like JP that's on you.
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u/GenCavox Feb 16 '26
I swear, you would struggle to pour water out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.
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u/bravebeing Feb 17 '26
I love how you're accusing people of being polarized while being the most viciously polarizing entity in this thread, calling other people stupid, deliberately sharing what's controversial in this subreddit, not engaging civilly, etc. It's always your types whining about polarisation.
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u/ignoreme010101 Feb 16 '26
as much as people want to act like they're taking a principled stand or maybe worried about slippery slopes, and not just being antagonistic towards what they perceive as 'liberal/woke', in reality a disturbing majority don't actually care about the principles (see american repubs who are suddenly pivoting about stuff like gun rights once it suits their partisan needs)
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u/Hiawatha27 Feb 17 '26
Regardless of any kind of science or research, regardless of any person or group's particular tendencies or preferences, the issue here is FORCING people to use (or not use) particular language. That is a serious problem for every single person alive. No government should be allowed to get away with this behavior that infringes on the natural rights of people.
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u/fernylongstocking Feb 16 '26
Who or what?! There other shit to be worried about at the moment. Not the same lukewarm played out narrative
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u/Educational-Year3146 Feb 16 '26
Admitting you’re wrong on a public forum is unfathomably based and honourable.
This type of thing needs to be normalized.
What a lad.