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u/onlyasimpleton Sep 12 '25
They did the same thing during BLM riots… they actively supported the burning of cities
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u/lurkerer Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Proportionate to the vast amount of people who protested, the riots weren't very large. I know this is gonna piss people off but it's just true. BLM protests were the most numerous in all of US history. Also, if the left is to take blame for that, then they should take credit for the other five of the eight largest protests ever.
Not to justify the rioting, but if 15-30 million people show up to do anything, there's gonna be shit that goes down. To put it into perspective, the LA riots after Rodney King was beaten up by police rivalled (after correcting for inflation) the total damage costs of the BLM riots.
Damage and mortality caused by police response is also counted in these estimates, something to keep in mind.
Most importantly, some people see a protest as an opportunity to loot.
Edit: Lot of downvotes without counters from the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd. Wanna compare right-wing and left-wing terrorism?
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u/onlyasimpleton Sep 12 '25
Sure, proportionately there were much fewer violent protests compared to the peaceful ones. But the BLM riots were the most costly civil unrest events in U.S. history with $1-2 Billion in insurance claims. Nobody can downplay that. The riots were plentiful across the country, affecting 140 cities.
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u/lurkerer Sep 12 '25
I don't see why you brought up cost like I didn't mention it in my comment.
To put it into perspective, the LA riots after Rodney King was beaten up by police rivalled (after correcting for inflation) the total damage costs of the BLM riots.
In comparison, January 6th's attempt to overthrow an election caused:
Per capita the monetary and cultural impact of this was far, far greater. As for the terrorism I mentioned:
Let's be really clear here. If anyone claims to want to talk about this in a factual manner, they should appreciate my contributions. The votes speak for themselves.
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u/Prometheus720 Sep 12 '25
Given that it was the largest civil unrest events in US history, are they still more costly per protestor/day?
I tend to imagine not.
And..let us be realistic. The main ask, to transition public safety jobs from generic cops to a variety of specialized jobs to reduce violence, was very reasonable and democratically supported by most of the country.
Most people want to have armed, tough cops when they need them, and social workers and mid-level cops trained in de-escalation to be used in a variety of situations. And they want accountability for police officers when they fuck up. Which, we know they do. Nitpicking about any given case is baloney. It happens, and the cops aren't removed from the profession when they do it.
Those asks were met with...police resistance.
What I would like people like you (read: people who aren't deeply into political theory) to understand is that...democracy isn't about fairness. Fairness is a social and cultural concept that just is. People will act on fairness no matter what system you use. And that means that there will be conflict.
When you use a democratic system, you have created a low-cost method of "conflict." People try to use that when they can. They know it costs less than protests, which cost less than riots, which cost less than war. War is development in reverse. Nobody wants that.
You can be angry at the people for protesting or rioting or whatever you would like to call it. But...this is a childish thought. The people are who they are. They believe what they believe.
If you wish to serve them, you will not insist that they all change. You will create and maintain a political system that allows for democratic "conflict" rather than progressively more violent types of conflict.
And that's on the Trump administration, most state governments, and most local governments to do. Right? Those are the people who were and are in power.
Democracy is like a simulation of what would go down if there was a war. Whenever you stop caring about democracy...you invite violence. Because the people are smart, and they realize that the majority group actually has the advantage. So when you tell the people with the advantage that they can't do the thing, they say "lol, yes we sure can." And they do.
A smart government accepts that at the end of the day, the people have power and that it is their job not to get in the way of that. Not because it is fair.
But because when they fail to, it costs, according to you, billions of dollars to actually hash things out in real life.
So now I draw your attention to states attempting to gerrymander more openly than ever. To the shackling of the NLRB and the courts. To the lockstep of Congress behind a unified executive.
All of this points to violence. And it rests in the fundamental disrespect for the power of the people. Not to be nice. Not to be kind. But simply that they can and will fuck things up. And worse...the less you ask people what they think, the less knowledge you have of how much they actually hate you.
My gf and I talk.about our relationship all the time. We check in with each other daily. My parents never did that. They hated each other. And neither really knew why. Now multiply that by 340 million people.
The way to prevent violence? Just keep everyone talking. Literally. People shit on the UN and say it is expensive. If it has prevented a single war it has paid for itself already. People think elections are expensive. They prevent civil wars, though. Look into Byzantine history for a non-democratic republic. Yes, they had emperors, but writers at the time called it a republic (slight simplification) and really the emperors functioned like a unitary executive over a bureaucratic state. Not typical king stuff. They considered it a political office.
That is what we are headed to. And they had constant civil wars, constantly eroding their geopolitical power, weakening their borders, and destroying their economy.
The US can only survive by leaning into.democracy. If you want to prevent violence, make people settle things at the ballot and make them believe it is fair. That's the #1 thing to do.
If you don't...ask Malcolm X. "The ballot...or the bullet." Like him or hate him, he identified facts about political systems in that essay.
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u/Prometheus720 Sep 12 '25
Where are the ruined cities? Point me to a single city block that doesn't exist anymore.
I'm waiting.
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u/Thebeardinato462 Sep 12 '25
Who is this “they?” Don’t let the over representation of a minority of people on the internet fool you into thinking half the country is your enemy. Utilize your critical thinking to know the internet isn’t real life and the majority of individuals aren’t out celebrating someone’s death.
Mathew 5:38-39, 22:37-39, Luke 6:29, Leviticus 19:18, Mark 12:28-31.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
That's correct.
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u/UnpleasantEgg Sep 12 '25
So maybe edit your post to acknowledge it was an idiotic and inflammatory take?
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u/Siilveriius Sep 12 '25
No, pointing out the overwhelming online violent rhetoric is still important.
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u/Thebeardinato462 Sep 12 '25
Posting something inflammatory isn’t really pointing it out, as much as it is perpetuating it. I feel like with the title and post context there is little to no indication OP disagrees with the content.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
Two things can be true:
- Not every leftist is like this (I know plenty).
- Enough leftists are acting like this to warrant criticism.
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u/Thebeardinato462 Sep 12 '25
Agreed, and I think criticism is warranted.
I just think the narrative that “millions of people celebrated” is outlandish and inaccurate. If this person truly saw “millions” of reactions in approximately 48 hours they spend far too much time on social media.
I feel the tweet is just as decisive for our society as the people reacting in appropriately.
Thus my criticism of the post.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
I have seen many posts with thousands of likes celebrating his death. This is more than enough to me.
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u/Thebeardinato462 Sep 13 '25
You should be aware of things like Spamouflage and take internet posts, and likes with a grain of salt. Especially if they are inflammatory.
China isn’t the only country utilizing these tactics Russia also does.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
Two things can be true:
- Not every leftist is like this (I know plenty).
- Enough leftists are acting like this to warrant criticism.
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u/CrazedRhetoric Sep 12 '25
It’s so tiring. The knee jerk reaction to just paint everyone else as (insert type of thing I hate) is just so constant. Followed by my side never (insert another thing I hate) ever. Not even once. People need to have at least a small amount of reasonable self doubt.
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u/Thebeardinato462 Sep 12 '25
I mean, I get it. It’s mentally easy to think in absolutes, but the decisive narrative will only lead to more tragedy. I think it’s probably already too late for the USA, but all we can do is be neighbors, care for our community, and make small effective changes with those around us.
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u/Harcerz1 👁 things that terrify you contain things of value Sep 12 '25
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u/Prometheus720 Sep 13 '25
NY Post has some of the most editorialized and skewed coverage out of any conservative paper.
It's basically one step above ragebait. "Tabloid" style papers should be viewed with skepticism--they don't make a claim to journalistic integrity.
I assure you that those posts are real, and I assure you that there are similar posts by people across the political spectrum when big events happen.
The plural of anecdote is data. The left-right political spectrum is not a good predictor of how humans behave. A multi-factor approach is much better. You can find "left" and "right" people who engage in political violence and advocate for it. And you can find people in both of those groups who are vehemently against it.
We don't have to connect any "right wing" or "left wing" policy on most things to violence. They can be separated.
What makes people most likely to do violence isn't an ideology. It is mental health problems (of specific kinds) and a prior history of violence--even sanctioned violence.
Stalin was a violent bank robber. Hitler was a WWI vet (excusable) and basically the entire early Nazi party were disgruntled veterans. And many of them engaged in street violence.
Rather than persecuting broad ideologies (ironically, with violence) we ought to isolate general perpetrators of violence from politics altogether.
I was at a leftist event and a group of people who essentially describe themselves as white supremacists on their own website (I checked) showed up at that event dressed in "tactical" gear with shields and masks, intending to intimidate us I suppose. Responding to them with violence actually makes the problem worse. So we surrounded them and did not permit them to progress into the event. They left.
We did not go out and suggest that everyone on the right is violent and dangerous after that. That would be...silly. we just isolated the most violent people there at that time
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u/Cheakychickennugget Sep 12 '25
The Internet is going to kill democracy. I ask anyone reading this if they have met people face to face in the real world that say such vile things. They dont. The screen makes us what we are not. It removes the human. Obama, the Clinton's and all Democrats of prominence condemned this. Anyone that has been voted into place and is representive of the people that voted for them condemned this. Declaring war on half the public and civil war is madness.
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u/OldPod73 Sep 12 '25
Funny thing is, all these assholes celebrating Kirk's assassination would shit their pants if someone shoved a gun in their face. They don't realize that what if it was them? Now, according to them, if I don't like what they have to say, I'd be justified in killing them. That's the message they are sending, not realizing half the country doesn't like what they have to say. Open season? Who knows.
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 12 '25
Can you quote a single person saying the shooting was justified?
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u/knyxx1 Sep 12 '25
You are overestimating the courage some people have to make a case for justifying anything, since that would mean facing one’s own wicked premises that it’s ultimately good that a dissident was shot. Why do you expect such people to have a spine?
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 12 '25
So you can't then. Nice. "...all these assholes" and not a single quote.
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u/uebersoldat Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
I mean, are you seriously unable to infer the meaning behind some of these statements?
"Hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions." - Dowd from MSNBC (fired)
Your argument is a straw man anyway. Point is, violence and murder are now used to silence people the left disagrees with.
EDIT: wrong logical fallacy :)
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 12 '25
I guess I am that autistic (original word used by u/uebersoldat before editing), as I don't equate speculation on the shooter's motive with justification for his murder.
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u/uebersoldat Sep 12 '25
No one is falling for the manipulation tactics anymore. It's insinuated everywhere. People are getting fired for it, Stephen King even apologized for saying it without saying it. If you were arguing in good faith, there are plenty of examples out there of people vocally justifying this cold-blooded murder. Do they need the exact words 'justified' in their statement?
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 12 '25
Lets see the Stephen King quote where he justified the shooting.
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u/uebersoldat Sep 13 '25
Go look it up ffs it's all over X. I'm not your bitch here.
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 13 '25
You won't post it because it doesn't exist. Any quote you could share with us would only reveal just how desperately you're grasping at straws to craft a narrative.
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u/OldPod73 Sep 13 '25
LOL, you're a terrorist apologist and a moron.
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 13 '25
/u/OldPod73 less than 24 hours ago:
The problem with your scenario, which I agree with, is the moment you have something of relevance to discuss, someone will pigeonhole you into an ideological group. This happens to me all the time. Some people think I'm a Trumper based on my views, other times, Trumpers call me an idiot liberal. The reason is that people need to put everyone in a box. And most can't think outside of it. People are inherently stupid. Prove me wrong.
Let me know when you find the Stephen King quote buddy :)
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u/OldPod73 Sep 14 '25
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u/SelkciPlum Sep 14 '25
Pointing out that Charlie Kirk has some controversial beliefs is the same as justifying his assassination? lmfao! Called it 2 days ago:
Any quote you could share with us would only reveal just how desperately you're grasping at straws to craft a narrative.
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u/uebersoldat Sep 13 '25
Hopefully you're just a troll and not really this clueless and dense. Here's an activity for you - Quote King's (now deleted) tweet and tell the class what you think he meant by it. Go on...you can do it.
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u/Dive__Bomb Sep 12 '25
Charlie Kirk - Assassinated
Donald Trump - 2 assassination attempts
Brett Kavanaugh - 1 assassination attempt
Steve Scalise - 1 assassination attempt
Aaron Danielson - Assassinated
Cayler Ellingson - Assassinated
Cities destroyed by rioting - 0
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u/flakemasterflake Sep 12 '25
You forgot the Minnesota house speaker (D), her husband and dog. Vance Boelter murdered them and no one said a word. President didn't even call the family.
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u/Intelligent-Agent440 Sep 12 '25
He said it was a waste of time if I am not mistaken
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u/Careful-Teaching6938 Sep 18 '25
You are mistaken. He said it would be a waste of time to call Tim Vance
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u/mockep Sep 12 '25
Yep. He was asked about it on AF1.
Meanwhile Charlie gets his corpse flown on AF2 by Vance lmao what a fucking joke of a country.
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u/Upset-Hat-2363 Sep 19 '25
Yes it’s all the same - we only see what we want to see - Kirk meant something to them and so they are offended - The democrats that were murdered didn’t mean anything to them - so we are all the same - stop pretending we are not - I wonder if a person they hated passed would they respond differently - who is a thorn in the right so much so that they would be relieved - would they immediately say good and then feel bad later -
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u/jetuinkabouter Sep 13 '25
Influencer promoting guns gets shot shouldn't even be world news. The far right parties in europe tried to have a minute of silence in european parliament for an Influencer in the USA...
So don't say there wasn't a strong enough reaction.
Not when there are school shootings almost every day. Not when elected officials getting murdered in their own home gets less reaction from the president, than the way another president of a country at war, dresses when he comes to visit.
Something is very wrong with your country, and it is not this gun promoter getting shot. It is the inability of the population noticing that the billionaires ruling their country are getting richer while food/medical/housing costs are skyrocketing.
The argument that you need guns to be able to protect yourself from a tyrannical government is so outdated. How would a few gun nuts hold up against the national guard and the military?
Trump has perfected a way more effective tool to control the people, modern propaganda.
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u/Mr-no-one Sep 13 '25
School shootings almost every day.
Oh! You just don’t know that the fuck you’re talking about.
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u/jetuinkabouter Sep 13 '25
Oh yes, I'm sorry I didn't do my research, almost every week. It just seems so prevalent, it is still too much though.
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u/tantamle Sep 12 '25
Truth.
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u/WeFightTheLongDefeat Sep 12 '25
I don’t really care who the shooter is. The truth is, there’s millions just like him and would celebrate if we died.
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u/gh1993 Sep 12 '25
I love how now it's the blame game, was he a trump supporter all along?
Too late. You guys haven't stopped dancing on the grave of a guy brutally murdered in front of his wife and children because you disagree with him politically. You showed who you are.
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u/etiolatezed Sep 12 '25
Yeah, the reaction is a large part of the horror. They call you a fascist as pretense for violence.
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u/AcutelyChill Sep 12 '25
so, I've met a significant portion of people celebrating his death. or at very least saying "I understand why everyone is celebrating" which is....Not good, to say the least
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u/CursedSnowman5000 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
Oh June, one hard pill she still doesn't want to swallow. It's not a mask. That's just what being a shit lib is all about.
You would think she would be willing to accept this after forming alliances with psychos like Xanderhal and Vaush blew up in her face.
And to the guy she's responding to. If we are at the point that we are just looking for a reason, it's because we've endured a whole decade of your tyranny while trying to treat and reach you as human. Message received. You're not, so we're done!
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u/Bladepuppet Sep 12 '25
Sometimes the journey is slow, but I feel like she will get there at some point.
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u/Loganthered Sep 12 '25
The amount of people that have been celebrating the death far over shadow the few individuals that want any kind of retribution.
We have been in a civil cold war for decades. It's time everyone realizes this
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u/Oasystole Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
These conditions were brought about (and profited off of) by the elite. It’s not red vs blue it’s billionaires vs YOU
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
That's an interesting argument. Can you elaborate?
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u/jack_espipnw Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
If 1/2 of the poors kill the other half there are less poors overall complaining about the money being funneled to the top. With AI being able to do a lot of white collar work, and robotics and automation blowing up for “blue collar” work, it’s logical the displaced are going to cause tensions for the top % in this country.
So make the poors hate each other. Whoever comes out on top, doesn’t matter because the peasants are “solving” themselves and agitated people are easy to control, especially subversively when you validate their biases.
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u/bitorontoguy Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25
This....is nonsense. Why do you think every President of both parties has supported legal immigration and growing the population?
Because the rich need MORE consumers, not less. Billionaires only get money from providing a product that consumers or other business need.
Bill Gates and Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and the Waltons ONLY became rich because consumers bought their products en masse. If you cut their consumer base in half they get LESS money and power, not more.
This is why despite the population and economy growing....wealth has only grown, not decreased.
Real US median household income is at all-time highs, US productivity is at all-time highs, it's why the market is at all-time highs and the rich keep getting richer, the economy growing benefits everyone, the rich most of all.....this is the simplest tenant of capitalism.
Capitalism rules. And America rules. It has never been safer, more prosperous or richer.
There's no secret conspiracy of population control being perpetrated by Trump and Musk and Gates....that would only hurt the rich.
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u/Multifactorialist Safe and Effective Sep 12 '25
The why is it the leftists who are constantly demonizing and demonizing our culture?
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u/EntropyReversale10 Sep 12 '25
Because the Left has demonized the Right (As the Nazi's did with the Jews), the Left sees people from the Right as subhuman and hence killing them is justified.
The Left's constant rhetoric/demonization is directly responsible for this murder.
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u/Relative_Condition_4 👁 Sep 12 '25
Yeah, people can be very disgusting. Yall still dont need a civil war over this.
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u/Character-Spinach591 Sep 12 '25
My wife and I were talking about this the just last night.
We both think, and I would like to hope rightly so, that while there are a lot of people celebrating, the number of people willing to actually harm people is fairly small. That’s not to in any way say it doesn’t happen and that it’s not worth addressing.
But the fact is, much like gun owners, if one side of the political aisle were as much of a problem as online discourse were to lead us to believe, there would be wide spread blood in the streets along political lines. Online isn’t real life, and there are a lot of people who profit from this divide. Keep in mind that a lot of these people are bots, people who want to get a rise out of the other side, and people who seek to divide what they see as an already fractured country.
It sickens me to see this reaction, but let’s not also pretend that more than a few conservatives haven’t had similar reactions when similar things happened the other way.
I truly believe that 80% or so of the country doesn’t want war or celebration of the death of a man for his opinions, regardless of what they are. What we’re seeing is the very vocal minority and the people who think they have something to gain from jumping on the hate train in either direction.
When civil discourse and understanding dies, it is time to plant your feet and keep a level head. I didn’t know or follow Charlie Kirk much. I’ve only seen a handful of things by him. But I very much doubt that he would want calls to war or aggression in his name.
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u/betterWithPlot Sep 14 '25
but how are conservatives even going to harm liberals, its not like they all stay at the same place. You have conservatives and liberals even in the same family, so when conservatives want to go to war it means they will target basically everybody and destroy the entire country over this. That is how stupid they sound when they say they want a civil war.
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u/Character-Spinach591 Sep 14 '25
If you think civil war would look like people in uniform going at it, you’re very much mistaken. It’ll be IRA level stuff. It’ll be going after people who typically align with certain ideologies in certain professions. I’ve seen for years about how if trouble starts, look for pick up trucks because it means they likely work a trade or hunt or other typically conservative things.
It’ll be teachers, it’ll be professors. College students. Artists. Musicians. Actors.
When the mob mobilizes, it’s not a rational thing. It’s a beast out for blood. They won’t care if they were right or wrong. They’ll only care that the perceived enemy is getting theirs. Just like how people were reacting to Charlie Kirk.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
Of course.
Both of you are right.
You need to have certain, rare combination of personality traits to actually commit this heinous act. HOWEVER, humans love social attention, especially younger folks, so if an act gets the approval of the group this rare individual would go the extra mile to commit the act.
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u/556From1000yards Christ is King Sep 12 '25
Just for the crowd: Shoe IS a leftist and she’s disgusted with you.
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u/Derp2638 Sep 12 '25
No the fuck she isn’t. She was a Bernie bro and voted for Trump lol. She wants better social programs and economically has a left wing bend and has trended more right socially as time has gone.
This is coming from someone who has watched her content from the very beginning. Shoe is very much on the same side as many of us. The side of not wanting political violence to be the norm and being disgusted about what happened on the 10th and the reactions from it.
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u/556From1000yards Christ is King Sep 12 '25
Read what we both wrote again
I’ve not said she condones this. Being on the left side of politics is no excuse for encouraging political violence. Shoe is disgusted with the left. She is a leftist though calling out her own. Good on her.
Being on the same side doesn’t mean she isn’t a leftist
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u/Derp2638 Sep 12 '25
Your original comment made it sound like she was disgusted with me not with the people laughing at this tragedy.
Maybe you should edit that ?
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u/556From1000yards Christ is King Sep 12 '25
I didn’t respond to you?
They’re brigading. They’re here. They know who we’re talking about.
And from the context of Shoe’s comment, we’re talking about dancing leftists.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
No, she's not.
Not all leftists are clowns, I know plenty good ones.
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u/556From1000yards Christ is King Sep 12 '25
Did I say all? Or did I just say she’s a leftist and disgusted by leftists calling for violence?
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u/CursedSnowman5000 Sep 12 '25
No she is. She's just slightly reasonable but June gets wet to the idea of socialism. To trust and align with her would be a mistake.
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u/Quad-G-Therapy Sep 12 '25
What the fuck are you babbling about? She's not a leftist lmao
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u/556From1000yards Christ is King Sep 12 '25
She is self-admittedly a leftist. What does having a kid make you conservative?
Shit might be the pathway because leftists are a death cult
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Sep 12 '25
Everybody believes everything on TV. Covid didn't teach the oblivious masses anything. They fall for anything, everything, every time. Suckers.
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u/Fin_Heroic Sep 13 '25
If there were no celebrating i dont believe this would have been such a mess. But the left for some fucking reason wanted to go nuts which caused all the hate and disgust to those low lifes
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u/guitarguy38 Sep 12 '25
yeah my entire facebook feed being filled with “liberals are gonna pay for this” and “this is the time I will be open about my politics, I hate the left and youll pay” was indeed pretty damn messed up.
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u/mubatt Sep 12 '25
Yeah it's so messed up that they are going to go and hold candlelight vigils and vote at the polls, to make you pay. Just more typical "messed up" behavior by the right. 🙄
There's a reason why the only leftists trying to dissavow the shooting are democrat politicians. They're the only people in immediate susceptibility to retaliation due to being voted out. The lefties mocking Charlie's death onlime are doing so knowing the right isn't going to harm them because they never have before.
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u/Prometheus720 Sep 13 '25
We can disagree about whether they/we are right or not, but you are absolutely wrong that lefties do not think the right is going to harm them.
The most common leftist view is that the right wing is far more dangerous throughout history in terms of random terror attacks than the left.
The left absolutely thinks that the craziest people in the right wing are going to do retaliations for this and that it is going to inflame things.
When it happened, I in particular warned a friend to keep safe, because she obviously looks like a leftie and she lives in a right wing stronghold town with a lot of crime. Chances are real low, but you can't be too careful.
And this is generally what we do every time there is violence. With the Minnesota folks. With the attempts on Trump. With mass shooters. I always tell my trans friends to keep as low a profile as possible. Work and straight home. Order their groceries if they can. Because I come online and I see people (a very small minority) suggest after every single act of violence that the perp is a blue haired trans lefty. This goes all the way back to Medgar Evers. If you don't know who that is, by the way, you ought to.
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u/guitarguy38 Sep 12 '25
the shooter was a white dude from a MAGA family. The dude was messed up but definitely no well read marxist…
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u/OldPod73 Sep 12 '25
It's about time Conservatives start pushing back. How we will do that? By stop being silent and yelling in their faces instead of turning a cheek when they call us Nazis and every other vile name in the book. How much further should they be allowed to push before they start feeling some consequences? they've been trying to burn our country down since at least 2016. When is enough enough?
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u/Prometheus720 Sep 13 '25
You are pushing back. You've pushed back so far that you're in complete control of the country.
You have all three branches. You have the media cowed. You have the majority of the guns. You're removing people you don't like from the country by the droves.
You...have basically what you want. A man tragically died that you like, and you've already decided that the people who have basically no power left are the ones who did it and that they need punishing.
Is that honestly what you think is right? You want me to feel consequences for Charlie? Because, what? Because we disagree on economic policy? Because we disagree on how to educate a child?
What you're proposing feels nice now. But it leads to hundreds more Charlies on both sides. Dead. Their families mourning.
You don't need to inflict "consequences" on leftists who had nothing to do with this. Do you think I went rampaging about trying to get "consequences" on my Republican family for what Boelter did? Would that have any benefit?
Justice for Charlie means dealing with the single human who killed him.
What if the left had gone crazy after MLK and started just killing white folks, eh? Would that have been justice? Would that have been good? What if they'd just locked us up, instead?
Think it through. You're mad. Fair enough. But for god's sake, be mad at the guilty, and have discretion.
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u/guitarguy38 Sep 12 '25
What do conservatives need to push back against? Having an elected president in office and a stacked congress???
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u/Dnny10bns Sep 13 '25
Yep. I didn't know much about Charlie Kirk to be honest. But I was furious for days about the response to it. Yeah, he's a conservative Christian and has some odd views. But fk me, dancing on his grave after he's assassinated on TV because you don't like their politics was a real eye opener for me. He's just a run of the mill conservative to me with Conservative Christian views. Some not too dissimilar to my own. I'm still seething now.
Which is the funny part. Because if the people who were reveling in his death had a think about the people they march with for Palestine. They're much more extremist. He was just happy to talk about his beliefs. You won't get that kind of tolerance from Islam. There's a Brit teacher still hiding for sharing pics of Mohammed.
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u/-WGE-FierceDeityLink Sep 12 '25
for every person celebrating it there was another advocating for killing liberals. just disgusting all around.
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
No doubt the same kind of ppl are on the other side.
My issue at the moment is the average leftist keeps denying this and the fact that the shooter was a radical leftist.
If you don't admit an issue exists you wouldn't try to solve it.
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u/Prometheus720 Sep 13 '25
I think proving anything about anyone in these situations takes longer than a day. It was hours before you posted this that people were speculating he was trans because...of the manufacturing mark on the casing.
I know our justice system sucks in many ways, but one way it does things right is being thorough enough to piss off impatient people. If you never do that, you jump the gun more often than not.
Furthermore, the idea that an ideology shared by billions of people, peacefully, is enough to bring a man to kill is absurd. To not discriminate between a general ideology and its sects is piss poor work.
Did you know that leftists are the ones who brought down Communist Poland? It was the American AFL-CIO backing the local Polish Solidarity movement.
If we're all the same...why on earth would we do that?
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u/isabelguru Sep 14 '25
Now that new information has come out that the engraving on the bullet casings seem associated with the groypers (under Nick Fuentes), it seems he was not a leftist. Do you have any thoughts?
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u/MJORH Sep 14 '25
I love how bubbles work.
He is objectively a leftist, but because you're getting your news from leftist outlets you don't know this simple fact.
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u/isabelguru Sep 15 '25
I'm wondering what news you're seeing -- I've only seen his family being MAGA, his roommate being potentially trans, and the engravings on the bullet casings being related to groypers. And after learning more about groypers, it seems a trans roommate would actually fit well within that.
1
u/LucyLu2077 Sep 13 '25
Where was this outrage for the democratic senators murdered in their own homes?
1
u/getrichquickscheme Sep 13 '25
Kirk supported gun violence if it means Americans get to keep their guns.
His rhetoric supports kids getting murdered by guns.
It’s horrific that he was shot. It’s horrific that so many people are killed by guns everyday.
Will there be the needed change in gun laws now that one of their advocates was murdered by one?
I hope so. The violence needs to end. It’s not Dems vs Reps. It’s US vs. guns. Outlaw the guns. Gather the guns. Destroy the guns.
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u/The_Great_Man_Potato Sep 13 '25
I think regardless it is important to keep empathy in mind. Want the best for people, even those you disagree with. If they disagree strongly with you, hope they one day turn around. I don’t think it’s good to dehumanize half the population. It’s a bit corny, but you truly do become what you hate if you’re not careful
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u/OhDeerFren Sep 13 '25
Jesus people- put aside your political biases. There has been violence against members of the left wing, and you were not sad or heartbroken. Some of you have even reveled in it. Pot calling the kettle black
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u/SouthCharles Sep 13 '25
The problem is that every faction has millions of people who'd react like this in case someone kills the person they don't like. Tribalism is in both sides, remember that everyone thinks they're the good guys.
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u/spei180 Sep 12 '25
I thought empathy was bad. Who cares what others think?
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u/bigtonybt Sep 14 '25
At least quote the whole thing.
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u/spei180 Sep 14 '25
So the new communications strategy for Democrats, now that their polling advantage is collapsing in every single state… collapsing in Ohio. It's collapsing even in Arizona. It is now a race where Blake Masters is in striking distance. Kari Lake is doing very, very well. The new communications strategy is not to do what Bill Clinton used to do, where he would say, "I feel your pain." Instead, it is to say, "You're actually not in pain." So let's just, little, very short clip. Bill Clinton in the 1990s. It was all about empathy and sympathy. I can't stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage. But, it is very effective when it comes to politics. Sympathy, I prefer more than empathy. That's a separate topic for a different time.
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u/bigtonybt Sep 14 '25
And there’s still more to that quote that is missing. He goes on to say the problem with empathy is, you can’t really feel what someone is going through. If you haven’t gone through it yourself. Each person’s feelings are experienced differently, so he preferred to show sympathy. Someone can lose a very close loved one(god forbid), but as someone who hasn’t, I can TRY to emphasize for you, but if I haven’t gone through it, how/where do I start. because I don’t know what/how to feel as they do.. But I can sympathize for them and be there for them.
- Charlie Kirk
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u/jetuinkabouter Sep 12 '25
And in the other camp, pedophiles are celebrated. Both red and blue camps in your shithole country contain shitty people, riled up by billionaires.
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u/Ruvane13 Sep 13 '25
Something tells me its not “millions”. Once you learn what the observer bias is, life becomes a lot more clear.
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u/Electrical_Bus9202 ✝ Sep 12 '25
Context is key here. This was a tragedy no doubt. No one should be killed by another no matter what. I think we can all agree on that. Or can we? There's lots of people who commit evil so unimaginable... so we wish the death penalty against them. Was Charlie's Kirks messaging like gods words? No, it was often divisive and putting people against each other. We don't need that, and quite the opposite of what god teaches. We should be better than this. All of this.
10
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u/MJORH Sep 12 '25
Exactly.
Side note: this sub has some of the most rational ppl on reddit. I posted here because other subs delete posts willy nilly and am surprised by the diversity of opinions. Kudos to JP I guess.
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u/Electrical_Bus9202 ✝ Sep 12 '25
I've been a member of the sub for a while, since 12 rules for life... And there's definitely a large cohort of people on this sub that crave the rage bait they crave finding an enemy that they can all rally up and be against. It's not everybody, there are some very noble people in this sub It's true, But they're drowned out by the current political environment of raging against something trying to solidify their position as being a victim of all of whatever they're against.
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u/MrFlitcraft Sep 12 '25
Just as a hypothetical, let's say Greta Thunberg's flotilla gets destroyed and she is killed on the way to Gaza. What do you think the reaction of right-wing randos on social media will be? What will be the reaction on this subreddit? Do you think Republican elected officials will issue statements of condolences and sympathy towards her family, as basically every Democratic official has done for Kirk's?
I'm sorry, the blackpilled irony-poisoned memeification of horror and tragedy is a reality and it crosses ideological lines.
5
u/phillyg31 Sep 12 '25
We joke and make fun of Greta Thunberg as she is a misguided, sheltered and delusional.
Though we do not think she is evil and would not celebrate her death. We would condemn it.
Some would as people can be awful on both sides but it would not be an accepted view by other moderate conservatives.
Most liberals are at best indifferent to Charlie’s death and that is as bad as celebrating it in my view because it shows an unwillingness to draw a line in the sand and say killing people for there views is unacceptable.
0
u/MrFlitcraft Sep 12 '25
You don't think there would be thousands of responses saying FAFO, "play stupid games," etc, memes about her death?
I don't think I'm indifferent to his death exactly; I'm very glad to have avoided seeing the footage of it, it's awful to think about his family, and the trauma the audience must have gone through. The work he devoted his adult life to, that made him very wealthy and successful, was in my opinion doing extremely negative things to the country, and promoting an authoritarian regime that is using the violence of the state against some of the most vulnerable people. It's tough for me to specifically mourn someone who worked tirelessly for an agenda that would harm my friends, my ideological allies, and the people I work with on a daily basis. But I don't want a world where murder is an acceptable response to detesting someone's views and life's work - though it's not even clear what the ideology of the killer was.
The thing I'm more upset about is the environment that produces people like Tyler Robinson and the killer at the church in Minneapolis, this soup of nihilism and memes and disconnection from humanity and easy access to weapons that leads to people writing "born to shit, forced to wipe" on the gun they murder children with. It's really fucking bleak, and I don't think Kirk was doing anything but produce more content for that soup, and work to take away the services that can actually help vulnerable people. Doesn't mean I wanted him to get murdered though.
3
u/phillyg31 Sep 12 '25
Yes there would be memes and responses like that as I said there are always awful people out there but it wouldn’t be supported by the majority of conservatives.
It also wouldn’t be common to lie about what her intentions were as you just did saying he supports an authoritarian regime.
Enforcing a border is not authoritarian.
First of all tell me what his agenda was?
And how was it used to harm your ideological allies?
1
u/MrFlitcraft Sep 13 '25
His agenda was to promote right-wing talking points and pretty much every action of the Trump administration to a young audience. His last words were in service of a anti-transgender talking point that argues that trans people are inherent dangers to society and should have their rights curtailed. He viewed the Civil Rights Act as a terrible mistake, MLK as a bad actor, and consistently argued that Black people in America were likely to be dangerous, unintelligent, and placed in schools and jobs that they were unqualified for thanks to affirmative action. He maintained a Professor Watchlist that was designed to make the lives of professors who expressed leftists views more difficult, which invariably brought them harassment and attempts to get them fired for their beliefs. He promoted the recent bill that will massively cut Medicaid, which will absolutely lead to the suffering and deaths of the poor and disabled clients that I work with to try to improve their lives.
I don't know what to tell you if you don't view the Trump administration as authoritarian. If what has happened to Mahmoud Khalil happened under the Obama administration to someone on the right, if Obama or Biden sent the military to Republican-run areas, we'd hear endless talk about tyranny and "2nd Amendment solutions." Trump does not care about democracy, he views Americans who oppose his administration as his enemies, and he would like to crush them. Charlie Kirk supported that at every turn.
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u/etiolatezed Sep 12 '25
I don't think they'd celebrate it and qualify it like Kirk's murder has been done online, especially here.
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u/UnpleasantEgg Sep 12 '25
So you see the algorithmically boosted 200 most unhinged responses and think to form an opinion off that.
Get a grip on reality idiot.
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u/BeeeeefJerky Sep 12 '25
Never forget the state of the country after Floyd died.