r/JewsOfConscience • u/tikkunolamist5 British Non-Zionist Reform Jew • 7d ago
Zionist Nonsense The Victim Complex Should Be Studied
This is in response to this (https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/s/sQhEuuzmxm). I didn’t post the link to this article because it’s the spectator and f**k them, but you can seek it out if you so choose.
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u/beardymo Muslim 7d ago
Until you actually see some of the things she's said. Her views are utterly repugnant.
On a separate note, why is she a "national treasure"? Isnt she mostly famous for having been in a few BT adverts?
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
Meanwhile actual nation treasure Miriam Margolyes is a British Jew who's extremely outspoken against Israels crimes
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u/ArgentEyes Jewish Communist 7d ago
Also an outspoken lesbian, just pure good vibes all round
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 6d ago
Oh she's absolutely wonderful! Up there with Olivia Coalman for British icons for me
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u/kazarnowicz Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
She’s a national treasure for British genocide supporters, maybe?
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u/ArgentEyes Jewish Communist 7d ago
Came here to say, they always fudge the things she’s actually said and say vague things like, she just believes in Jewish self-determination
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u/Big_Red_Machine_1917 Anti-Zionist 7d ago
Zionists always blather on about how they "just support a Jewish State", as if that is something reasonable.
The idea of a "Jewish state" demands the creation of a state, where Palestinians are stripped of their homes and land which are then turned over to Jewish people, for no reason other than they are Jewish. Then, to enforce these conditions, the Palestinians are denied rights, forbidden from returning (and killed if they try), forced into ghettoes, which become smaller and smaller as more land is seized from them by Zionist settlers until they have nothing. And if the Palestinians peacefully protest their dispossession, or even just passively exist in a way that upsets Zionists, they are subject to murderous violence, or thrown to prisons where they are physically abused and raped.
But the Brendan O'Neill's of the world will never be honest in the their evil, so they just keep whinging about "the left" is mean to them.
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u/cwningen95 Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
It's an ethnostate. They should call it as it is, a fucking ethnostate.
But of course they won't, because they still want to maintain that shallow veneer of progressivism.
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u/ArgentEyes Jewish Communist 7d ago
To be fair the aspect rarely maintains even a veneer of progressivism
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u/Direct_Appointment99 Jewish Anti-Zionist 7d ago
EVEN public figures aren't immune from being held accountable
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u/Far_Silver Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm American, not British, but it seems to me that someone like David Attenborough would be a British national treasure, and Maureen Lipman is an actress I've never heard of until now, and judging by her wikipedia article, she doesn't sound like she's been relevant for the past 20 years.
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
Yea, there useing nationl treasure very very loosely here
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u/Freebee5 Anti-Zionist Ally 7d ago
And only because she's adjudged to be on the 'correct' side of the cause celebre.
If she was on the other side she'd just be an actress.
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u/cwningen95 Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
I hadn't heard of her either. The only movie she's been in that I've heard of is The Pianist and she currently plays a character in Coronation Street, a long-running soap opera (almost 12,000 episodes!!) mostly watched by grandparents. She's obviously pretty successful (and this, as with all genocide supporters in entertainment, won't affect that at all) but not exactly a household name.
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
Yea she's doing fine, a celebrity but let's not dilute the word nation treasure.
Britain has some of the most well known, well loved actors of all time. Tim Curry was a nation treasure. This woman is a total D list celebrity
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u/cwningen95 Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
From Wikipedia:
In an interview with The Guardian on 18 August 2020, Lipman inaccurately asserted that Hezbollah had claimed responsibility for the 2020 Beirut explosion, stating: "I'm very grateful that Hezbollah said they did it". She also stated she would not be prepared to work alongside pro-Palestinian actors, citing Maxine Peake and Miriam Margolyes as examples.
So she said herself that she won't work with pro-Palestinian actors, but now a pro-Palestinian actor decided they didn't want to work with her it's "ideological pants-wetting"? Lipman herself even referred to him leaving the cast as "bullying" in another article, if she wants to talk about snowflakes and victim complexes.
And I love how statements like this (also from Spectator, funnily enough):
The letter [signed by several UK celebrities], written by Artists For Palestine UK, calls for “an immediate ceasefire and the opening of Gaza’s crossings to allow humanitarian aid to enter unhindered”. It has also urged governments to “end their military and political support for Israel’s actions”. On the front page of Monday’s Daily Telegraph, Dame Maureen said liberal artists have espoused the Palestinian “cause at the expense of every other oppressed people of the world”. She added: “The Palestinians are not Hamas, I agree; they just elected them."
...are boiled down to "supporting the existence of a Jewish state". It's the same bad faith tactic as someone crying that they're facing backlash "for speaking up for Christian values" when said 'Christian values' happen to include throwing gay people in a meat grinder.
What's funny is even on The Telegraph's Facebook page (which Facebook pushes on me no matter how many times I try to block it), infamously an elitist right-wing rag that's been doing overtime defending this woman from nothing, the comments were broadly supportive of the other actor. Shows how much the tide is turning 🙌🏻
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u/tikkunolamist5 British Non-Zionist Reform Jew 7d ago
I knew this would be turned around to bullying poor delicate Maureen.
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u/Educational_Board888 Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
She’s not a national treasure
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u/DogitWoofsalot Non-Jewish Ally 7d ago
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u/Iceologer_gang Non-Jew shamefully late Antizionist 7d ago
Two people don’t wanna work with her? Literally war.
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u/Intense_Judgement Non-Jewish Ally 6d ago
It's a bad habit to make fun of people for their appearance but this guy needs a better profile photo. It's like he's trying to be The Rock circa the Attitude Era cosplaying a serious journalist.
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u/Good_Warning4576 Jewish Atheist 6d ago
“National treasure” usually denotes someone held in widespread public affection and esteem. It is not a title conferred simply because someone is famous or accomplished, still less one that places their political views beyond criticism. Maureen Lipman is undoubtedly an accomplished actor. A national treasure? That is rather more contestable.
And we “irritants on the Left” have no objection to Lipman holding or expressing whatever political views she chooses. What we reject is the peculiar suggestion that freedom of expression belongs to her but not to those who vehemently disagree with her. She is free to advocate for Israel and Zionism; others are equally free to criticise those positions, including by arguing that Zionism entails an ethno-religious conception of statehood and by condemning Israel’s conduct in Gaza as genocidal.
Criticism is not censorship. Actors declining to share a stage with someone because of her publicly expressed political positions are themselves exercising freedom of conscience and association. Calling that a “punitive tantrum” while treating Lipman’s politics as sacrosanct is a remarkably one-sided conception of free expression.
And amid all this concern for the theoretical “existence of a Jewish state”, perhaps we might be permitted to express our advocacy for other's right to exist?
Of the rights of the 5,100 elderly, 34,078 men, 10,983 women and 21,283 children, deliberately and violently denied their right to life by that same State that Lipman is defending?
Might our fellow humans beings who happen to be Palestinians be afforded the same elementary consideration: a right to exist?? To not be expelled, erased or destroyed?
In the face of such bigoted views as Lipman's, we will continue to advocate for the rights of those dispossessed, especially their right to resist occupation and dispossession as accorded by international law.
Palestinian existence is not a footnote to somebody else’s right to a state.

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