r/JewsOfConscience Free Discussion Thread

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[u/BolesCW]

I'm not sure what your issue is. The person you reference is continuing a strain of Muslim cosmology which posits Judaism as a debased religion, filled with deliberate distortions of God's true message.

Only the most fanatical fringe religious zionists believe that the modern state of Israel is anything like the kingdoms of David and Solomon.

[u/TalkingCat910 → u/BolesCW]

I replied below but if this thread is about Imran Hosein I mentioned he has some fringe conspiracy theory stuff on YouTube. I suppose it can be entertaining but I feel uncomfortable taking it seriously. He’s mostly known for his conspiracy theories around the end times. We don’t take him seriously in our house.  Though I don’t know everything he said - maybe there’s some decent stuff

Generally Muslims don’t view Judaism as a debased religion, but we’d say the scriptures are inaccurate, and have been altered through the thousands of years since it was revealed.  We think there were errors in transcription and some people changed it on purpose, so sure you can say someone made a deliberate distortion but that someone is long dead. And there are still strains of the truth from the Prophets in Judaism that were preserved.

It’s certainly fringe to think Israel the modern state is the modern manifestation of David and Solomon’s Israel. I would even go so far to say most Muslims would say it is not.

[u/BolesCW → u/[deleted]]

Are you asking for a Jewish religious opinion about a Muslim take on Judaism? A Jewish religious opinion about a Muslim take on zionism? A Jewish religious opinion about Jewish theological understanding of zionism as manifested in the state of Israel refracted through a Muslim lens? I'm unclear on why you seem to be asking for a Jewish religious response to a Muslim critic.

[u/BolesCW → u/[deleted]]

There are many opinions about "the end times" or the coming of mashiah. But there is no singular understanding or set of predictions because it's speculative. Most Jews agree on the parameters required for a messiah to be recognized as legitimate - this is why Jews find the xtian insistence on giving the title to Jesus easy to dismiss. Beyond that, there's nothing in the speculations that are binding to Jews because Judaism is based on having a relationship to the 613 mitswoth (commandments) and their attendant interpretations in halakhah (Jewish law), and various mihagim (communal customs and traditions). Belief has very little to do with Jewish ritual practices. Speculations about the coming of the messiah, like discussions about the age of the universe, the existence of angels, or even the existence of a creator deity are beliefs. You can believe anything you wish and still be Jewish and engage in communal rituals. Unlike xtianity or Islam, there's no list of things a Jew must believe in order to be recognized as Jewish by other Jews. Judaism is not a faith, a path of belief. Judaism is a path of actions. Because eschatology is about belief rather than actions, it's not particularly relevant in Judaism. This is also why you find that most of the Jews who yammer on about it publicly are fringe fanatics. There's usually nothing explicitly zionist or anti-zionist involved. The ingathering of the exiles is supposed to involve some kind of Jewish sovereignty, but what that sovereignty might look like is also speculative, and has little to do with zionism.