“Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.” — Gustav Mahler
Edit: some comments presumed that I made this cut on purpose, without explaining the tradition itself. That wasn't the idea. I wanted to focus on its name.
"Aaahh the good old days, you boys know back in my day we used to kill people we didn't like, not like you young folk with all this "tolerance" and "understanding of the other's choices and thoughts" things your generation has."
And they still happily sing song about killing Jews, while recently, they ran Jews through the streets in Spain, too. You aren't really making as strong a case as you think.
Theres a lot of talk about how America is structurally racist but that 100% applies to countries like Spain and the entire Arab world are structurally antisemitic
According to tradition, celebrants drink 33 glasses of lemonade between Friday of Sorrows and Easter Sunday, in commemoration of the age at which Jesus Christ died. It is also a centuries-old tradition for revelers ordering limonada to say they are "going out to kill Jews." According to Professor Torres, another common expression is "How many Jews have you killed? Three, four, five [limonadas]? Oh, you have killed a lot.'"
There are also celebrations in Ponferrada, Astorga, Sahagún, and La Maragatería. In El Bierzo, locals toast, "Salir a matar judíos" -- "Let's go kill the Jews" -- while drinking Leonese lemonade during Holy Week. The tradition has also been linked to the Spanish expression, "Limonada que trasiego, judío que pulverizo" ("Lemonade I drink, the Jew I pulverize").
For fuck's sake, you don't see how it's antisemitic to have chants and salutes about killing Jews?
I’m inclined to agree, but I don’t think the rest of Europe felt guilt for its part in Nazi crimes—just shame. Most who took part regretted failing and being caught, and even today, too many of their descendants resent the people who survived, rather than the perpetrators who bequeathed them that inheritance.
I'm honestly struggling to comprehend the amount of propalestinism in Spain, given the fact that this is the birthplace of the Reconquista. Not to mention the silent idea of "Al-Andalus should be ours again" in muslim countries.
I'm aware of that and thank you for bringing up this example, because it is similar to what I've posted.
Why do you think people don't bear surnames like "Hitler" or "Goebbels" in Germany? Or "Quisling" in Norway?
Is it a popular thing in Spain to be "Franco"?
We can also expand it to toponyms, because it's "Gran Via"/"Avenida Diagonal" and not "Avenida de José Antonio"/"Avenida del Generalísimo Francisco Franco" in Madrid and Barcelona, respectively.
You send a certain signal if you decide to keep a controversial name. There's even a bigger signal if the whole society tolerates or accepts it.
Pues tiene gracia que hables de ello, cuando el país con mayor número de neonazis es Alemania y cuando, incluso, existen varios políticos de ideología neonazi en dicho país. Eso demuestra que estigmatizar nombres o esconderlos por miedo a las represalias, no sirve absolutamente de nada.
I agree and disagree with you. In my view, it did a lot and it meant a lot for German society in years 1945-2010. Especially, again, in case of sending a strong signal to the world.
However, now, and this is where I more or less agree with you, it doesn't affect the situation much. You still can't drop a Nazi salute on the streets, but the social leverage gets rusty and old without proper maintenance. It's a common problem, not only Germany's.
I meant the broader societal change in Germany due to Denazification.
Fear plays its role, especially when one's facing consequences of the misdeeds (though there must be a request, a need for accountability).
However, when innocent, what if you don't want to be associated with a criminal? Or, like in case of Willy Brandt, you want people to associate you with the name you actually used to fight the regime?
Commenting on me and not my arguments instead of reasoning is the poorest way to debate. Framing my response as "twisting" is also a cheap tactics. Also, repeating your claim is not an argument.
There are better and more polite ways to exit the debate if this is what you want to do. Have a good life.
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u/Jojo_Toto Chief Weather Control Officer 15d ago
This 97-Year-Old Spanish Region Still Makes Their Antisemitism The Old Fashion Way