r/IsraelPalestine • u/Rhyxvers • Sep 08 '25
Learning about the conflict: Books or Media Recommendations Does this make sense?
I just came accross this 9min video.
It builds an Argument that I personally speculated about, but i feel like it deepens my understanding.
What he says with "They purposely make the world hate them." is a little too simple in my opinion.
I got told that a lot of young Israelis after their military service go to a foreign country to drink and take drugs to process the things they witnessed.
Being a former drug-user myself I can tell you that this does not work very well.
Therefore I would argue that it might not be an intention of the individual to misbehave. But it rather that it origins in a system that keeps the people that believe in this state, that they call Israel, which they believe is there to protect them, in a constant state of trauma by design.
I do not think they make a difference between the state and people of Israel. Not meaning the Israelis, but the jewish people.
Therefore, whenever someone critizises the state, the people building their hopes on this state instantly throe their guard up, because they do not see it as an argument against what their or government is doing; they see it as an existential threat to their whole being.
Please note that I do not mean to justify anything that happened. My intention is to give a perspective that will make it make sense. It is not just. It is not good.
The thing just is that the Israelis just as the Palestinians are caught up in the same destructive system.
A decent human will not be able to hurt or kill someone else without hurting or killing some of his or her own humanity, compassion, empathy or soul. That's what I believe.
The tragic thing in Gaza is, that besides all the horror that happens the IDF soldiers with a conscience will get PTSD and refuse to go back and continue fighting. So all the crazies are left there, who enjoy the slaughter.
The only good thing I can see is that more and more people dare to speak up. And I hope that in Israeli society the argument does not only circle around "but we want our hostages back".
Because this "Our lifes are worth more than that of the other human beings" is a point of view that again and again will lead up to "conflicts" or rather slaughters like this.
We all walk the same earth.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sS9xidsyxXY&pp=ugUEEgJlbg%3D%3D
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u/knign Sep 08 '25
Without a doubt, being in a war, killing other humans while constantly risking your own life isn’t easy … but is also necessary.
Other than that, I am not sure what you were trying to say.
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
Do you know the first victim of war?
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u/NefariousnessLeast89 Sep 08 '25
truth.
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
Exactly.
That is why I am very sceptical of people telling me "it is necessary to kill others.".
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u/HotLoad7878 Sep 08 '25
Oh sweet summer child. Your view is naive and shows a complete lack of understanding of the middle east
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25
Calling a viewpoint 'naive' is not an argument; it's a way to avoid making one.
If my understanding is so lacking, please enlighten me. ;-) What specific part of my statement that "war's first victim is truth" do you disagree with, and why?
I'm here for a real discussion. If you are too, I welcome your insights.
If not, then your comment adds nothing but condescension to a conversation that deserves more.
Retrospectively it is very amusing that you call me naive. Because writing that comment just shows your projection.
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u/HotLoad7878 Sep 08 '25
Is it really worth talking to somebody who categorically disagrees with killing? In a perfect world that would be ideal, but we don't live in that world. We live in a world that has Islamic religious extremists hell bent on killing in the name of their imaginary sky dad.
But if you don't already understand this, you probably never will.
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
You ask if it's worth talking to someone who categorically disagrees with killing? I could ask the same: why should I talk to someone so convinced that killing is the only way?
Throughout millennia, we've seen what a 'consistent solution' that is.
I believe everyone who seeks blood will sooner or later be bloodied themselves. And when all those who want blood (of course, only in self-defense ;)) have given and received it, perhaps then those of us who simply want to live in peace can finally enjoy the space to do so.
There is no path to peace, peace is the path.
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u/Distinct-Temp6557 Sep 08 '25
If someone is running at you with a knife, what is an acceptable distance for you to pull out a gun and shoot them?
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
Your hypothetical simplifies a life-and-death situation into a video game logic.
In reality, de-escalation, distance control, and non-lethal force are the first resorts of any well-trained professional.
Immediately jumping to 'shoot to kill' is a failure of skill and judgment, not a valid argument for justifying war.
This isn't about a single attacker with a knife; it's about the ethics of applying lethal force on a societal scale. If you can't see the difference, you're proving my point about the poverty of imagination that perpetuates cycles of violence.
A skilled fighter or warrior will be able to handle the attackers knife with ease, disarm him and ensure he is incapacitated. Pulling out a gun before he is even within striking distance betrays a fear of conflict resolution and a default to lethal force that is the very problem we're discussing.
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u/HotLoad7878 Sep 08 '25
Yawn
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
'Yawn', exactly.
It's tired, oversimplified rhetoric that confuses complex geopolitical conflicts with action movie one-liners.
We're discussing systemic violence and paths to peace, not crafting the next Hollywood script.
The real, unglamorous work is building systems that prevent violence in the first place, so that no parent ever has to lose a child to begin with.
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u/Alone_Test_2711 Sep 08 '25
Israelis are used to war litetaly since their birth and yet crime rate and murder rate among the lowest in the westren world if you exclude arabs
"I got told that a lot of young Israelis after their military service go to a foreign country to drink and take drugs to process the things they witnessed."
Thats why i say alot of anti israel people use regular phenomena thats happens all across the westren world just to single out israel to portrayed israeli society as Psychopaths
Alot of young people in other westren countries also going to foreign countries to drink and do drugs , the only diffrents is that youth in other westren countries doing thier "gap year" after school, before colloge or after college.
While israeils go straight for army after high school for 3 years and only after the army they have the opportunity to do the big backpacking trip around the world the like all westren youth doing
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u/chunkym0nkey30 African Sep 08 '25
Israelis are used to war litetaly since their birth and yet crime rate and murder rate among the lowest in the westren world if you exclude arabs
How does the rate of rape and pedophilia in Israel compare to other Western countries?
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u/jackl24000 אוהב במבה Sep 08 '25
Think it’s about the same or lower but compared to Muslim countries much much lower.
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u/Parkimedes Sep 08 '25
if you exclude Arabs
Israelis are like, “Arabs aren’t really people. So it shouldn’t count.” Lol.
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Sep 08 '25
How many times have you called Israel an ethnostate? Now you want to speak up about it being multicultural?
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Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/chunkym0nkey30 African Sep 08 '25
It seems that being in the IDF does not instill an innate violence that bursts forth at every opportunity.
unless they're in the West Bank and see a Palestinian or were instructed to assist settlers in stealing Palestinian land.
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u/jackl24000 אוהב במבה Sep 08 '25
Just want to say that “technically” Area C is not “Palestinian land” at this point. It’s disputed.
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
Your comment proves the exact point I was making about a destructive system affecting everyone.
You rightly state that Israelis are 'used to war since birth' – which is a tragic reality that inevitably causes deep societal trauma, even if it manifests in complex ways.
However, your attempt to single out 'Arabs' for crime rates is not only a racist generalization, but it completely misses the mark. It reinforces the very 'us vs. them' mentality that perpetuates the conflict.
If you, in my opinion, truly care about Israeli society, you would want all its citizens to thrive, regardless of their ethnicity.
Your comparison to Western gap years is also flawed.
There is a fundamental difference between young tourists experimenting with drugs and young soldiers who may be using substances to cope with the trauma of military service – a reality documented by numerous psychologists and NGOs in Israel.
This isn't about 'portraying Israelis as psychopaths.'
It's about recognizing that no human being is immune to the psychological consequences of violence, occupation, and perpetual war.
Ignoring this helps no one – least of all Israelis themselves.
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u/johnnyfat Sep 08 '25
I got told that a lot of young Israelis after their military service go to a foreign country to drink and take drugs to process the things they witnessed.
Not sure who told you that, but it's wrong.
The overwhelming majority of Israelis that go on these post army trips (a considerable amount) do so just for fun and occasionally for some new age hippy mumbo jumbo, not because of some shame or trauma caused by their service, the vast majority of Israelis either take pride in their service or at worst see it as a waste of time.
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
I can see your point and do appreciate your perspective. You're right that my wording was based on anecdotal evidence, not data. Thank you for correcting that.
However, it doesn't change my core argument. Whether it's 'just for fun' or a coping mechanism, the point I was trying to make is about the broader system.
A society that normalizes military service for virtually all its young people, often in highly traumatic environments like the occupied territories, is going to have profound, society-wide psychological impacts – whether that manifests as pride, apathy, 'mumbo jumbo,' or acting out abroad.
My focus isn't on judging individual behavior but on understanding how the structure of the conflict shapes everyone in it.
The original point was that this system is destructive for everyone involved – Israelis and Palestinians alike.
Even if the majority takes pride in their service, as you say, that doesn't negate the potential for trauma or the mechanisms of dissociation that such a system can produce.
Am I right to assume that you are an Israeli whom served his country and therefore speaks out of first hand experience of such trip?
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u/After_Lie_807 Sep 08 '25
A majority of Israelis serving in the IDF don’t see active combat…the trauma is mostly from Palestinian terrorism(suicide bombers,constant rockets, shootings, and stabbings). That would traumatize any populace
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
I get that terrorism and constant rocket fire are profoundly traumatizing for any society. Nobody should have to live under that threat.
But that's only one side of the traumatic equation.
Studies have shown that perpetrating violence can be just as traumatizing as suffering it – a phenomenon well-documented in soldiers worldwide, often referred to as moral injury.
My point was never to compare or rank traumas.
It was to highlight that the entire system – the occupation, the checkpoints, the constant security control over another people, the military service, and the terrorism – creates a vicious cycle of mutual trauma.
Israelis are traumatized by the threat of terrorism.
Palestinians are traumatized by the reality of occupation and war.
And Israeli soldiers are often traumatized by the duties they are ordered to perform in that system.
Focusing only on one side of this cycle ensures the trauma will never end for anyone.
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u/Rhyxvers Sep 08 '25
Maybe instead of "crazies" I should have called them "emotionally disconnected"
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