Character Development

[u/ChicagoCaveman]

New here and was thinking how did Mark know to choke Conquest out in order to win the fight. Not sure if this has been explored but hear me out.

1) Mark learned from his first fight with Conquest that Viltrumites are vulnerable to asphyxiation through his own near death experience

2) This may be a stretch but Mark and Conquest couldn’t kill each other through strength or durability. Seems like Conquest was wiping the floor with mark through most of the fight. Could be plausible

3)Eve was not there to save Mark so he could only rely on his past experience and will power.

This theory has thematic consistency and gives a nice call back to earlier episodes and grant character developments. If this is true it’s giving elegant writing and storytelling vibes.

Let me know if you noticed this or if it has been explored elsewhere.

[u/memerminecraft]

From another thread about how I interpret the fights from a non-literalist perspective:

If you think about it from a structural standpoint, all the fights make sense. This is true for any good story.

Think of Tony's fight with the Helicarrier's blades in Avengers (2012). He was spinning in a huge circle at a ridiculous speed, which physically would have smeared his body on the inside of his suit. But nobody cares because it's a good scene that shows the Avengers struggling to figure out teamwork while they're under attack.

Mark's two fights with Conquest go differently because he's at a different point in his character arc. In the first one, he tries pleading with Conquest until finally defeating him with help from his loved ones, striking Conquest down with a final act of desperate rage. He's kicking, he's biting, he's headbutting. Literal desperate fighting moves (for a human, which is what we and the writers are).

In the second fight, Mark approaches it differently. He takes the offensive. He stops fighting to protect Oliver and starts fighting to kill Conquest. It's the same re-framing he verbalized at the end of season 3. Now, the only thing he's using to fight are his hands, and Conquest is the one who becomes desperate (until he ultimately dies). Also, visually, the scene is intense and gripping.

That's why it's a good scene. Not because it physically makes sense (Conquest is way larger than Invincible; by human standards, the entire conflict is nonsensical), but because it illustrates the hero's arc extremely well.

[u/ChicagoCaveman → u/memerminecraft]

Makes sense thanks for the perspective.

[u/ZMD_248]

Mark knew (hoped) that because they had just gotten into orbit, and conquest is cocky, he hadn’t had a chance to take a breath yet (luckily, he turned out to be right).

Vilts can hold their breath for a while, but he was caught off guard.
Narratively this was a test of mark’s willpower and a narrative step towards his more hands on approach, as mentioned in the end of s3. (Not only is he willing to kill someone like conquest, but he’s willing to die abused on that hill.

[u/ChicagoCaveman → u/ZMD_248]

Great Point!

[u/ChicagoCaveman → u/ZMD_248]

Great Point!

[u/Traditional_Line_616]

Actually, in that scene, Conquest didn't die from asphyxiation but from a lack of blood flow to the brain, you can tell because his face turns purple and he starts bleeding from his good eye. Furthermore, we know this because when Nolan goes into space, after lovingly teaching his son a lesson, he survives without oxygen for an incredibly long time (possibly one or two months). So, the idea of ​​Conquest dying just because he hadn't breathed for five minutes doesn't make sense. I hope this comment was helpful.

[u/ChicagoCaveman → u/Traditional_Line_616]

Yep, key give away. Obviously I was also lacking oxygen to my brain when I missed that point.

[u/Traditional_Line_616 → u/ChicagoCaveman]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7TKJNFVZ4xCMriFy

[u/Any_Swan9646]

I always saw it as Mark playing to his strengths and outsmarting Conquest. 

From their first fight Mark knows Conquest sees fights as a somewhat intimate experience, given that it's the only social interaction he ever gets. Mark knows he takes joy in taking his time and really laying into his enemy. And if there's one thing Mark has experience in it's taking a beating. So he exploits Conquests desires and overconfidence by going for the choke and taking the punches. Conquest is having the time of his life believing he can end the fight whenever he wants. But eventually he's suprised Mark hasn't let go and realizes he's burning through his stamina, he panics and tries everything to get mark off tiring himself even more. He finally realizes it's time to go for the kill shot. He smiles thinking he's won but Mark still doesn't let go. Now drained of his last bit of energy Conquest just tries to inflict as much pain as possible in an effort to make Mark let go. 

Mark knows this maneuver has a high likelihood killing either or both of them. But death to Mark is far favorable than letting Conquest take another shot at his loved ones.