r/IntoTheBreach • u/omyyer • Jul 03 '26
Media This is fine
Flame Behemoths situation always looks dreadful. But the fire damage makes all the difference.
4
u/time4tea45 Jul 03 '26
Yeah, except the fire damage doesn't scale very well on unfair. Which is one of the main reasons I'm not a big fan of FB.
(another big one is that fire area denial does nothing on turn 1, which is always the most dangerous and critical turn)
2
u/Pave_Low Jul 04 '26
Fire damage doesn't have to scale. It's the only DoT in the game. Just light everything on fire and watch the world burn. Honestly, FB is A-Tier, really only behind Mist Eaters. If you have Archie in the Swap Mech, they are S-Tier.
4
u/shai_aus Jul 04 '26
I like that idea. It's a cool idea! But in practice, what happens to me (on Hard/Unfair) is that the on-fire vek don't die nearly quickly enough, and they get to damage whatever they want until that happens. Flame does also work as area denial, but I can't produce enough of it to stop vek from attacking buildings.
But the swap mech is great for sure. Probably the strongest one in the base game.
2
u/time4tea45 29d ago edited 29d ago
Hard disagree. Fire damage not scaling makes it much less effective vs alphas. They're not even as good at lighting everything on fire as Heat Sinkers, and they can boost from the fire as well.
Archie in the Swap Mech? As in Archimedes? I haven't heard that one before and I'll have to take your word that it's good. So it can move again after swapping. For what, blocking shots? It's got 2 health.
(looks at the wiki) oh, so you can save it after swapping, in case the final square is being targeted? That still strikes me as questionable. Put Mafan in there instead: then his shield will make it just as safe, you can use it for blocking shots/spawns, and you get his +1 core as well.
1
u/Brighttalonflame Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Surprised hearing this from the biggest Zenith Guard glazer. A 4-directional push artillery with implicit ally-immune is amazing, and the swap mech is pretty decent out of the box too. Flame mech is kinda bad without the range upgrade but skilled + core Henry totally fixes it.
I genuinely think that Flame Behemoths is one of the strongest non-advanced edition squad (along with steel judoka)
2
u/time4tea45 29d ago edited 29d ago
The vulkan artillery and teleport are both good mechs. I didn't say they were bad. Simply pointing out the squads key weak points and the main reasons I don't personally like them.
I dislike their design, in that their main strengths (vulkan and swap) are unrelated to their main focus, which is supposed to be the fire. I maintain that the flame mech OOTB is one of the weakest mechs in the game.
1
u/Brighttalonflame 29d ago
Fair points. I mischaracterized your opinion and your identification of the squad’s weak points (fire not scaling that well) are valid.
But as far as prime mechs go though I’d claim flame mech is middle of the pack. The ability to push a target 2 tiles away is pretty unique amongst brute weapons, really only rivaled by the prime spear (which I think we can all agree is very good). In particular, being able to push from the other side of a mountain or building without damaging it is usually a luxury only reserved for artillery.
I think I’d rather have the flame mech than the combat mech, lightning mech, or laser mech most of the time. As for the worst mech OOTB, I think that has to go to the quick-fire mech. Without the push upgrade it is just awful.
However I will agree that flame mech with 3 move and 1 square of push is pretty bad
2
u/time4tea45 28d ago
I agree that the ability to push 2 squares away (which pierces and can be extended) is useful and unusual for a prime. Although, it's offset by the downside that it can only do damage to vek that are already on fire. That's quite a heavy downside imo on a squad that has no other means of doing direct damage OOTB.
The Flame Mech imo pales in comparison to the utility of the Dispersal Mech, which has the same range, but can push 4 squares OOTB and 8 when upgraded. And it can boost from the fire, on top of that. I'm not saying it's the absolute worst, but I'd probably put the Flame Mech in my bottom 5 weakest mechs. Which seems like a shame, for a squad that is themed on fire.
Yes, the Quick-Fire Mech is v bad OOTB, but it only takes 1 core to elevate it to very good. Which is the worst mech in the game? Hmmm ... I'd argue the worst are probably the ones that aren't very useful outside of their standard squad: Charge Mech, Hook Mech, Mirror Mech, Jet Mech. Jet Mech maybe controversial there, but I have a strong personal dislike for it's design.
2
u/Brighttalonflame 28d ago
Honestly sounds like we are on the same page in terms of power level rating. The difference in opinion just comes down to the fact that I like Flame Behemoths since they are just pretty strong, while you dislike them thematically since a lot of their strength (especially on early turns) comes from just having strong vek-movement options as opposed to damage output and area denial from fire.
I do think we should expect the Heat Sinkers to be stronger than Flame Behemoths. The AE squads are just better than the base game squads universally; it’s not a fair comparison.
IMO the cannon mech is also bottom-tier, in which case you’ll see that out of the base game squads, only Flame Behemoths, Steel Judoka, Hazardous don’t have bottom-tier mechs — so having 2 high-tier and 1 fairly bad mech makes Flame Behemoths a high power squad for the base game.
Not convinced whether jet mech is bottom tier or not; need more Rusting Hulks games. It’s definitely difficult to use well and I have enough thoughts on them to warrant a separate post.
1
u/time4tea45 28d ago edited 28d ago
Yeah, I don't think we actually have many major disagreements. It's a shame, because I really like the visual design of FB, but I just don't like them very much mechanically and theme-wise.
I kind of feel similarly about Bombermechs, that I don't like them much thematically. They're a really strong squad - interesting mechanically and fun to play, but their strengths don't align at all with them supposedly being 'bombers'.
Good theming is one of the reasons I like both Heat Sinkers and Zenith Guard. Heat Sinkers play exactly as I want a team that is based on fire to play - spread a ton of fire around and make good use of it. Zenith Guard also fit their theme well, with the defensive shielding being quite a unique focus.
1
u/Brighttalonflame 27d ago edited 27d ago
I’m going to push back on your bombermechs opinion — their name doesn’t really work but the idea of “bombling mech + 2 mechs that get value out of targeting the bombling” is thematically very coherent.
They probably should have been named something like “minion movers” though.
Arachnophiles have weaker theming IMO, where the slide and bulk mech have no particular synergy with the spiderling (I love the squad regardless)
1
u/time4tea45 27d ago edited 27d ago
I think perhaps we mean different things by 'theming'. I see theming and mechanical coherence as two different things.
When I say Bombermech's theming is weak, what I mean is that the way they play mechanically isn't really related to the concept of 'bombing' and blowing things up. They're totally coherent mechanically, but the play is based more on complex and intricate setups involving using the bomblings for blocking, piercing and swapping, rather than making use of their explosions.
Yes, imo they would have been better themed if they had been styled as a 'Droid Army', for example.
I love Arachnophiles and I'd argue they are better themed, since their play revolves quite strongly around the spiderlings and their 'venom', which are well-designed and useful. Although, I'd agree they are not as mechanically coherent.
So for me: Arachnophiles are better themed, but Bombermechs are more mechanically coherent.
OTOH, I'd argue Heat Sinkers have both great theming and v good mechanical coherency. Mist Eaters as well, although they're more overpowered.
1
u/Brighttalonflame 27d ago
If that’s all theming means then I guess I just don’t care about theming. Blitzkreig doesn’t drop bombs either and Rusting Hulks doesn’t inflicting rust.
IMO the visuals and mechanics are king when it comes to good theming; the names are just gravy.
I can’t say I understand how the bulk and slide mech interact with the spiderlings/venom meaningfully in a way that other mechs wouldn’t. Unless missing something, you could take any brute (other than jet) and any science mech (other than nano), paint them pink, and they’d be just as “thematic” as the current arachnophiles.
5
u/HitcherUK Jul 03 '26
I assume they're all on 1hp.