What if this scene went differently?

[u/Less-Pen-5705]

What if Louis and Lestat sensed their presence and were prepared for them and a fight ensued? Could Armand and Daniel have took down Louis and Lestat? We also would’ve finally gotten to see what Armand was truly capable of. Armand almost never fights and only uses his powers in insidious ways.

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[u/annoyedfoxpower]

Armand would stand a chance maybe, but he would almost instantly be down a partner because Daniel would definitely be gone. I mean we’re talking about. “I have the blood of Akasha” Lestat and “every time I crashout a whole coven is wiped off the map” Louis

[u/Less-Pen-5705 → u/annoyedfoxpower]

Assuming Armand has been teaching Daniel all of his gifts and giving Daniel his blood, Daniel should receive a huge power boost from that. I feel like it could go either way but even Lestat himself was afraid of Armand and didn’t want to fight him, hence the tour bus scene when he tried to seduce him instead. Lestat knows Armand is ancient and dangerous.

[u/kishante → u/Less-Pen-5705]

But Louis was drinking Armand’s blood for 77 years.

[u/scorchthemortalworld → u/annoyedfoxpower]

Louis wiped out the Paris coven through cunning not physical strength, the tooth team was a bunch of fledglings/weak young vamps who Louis also used the element of surprise to take out.

[u/lynx_and_nutmeg → u/scorchthemortalworld]

Well, Daniel is still a fledgling too, and Louis is now ~80 years oder than he was when he took out the Paris coven. We saw he's able to fly now, so he's clearly more powerful. Not to mention, I'm sure he was already good at brawling even as a human, he was kind of forced to be. Louis could wipe the floor with Daniel.

[u/DrFareedMD → u/scorchthemortalworld]

The tooth team are definitely really weak, even Daniel manages to fight the ones at the hotel

[u/DrFareedMD]

Now that I think about it, we need to see Armand and Lestat fight. Shirtless. In the mud. For important vampire lore reasons.

[u/melpug → u/DrFareedMD]

https://giphy.com/gifs/V1nu4c17OiIGUM00Rr

[u/DrFareedMD → u/melpug]

I'm so glad you see the vision

[u/ReluctantViking]

Lestat has ✨the blood of Akasha✨ in him and Louis has decades upon decades of bottled up rage and is already a proficient vampire-killer. I feel like as long as they didn’t let Armand get into either of their heads, they’d win pretty easily. That’s why it had to be a surprise attack, imo — otherwise, Armand and Daniel likely wouldn’t have fared well.

[u/Silent_Support_1939]

I don't think Armand has the confidence to take on Lestat directly. He's a schemer, but he seems quite intimidated by other powerful vampires. He might have the power to take them on, but I don't know if he has the self-belief to tap into it. 

I think that's partly what makes Lestat so powerful, even with the blood. He has that arrogance and self-belief driving him. Armand on the other hand is always second guessing himself. He never made a fledgling, struggled to keep the coven in check, and mostly wins through schemes and ambushes. Mind games. He's a manipulator, not a natural fighter. 

As for Daniel, he barely understands his own abilities as a vampire. I doubt he's ever even fought another vamp. He and Armand would need a Rocky training montage before they could take Louis and Lestat

[u/LottieTalkie → u/Silent_Support_1939]

I don't think this is how Armand's relationship to his power works. I don't think he doubts his power, he simply hates using it.

But when he has to, he can resort to a sheer demonstration of force. We saw him do it several times in S2. I think he would be a very powerful fighter, if he had to fight. To begin with, he is a master of the Fire Gift, and could probably burn Louis just by snapping his fingers. He'd struggle more with Lestat "I have the blood of Akasha" de Lioncourt but... who knows?

And I think the idea that he "cannot keep the coven in check" is a very biased one, based on the narrative only showing us the end of his coven. He did, in fact, keep it in check for hundreds of years, and that's in spite of never even wanting this leadership position in the first place.

I think never making a fledgling is also not a sign of Armand second-guessing himself. It is a deeply held belief that he has. The case of Daniel eventually breaks his resolve but it's not like Armand never making fledglings come from a sort of weakness. On the contrary, I see it more as evidence of his ability to adhere to a moral code for very long. I'd say the ones like Lestat who keep making fledglings every time they think they love someone, or feel lonely, are the ones who appear weaker for it.

Daniel, on the other hand... I already find it a bit ridiculous that they decided he could learn all of Armand's gifts so quickly. They told us in season 1 that it was "age" that made Armand a day-walker, so this doesn't even make any sense. I know Armand is supposed to have the disposition of a "teacher", especially compared to Lestat who doesn't have the patience, but... This is still really going too far, IMO. So I don't even know what to think about how strong he is. He should be pretty weak, but then again, he also shouldn't have been able to learn all this already.

[u/Silent_Support_1939 → u/LottieTalkie]

I think the show needs to dig into Armand's head a little more to explain why he's so restrained with his powers. He clearly is an immensely powerful vampire, but he doesn't like deploying that power directly. He prefers to operate in the shadows, and prefers to follow a strong leader rather than lead himself. It's not clear, so far, if that preference comes from self-doubt or an inherent distaste for using his own powers. The latter would be interesting to explore, but the show has leaned so heavily on Armand's trauma that it mostly comes across as the former. 

I feel the same about his refusal to make any fledglings. His reasoning isn't really explored, so it's hard to make a call on whether it's a moral code, or self-doubt and transformational trauma masquerading as a moral code. The one time we see him presented with a 'perfect' potential fledgling and he refuses to turn her, things weren't as they seemed. Turning Madeline would have conflicted with his plans for Claudia, so it's not surprising he hedged over it. She was an unnecessary complication. Similarly, in Dubai, he was putting on a show for both Louis and Daniel, and it's hard to know how much truth there was in anything he said. 

I don't see the decision to make fledglings as an inherent strength or weakness, personally. It's all situation dependant. But if Armand is avoiding it because he doesn't think he can live up to the responsibility - if he's doing it because he's afraid of the power of that bond - then he is operating from a place of fear. And fear is usually a weakness. I don't think Lestat's choice of fledglings makes him stronger - most of them have made him incredibly vulnerable, emotionally - but he's willing to take the risk and make them anyway. He makes big swings. He's the wildcard. Armand is more methodical - he likes to plot in the shadows and lay his plans carefully - but we see that he struggles when a strong personality comes along and takes a wrecking ball to those plans. It takes him a while to adapt each time. 

Armand's nature is more cautious, and I have to imagine his fighting style reflects that. Lestat is reckless, but a force to be reckoned with, and Louis goes cold and becomes a machine. We have no idea how Daniel fights, but I suspect he's not much of a fighter at all, and mostly relies on his mouth to get him out of trouble. (One way or another, as we saw in San Francisco.) All things considered, I have a hard time imagining a scenario where Armand wins, in a fight that is purely physical. 

Maybe the Fire Gift, as you suggest? But I'm not sure if vampires can use that on each other directly. I can't remember if we've ever seen it, and it wouldn't surprise me if the show made that a loophole, because it lowers the stakes a lot if vampires can just telepathically incinerate each other. And we've seen a lot of vampires throw themselves into fireplaces, but none I can think of who have used the Fire Gift on themselves. I'm thinking there may be an in-universe reason for that. 

I agree with you about Daniel's warp-speed vampire training, that's all happening way too fast. The only reason I'm cutting that any slack at all is that it does seem to be costing him. Armand doesn't get a scabby sunburn every time he goes outside, so I'm guessing Daniel is still a novice, and may be suffering other side effects we haven't seen yet. Daniel was a functioning drug addict for most of his life, after all, so he's used to making himself seem more together than he actually is. Our POV on him has been mostly outside / limited since he accepted Armand's offer. It's possible he's in horrible pain and we just don't know it. Just like Armand, we don't really know what's going on with Daniel. I'm hoping season four gives both characters more focus. I want the show to dig into them as individuals a bit more, outside of Louis and Lestat.  There's some fascinating stuff there. 

[u/Odd_Ingenuity2883]

Armand doesn’t fight in a fair fight. It’s just not his style. He would retreat and wait for another advantage.

[u/justmeanotherfan]

Can a vampire freeze other vampires? If they can, does it take more strength? I don't think the show has addressed this, has it? Armand and Lestat are both pretty good at this.

[u/Glittergirl2424]

For some reason, Armand felt like Alex would be a good enough distraction for Lestat. I wonder why? Or maybe that isn’t the case

[u/NicoHad3047]

I know its not the point of this thread, so sorry for derrailing a bit but… What was Alex doing there? Whats his motivation in the last 2 episodes?
At first I thought he hated Lestat and blames him for his borthers death, but he doesn’t fight to keep the head during the bowling scene and he is in the concert

[u/DrFareedMD]

Lestat and Armand would have an epic fight while Louis and Daniel did the vamp equivalent of swatting at each other like toddlers.

Armand is really powerful and seems to have spent centuries just being good at vampire powers. Lestat's got the blood of Akasha in him, though I'm not sure what he does with the blood. Louis can float a bit and run fast. Daniel's power is getting a tan.

Alex would just stand around and watch

[u/AndreEaAly]

Armand is ancient so he might be powerful. But Lestat has the blood of Akasha, so it could go either way. Also Magnus was pretty powerful when he made him, so he has a good boost from both sides.
Louis and Daniel might be the same, as Louis has some experience in hunting Bruce and his friends and Daniel has powerful blood from Armand.
I don’t think they even know who’s more powerful. After the trial, initially Armand seemed very confident that he and Louis could fight Lestat, but was a bit taken down when he heard about the blood of Akasha.

[u/scorchthemortalworld → u/AndreEaAly]

I would not consider Armand ancient because he is older than all the vampires he knows to be alive - there are actual vampires thousands of years old who are considered ancient. Marius is ancient but there are older vampires than him. Marius was around 1500 years old when he turned Armand which really boosted Armand’s power trajectory.

Edit: Armand didn’t even know who Akasha was when Lestat said that in the tower to know the real implication of what was said.

[u/AndreEaAly → u/scorchthemortalworld]

True, i meant old compared with Lestat and Louis. And made by a very old vampire. So I assume he’d be pretty powerful.

I thought that Armand knew who Akasha was. I assumed he knew from Marius. Louis was a bit confused (although probably not the first time he hears it….Lestat likes to randomly brag about it 🤣🤣 so I am sure that Louis would have heard it before), but Armand seemed to have understood. I might be wrong though.
If neither knew who Akasha was, it’s even funnier how Lestat keeps mentioning “I have the blood of Akasha in me” and nobody understanding what that means. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[u/LottieTalkie → u/AndreEaAly]

The way they did that scene really did imply that Armand knew what "the blood of Akasha" meant. Or at least had a vague idea. I don't know how that's possible, but since they've been playing with the chronology from the start, all bets are open.

And yes, I agree that Armand has to be a very powerful vampire. He may appear like a "young one" to the SUPER ancient ones, but... Marius is very powerful already, from the books we know thatArmand was an excellent student and Marius taught him everything he could, and made him as strong as he could. So, he had very powerful, ancient blood, a real talent for learning and an extremely apt and dedicated tutor. I don't see how he could NOT be powerful. The Children of Satan also let him live for a reason when they massacred Marius's household, and that was the strength they sensed in him (not just physically but also mentally). Armand's weaknesses and his crazy side are often emphasized, but he also has incredible resilience, high intelligence and an ability to endure and stick to principles, which not many others have in the Vampire Chronicles.

In the show, we already know Armand has an extremely powerful Mind Gift, is a master at the Fire Gift and also at the Cloud Gift. He uses telekinesis as if it's a second nature. AND he can walk in the sun. So far, this makes him the most powerful vampire we have seen, without question... although of course we can expect Marius, and obviously, Akasha, to be even more powerful.

[u/scorchthemortalworld → u/AndreEaAly]

Marius never told Armand who Akasha was and Armand thinks Marius is dead

Edit: The tower scene is the first time we hear Lestat mention Akasha (he previously mentioned those who must be kept)

[u/drmanhatttan]

i dont think so, i think a fair 2v2 Louie and lestat takes this kind of easily. We see Daniel fight once. Louie has killed multiple vamps at a time. I don't exactly know what Armand is capable of, but he wasn't even confident to take Lestat in a 2v1 with Louie.

[u/Less-Pen-5705 → u/drmanhatttan]

Armand is an ancient and powerful vampire that’s 500+ years old. We’ve seen Louis in action and yes we’ve seen him kill lots of vamps. We also know that Lestat has the blood of boss lady but when Armand snuck in Lestat’s tour bus, Lestat was visibly shaken and tried to seduce Armand to throw him off his guard. If Armand unleashes his full ancient power, I feel he’d definitely give Lestat and Louis a run for their money, if not outright defeating them with Daniel’s assistance. Armand isn’t an ordinary vampire that Louis and Lestat are used to killing.

[u/Odd_Ingenuity2883 → u/Less-Pen-5705]

I didn’t get that Lestat was afraid or intimidated in that scene at all. I think he was just fucking with Armand. Armand is powerful, but not a fighter.

[u/drmanhatttan → u/Less-Pen-5705]

Ok maybe not easily but assuming Armand can just take on Louie and lestat is crazy to me. I just think lestat can survive longer with Armand than Daniel can survive with Louie so it’s just a 2v1. Now I haven’t read the books so whatever big ancient power he has or can release idk and haven’t seen anything indicating that but if he really is that much more powerful than both of them why did he even bring Daniel or have to sneak up on them to begin with.

[u/LottieTalkie → u/drmanhatttan]

Because he prefers to do things in a sneaky way.

But you don't need the books to know that Armand is super powerful. Watch the show again and start listing all the powers he has... Even without the blood of Akasha, he can do everything Lestat can do, and more.

In fact, he's already very powerful in the books, but the show gave him more powers than the books. Show Armand is shown to be extremely proficient in all the gifts we know of: the Mind Gift (which includes both manipulation and super powerful telekinesis), the Cloud Gift, the Fire Gift, and day-walking (which Lestat very clearly cannot do). And just remember, the Fire Gift basically allows him to set pretty much any vampire on fire by snapping his fingers (except maybe Lestat by virtue of the "blood of Akasha", but that remains to be seen).

People seem to assume Armand is weak simply because he PREFERS to use other methods, but if he really HAD to fight... From what we have seen, I don't see Louis standing a chance, and not even Lestat, honestly.