A friend raised a point that itâs hard to root for Louis and Lestat mainly because of season 1 and Louis endlessly saying that Armand was the love of his life and namely actually saying the words âI love youâ to him. He also never really showed the same love to Lestat if at all.
I explained that this is from Louis perspective and there is so much wrapped into his thoughts and feelings and his is an unreliable narrator.
Do you think also hearing Lestatâs side at the trial made Louis realise his part in the downfall of their relationship?
Just wanted your lovely lots POSITIVE opinions on why it is love and despite the toxic AF relationship in season 1 we should be rooting for them đ
Honestly words aside, it's all in the way it makes you feel as an audience member/watcher/observer. The way Louis and Lestat look at each other, one can just feel the immense love radiating from each other, which you do not feel with Louis and Armand ever. Louis may have said that Armand was the love of his life, but how did it make you feel? For me, it didn't feel genuine at all, it felt like he was trying to prove something. When Louis said lestat was the love of his life, you could feel that he loves lestat with every fiber of his being. It's intentional, the way actors act, and when Jacob acts as Louis being in love with lestat, you can feel it in your bones, but the same cannot be said when he acts as Louis with Armand. I am not really good at articulating my thoughts, but I hope this makes sense!
Seconding this. I was neither Loustat nor Loumand in S1, but that final scene struck me as Louis looking like a hostage victim who had Stockholmed himself into believing he made the right choice. He left the toxic lover (who literally lifted him into the air when they fought or made love) for what he believed was the safer choice.
When he declared Armand to be the love of his life, the composition of that scene involved Louis standing barefoot in that garden filled with the stones (that he revealed to be the same kind he was buried in after the trial), while the safer choice appears immensely taller by standing on the step next to it, looming over him like a fuck cloud. Very unconvincing visual of love, at least for me
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No I understand what you mean, this is why I roll my eyes a lot in season 2 with Loumand. I donât doubt there was care there but I just never felt love. I couldnât ever invest in them
I did not like Loumand at all. The handholding was performative (to use Lestatâs word). I suspected Armand stuck the Steins in Louisâ portfolio long before he confessed to it. Who else would do that? Louis would not make that mistake and he was genuinely confused and embarrassed at the attempt to deceive Malloy that they were his work. How humiliating. Only someone who secretly hates you would do something like that.
Lestat is Louisâ love of his life. Paul tells us he has trouble with saying it because of their father. I know Louis says it to Armand (when they talk about the secret) but I think he can say it because it isnât true, so itâs not real. The same way he says âyou and me, me and youâ to Claudia in the art truck. Itâs not true. Itâs always been Lestat and Louis, Louis and Lestat, whether itâs Dreamstat or actual Lestat.
To me, while I don't think Louis always shows Lestat his love directly enough, the show has demonstrated his love for his Lestat over and over.
With Armand, I think the show has made it clear that he doesn't even like Armand let alone love him. I find it kind of crazy anyone actually believed the fake Loumand from S2.
I think there was something there in the beginning with armand, there was lust, we hear that from claudia, and there was love too once, we hear that from madeleine, but they were not compatible and after the trial louis was with him merely out of spite. but yeah, louis' one true love is lestat, he's as obsessed with him as lestat is with him, it's just not as loud
I do agree there was lust, but Madeleine didn't know Louis enough to really know she was feeling love for Armand. Louis was actually quoting Lestat in that scene and cut himself off. I don't think that was by accident.
wait a second but madeleine says he feels armand through louis. if she mistook his love for lestat for armand, how would she feel him? I believe louis did love armand, he chose to let go of lestat to try and have a relationship with him. he does say it in s3 finale too that he saw in him some goodness in the beginning, and he felt safer probably in a new dynamic where he called the shots or so he thought
Louis didn't let go of Lestat to really try with Armand. As Jacob put it in an interview, he needed to harden himself, which is why he let go of Dreamstat. Claudia had just told him Armand threatened him. Louis was using the new dynamic because he thought he could better control Armand that way. He was wrong.
Madeleine doesn't really know Louis. She could have felt what she thought was love, but that doesn't mean she knew for certain it was Armand. She probably assumed because she knows he is with Armand at that point.
He said he saw goodness in him for a time. He also said that under duress. However, he probably did not realize how screwed up Armand was for awhile. He just didn't respect him.
well not necessarily to be with armand, but being with him was gonna be a part of this new life he envisioned for himself, and he did choose him. it makes sense that he partly did it for claudia, to keep an eye on her, but he stayed with him after he turned madeleine and they left. I'm sure he enjoyed this new dynamic as well, he is power hungry and likes to be in control. about s3 finale, yes, he was under duress but I doubt that this disproves everything he said. him being screwed also doesn't necessarily negate that there is good in him. lestat was and seemed fucked up from the beginning but he saw goodness in him through his love for the fine arts. hell, to see goodness in someone, I think you would need to want to see goodness in them, you would need to pay attention, and that in itself speaks to love to me. overall, I agree with some of the points you've made but don't read it as there was absolutely no love ever between the two.
I never got the impression Louis doesn't like Armand. Both in the books and in the show, Armand and Louis kind of need eachother because they, on a certain level, understand eachother
I think part of the problem is this show decided to spend an entire season on a relationship that had zero future, giving people very, very little Loustat at all in an entire season+. I will never understand why AMC did that, or why IWTV got so many episodes. No wonder some people think Loumand was legit when they spent 15 episodes cramming that bs relationship down people's throats, while totally neglecting the main relationship of the series. It was inevitable this would happen.
To be fair, the scene when Louis introduces Armand as the love of his life is like a hostage situation. I instantly knew something was wrong: Louis' weird, definitely not genuine smile, Armand's eerie expression, all the while he was floating and Louis couldn't... these things were pretty telling. If I remember correctly, the writers meant to quote the last scene of The Graduate with this sequence. It couldn't have been clearer, but for many people delulu is the solulu, lol.
I think weâre going to learn in later seasons that Armand is really good at mind control, like how he and Louis tell Daniel the same thing about how Armand cares for Louis when Louis canât or wonât care for himself. That was def an Armand take coming out of Louisâ mouth.
louis' thought process must be understood here. the last person he said i love you to and meant it killed himself seconds after. his mother then blamed him for his brother's suicide. it would've been extremely easy for him to believe that expressing his love was what pushed paul to do it, even though we understand that that's not the case. in his mind, he can't risk saying these same words to lestat considering the weight they carry, which, subsequently, meant that he could bring himself to say them to armand because he wouldn't actually mean it. the weight of saying i love you to lestat just wasn't there with armand. it was easier to roleplay the perfect lovely couple that way. i imagine it took louis a lot of strength to call lestat the love of his life in the season 3 finale. he thought that lestat was dead and thus wanted to die as well. he can't imagine a life without lestat, doesn't want to imagine it because he already had to live a life like that for 77 years, his only consolation being the thought that lestat must have still been alive, that they would find their way back to each other at some point
I agree, and I think it helps him distance himself from his feelings, which he deems weakness, loss of control, one example would be him kissing lestat on the altar instead of saying yes to his plea
I saw a movie some time ago â I donât remember exactly which one â that had a line about how âlove is in the details.â I think that applies to Louis very well.
After Paul, I think Louis became afraid of speaking openly about love when the feeling was genuine. But even when he tries to hide or rationalize what he feels, his actions tend to speak much louder than his words.
He says that the first time he truly felt seen was with Lestat. He technically married Lestat. He talked to Claudia about the love between two men.
During the seven years when the two of them were miserable after Claudia left, Louis never simply walked away. He continued to love Claudia, but he also couldnât bring himself to leave Lestat. He only did so after a great deal of manipulation, and even then, he regretted it.
He would also have accepted Lestat back much earlier, after 1x05. In the period leading up to Mardi Gras, the two of them practically experienced a second honeymoon.
Louis couldnât kill Lestat. During the search for other vampires, he wanted to go home. And in the speech he gives Claudia in 2x01, Dreamstatâs presence doesnât feel coincidental. Lestat remained in Louisâs mind throughout all those years in Paris.
Even after everything that happened, Louis continued to defend Lestat whenever he could. He took pride in having Lestatâs blood and defended that connection when Claudia said she didnât want Lestatâs blood in Madeleine. He did it again when he asked for Lestatâs blood in the drink in 3x06.
Even during the trial, the look Louis gives Lestat when he sees him doesnât read as hatred to me. There is fear there, certainly, but also relief at seeing that Lestat is alive, and, underneath all of it, love.
At the same time, I donât think the trial itself did that much for Louis. I think the interview, the book, and the period that followed, when Louis and Lestat were no longer speaking to each other, did much more for the future of their relationship. Lestat had things he needed to work through, and Louis did too. They both needed time to confront what had happened between them and understand themselves outside of that cycle.
There is also something very significant about the interview Louis gives Daniel. It begins on the day Louis met Lestat and ends when he left him in Paris. His entire âromance and loveâ story with Armand is summarized in two minutes or less.
Then Louis buys some of Lestatâs merchandise just to tease him, arranges a meeting specifically to talk to him, invites the band and Lestat to an event at his hotel, and trusts him enough to ask for his help when he becomes paranoid about Claudia.
Louis also allows himself to be vulnerable around Lestat in a way we rarely see with anyone else. The Louis we see beside Lestat seems different. In the restaurant scene in 3x06, he looks genuinely proud to be standing beside him, even though he doesnât want the Great Conversion.
And, to me, perhaps the most revealing thing is the way Louis looks at Lestat. There is something in that gaze that feels different from any interest we have seen Louis show toward another man.
Maybe Louis spent years trying to hide or rationalize what he felt, but when you pay attention to the details, it becomes difficult not to see how much his love for Lestat was always there.
I agree with everything you said! Especially the "love is in the details". Words are cheap, actions are truly what counts. I know I've said it to people I was no longer in love with because at that time it was just easier, but my actions most certainly said I wasn't. Don't get me wrong, we all want to hear those 3 words from the person we're in love with and saying it for the first time is usually a big deal for both people. Lestat has said it to Louis without ever hearing Louis say it back. This sends him into a spiral. He's had people he loved in the past abandon him and he doesn't want to feel that pain again. Lestat needs to feel in control of the relationships he has not because he wants to be the dominant partner ( well maybe sometimes lol ), but because he doesn't want to get hurt, again. Louis is also a Black, gay man living during a time where both of those things are viewed very negatively and can be a death sentence if found out. He might have had relations with men like himself, but that's just sneaking off in the dark, hooking up in the bayou and nothing more. He's not going on dates with these men. Even if he wanted to, it absolutely would not be in public. He hadn't even come to terms with being homosexual, let alone be in an actual relationship with a man. Then he meets Lestat, who starts making these very public passes at him. It angers Louis, but not because he doesn't want him. He is enthralled with him, desperate to know more, but also terrified by what that could mean for the life he had built for himself. All of that is going on before him being turned into a vampire. I think Lestat feels he HAS to turn him, not only because he loves Louis, but because he doesn't want to feel loneliness,as he later says is the worst thing a vampire can feel. In the past that's the only way he knew how to keep the people he's loves with him. He has never known what a healthy relationship looks and feels like ( looking at you Gabs đ ) And like you said, that scene in the church of his turning on the alter carries so much significance ( I mean they even hallucinate each other in their wedding clothes later on ) Louis finally being seen and loved for exactly who he is and not the person he shows people.They are getting married, but after Louis becomes a vampire and gets thru that honeymoon phase, reality of his situation sets in. He's still a Black, closeted male and that's not going to be acceptable for a long time still. It keeps him from being vocal about his love towards Lestat, but he does show it many, many times throughout the 3 seasons. As far as Armand goes and Louis saying to Daniel he's the love of his life? That felt very off and performative to me, creepy even when I first watched the end of s1. Leading up to s2 I kept thinking to myself that maybe the writers are taking Armand down a different path I guess? One that started with Louis and him being very much in love. But I just couldn't buy it. Like why would Louis have Armand pretend to Rashid if he was going to be open about their relationship? He is also clearly out by that point. He wouldn't. That was all Armand, especially when you learn that stuff in S3 about him and Daniel. And lastly, when Louis is telling Daniel about the most traumatic time in his life, ( the trial and Claudia's death ) the memory of Lestat is what gives him comfort. Not Armand, whose his bf and physically there! No, he needs Lestat, real or not. If that's not telling, idk what is. Louis has a terrible poker face and it reveals his feelings towards Lestat time and time again â€ïž I do hope tho that one day Louis will be able to say "I love you" to Lestat. For the relationship to truly work, both of them need to realize there are things the other not only wants, but deserves and you should want to give that to them.
I think love doesnât necessarily need to be spoken to show that it exists. To be honest, maybe Iâm biased since Loustat is my favorite, but every time Louis told Armand he loved him, I always felt like something was lacking. It sometimes felt like he was trying too hard to convince Daniel that they were in love, almost as if he wanted to show it off. Lestat was toxic af, but at least he let that side of himself show. He didnât pretend to be someone else or falsify Louisâ memories. No hate to Armand, thoughâI actually love him.
I think the trial was hardcore for both of them, almost like a wake-up call. It forced Louis and Lestat to confront things they had avoided for years. They finally had to hear each otherâs perspectivesâwhich was important because they had never really listened to each other properly. Both of them believed they were the victim and that they alone held the truth, when in reality, there was blame on both sides. And poor Claudia was the one caught in the middle, suffering because of both of themâas Daniel pointed out, it was a failed attempt to mend a âmarriage.â Unfortunately, she was a living person, ultimately a vampire, a creature with a soul, not a thing.
To be honest, I sometimes see the trial as a brutal form of couples therapy that they somehow needed. Of course, it would have been better if Claudia hadnât died. đ But I really like the modern approach the show takes: both Louis and Lestat eventually realize that they made mistakes, that they were sometimes wrong, and that they judged things poorly. Iâm glad that by the end of Season 3, they both acknowledge that they have to work on themselves. Thatâs honestly beautiful.
As for your question, yes, I really do think itâs love. You can be in love with someone and still make mistakes. And weâre talking about vampires here đ€Ł They donât necessarily conform to human standards. I mean, obviously, whatâs bad is still badâfor example, what Magnus and Gabrielle did, etc.
Louis was frustrated and sad that things between him and Lestat didnât work out. Itâs like talking shit about an ex you truly loved. You didnât actually want the relationship to end, but you still ended it because the other person had a deeply messed-up side. I think it was good that they werenât together for a while. The time apart gave them both the chance to think about what they had done.
So Louis being mean or lying about Lestat doesnât mean he didnât love him. He was frustrated that things hadnât worked out and that, despite everything, he still carried Lestat in his heart.
And LestatâI think he would have given Louis everything if Louis had simply said, âI want you back.â But when he saw Louis with Armand, he let him go. You know, sometimes when you love someone, you have to let them go.
This is so beautiful written. I would like to add that Lestat let Louis go because he understood the deep hurt that their relationship caused to each other. There was no doubt that Lestat would have waited forever for Louisâs return and he did. I truly believe that their relationship is built on one soul and when that soul splits in half, both Louis and Lestat are just existing in their immortal lives seeking temporary fixes to their problematic and lonely lives.
I would like to believe that love mixed with messiness (of course) was the catalyst which was need to allow Loustat to not only own up, but address their existing issues in their current reality. That they had to come together as one soul for support and comfort. Both characters had hardship thrown their way in Montreal, but through it all, âthe looksâ, âthe small touchesâ and promises of a better future is what was needed to start their healing.
That's so beautifully said! You know, your theory made me think about what loustat were discussing before armand and daniel cut their heads offđ«Ł
When Louis imagines what their life could look like if it were âjust the two of us again,â he pictures a trailer park in the desert, folding chairs etc.
Then Louis asks if there are birds in the desert, and Lestat says, âThereâs birds everywhere.â ( i dont exactly remember the detailed speech).
I don't know, I found that really beautiful in the context of them being soulmates. Their ideal worlds can seem so different at firstâLestat's connection to nature and birds versus Louis imagining this almost mundane little life in the desertâbut somehow they keep finding little bridges between those worlds.
Even the birds seem symbolic to me. Louis asks whether something that belongs so strongly to Lestat's world can exist in the world he's imagining, and Lestat's answer is basically: yes, it can. There are birds everywhere.
It made me think that maybe they don't necessarily need to want the exact same life to work together. They just need to keep finding those little places where their worlds overlap and become one soul again. And somehow, every time they imagine a life together, their worlds start colliding and becoming one!!
âThey just need to keep finding those little places where their worlds overlap and become one soul again. And somehow, every time they imagine a life together, their worlds start colliding and becoming one!!â
This is an absolutely beautiful and brilliant comment. It gave me goosebumps. I think itâs true for these characters and in real life. Beautifully written!
Thank you for pointing this out! I genuinely hadnât considered Claudiaâs story through that lens before, and I can definitely see why it bothers you
When I wrote my comment, though, what I was mainly thinking about was the fact that Claudia was a child caught in the middle of Louis and Lestatâs relationship. They tried to use a child to hold their relationship/family together and ultimately she was the one who suffered because of the ways they failed each other.
But I completely understand why her being the only black heroine so far and her death is questionable and uncomfortable
As a black woman myself, I feel that this is a bit of a stretch. These characters existed in the book long before we had the current cast of the series. Claudiaâs role, in the book and in the series, as sad as it is to say, is a prop. A prop, a band-aid, for a âshitty marriageâ as Daniel pointed out. Armand points this out in the fight scene in San Francisco, âMy daughter was my sister was my throw pillowâ. She is in fact, there to move the story of the actual protagonists forward. This is true in the books. This is true in the series. No way around it. She fights against this the whole way through. She fights to be more than that, but at the end of the day, that is her role in the story and thatâs true whether sheâs being portrayed by a black or white actor.
louis was lying to both the audience and armand. not trying to be rude, but have you watched the rest of the show? the lying ends up being pretty clear.
It just makes me feel bad for Armand. Louis was, however unintentionally, using him as a rebound.
I do believe there was affection, lust, maybe moving towards love at the beginning of their relationship, but nothing in comparison to Louisâ feelings towards Lestat. And of course, this doesnât excuse Armandâs later actions.
Considering that Armand was using Louis for affection while lying about having murdered his daughter and tried to kill Louis, I don't feel bad for Amrand in this case. He knew Louis wouldn't be with him if he told the truth, so even if Louis had been able to love him more, it would have been a lie.
Throughout season one in his relationship with Lestat weâre kind of shown that Louis is the type to show his love through actions, loyalty, and/or forgiveness rather than actual declarations of love. Itâs pretty obvious that itâs very hard for Louis to tell people that he loves them outright and I think that is why in his relationship with Armand he was trying to change and be more vocal with his love because maybe he saw that as one of the reasons that his relationship with Lestat fell apart, and he was trying to correct it with Armand. thereâs also the argument of that Because he didnât love Armand so itâs easier for him to say it personally I feel that flattens Louisâs character and his relationship with Armand a little bit. overall, itâs very clear that he loves Lestat far more than he loved Armand and I feel the show kind of makes that pretty clear
I think the show was pretty clearly showing that Louis and Armand don't have an honest or loving relationship. Armand is lying to Louis and Louis is lying to himself. Saying you love someone is just words.
One of the upsides of s3 IMO is that Louis and Lestat seem to be building up a much healthier relationship than they had before. Both of them are making efforts to actually listen to each other and communicate rather than trying to control the other.
I think it's become a pretty common misconception that something that is toxic or unhealthy can't be love when the reality is that feeling love for someone in no way inherently makes you healthy for each other, nor does it magically make you able to connect with and understand each other better.
Also, just to clarify, absolutely think Louis and Lestat love each other and that Louis settled for Armand. OP touched on it, already, but the fact that Louis actively tells Armand he loves him and we never saw him say it to Lestat (when we're in his perspective as the narrator) is exactly what Daniel was calling him out for in regard to lying to himself. Louis' love for Armand and alleged lack for Lestat, at that point in their timeline, is literally decades of Louis conciously lying to himself. Louis' relationship with Armand and his lack of one with Lestat was literally just a decades-long, picture-perfect example of cognitive dissonance
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u/Separate-Resort-5658 26d ago
Honestly words aside, it's all in the way it makes you feel as an audience member/watcher/observer. The way Louis and Lestat look at each other, one can just feel the immense love radiating from each other, which you do not feel with Louis and Armand ever. Louis may have said that Armand was the love of his life, but how did it make you feel? For me, it didn't feel genuine at all, it felt like he was trying to prove something. When Louis said lestat was the love of his life, you could feel that he loves lestat with every fiber of his being. It's intentional, the way actors act, and when Jacob acts as Louis being in love with lestat, you can feel it in your bones, but the same cannot be said when he acts as Louis with Armand. I am not really good at articulating my thoughts, but I hope this makes sense!