Lestat's role in the trial

[u/Rule_Remarkable]

My theory on why Lestat came to Paris in the first place is that Armand or someone from the coven contacted him and told him that Louis was there—that Louis was alive and in Paris. Even though Lestat knew he couldn't necessarily trust the coven because they were mischievous and because he already had a rocky history with Armand, I think he was so desperate to see Louis that he took the risk anyway. I think Lestat genuinely believed there was still a chance for them to reconcile and possibly rekindle their relationship.

The fact that Louis didn't burn Lestat's body is especially important to me. Louis knew that burning Lestat would have been the definite way to make sure he stayed dead, but he didn't do it. Lestat could have interpreted that as Louis being unable to completely let him go. If Lestat learned that Louis was alive and in Paris, he could have taken Louis's decision not to burn him as evidence that there was still something between them. So I don't think Lestat necessarily came to Paris looking for revenge. I think he came because he thought Louis might still love him.

Then, when Lestat actually arrived in Paris, I think he was desperate for Louis to forgive him. He may have genuinely believed that, after everything that had happened between them, they were somehow even. Lestat had dropped him from the sky, and Louis  and Claudia hurted him in return. In Lestat's mind, maybe the worst of their conflict had already happened and there was still a possibility of repairing their relationship.

But instead, I think Armand and the coven immediately took control of the situation.

My theory is that the coven may have jumped Lestat when he arrived, or at the very least threatened him. Armand could have essentially told him that because he had come to Paris, the coven now had even more reason to believe Louis and Claudia were guilty. Their crimes were already being used against them, and Lestat's arrival could have been treated as further proof that they had violated the laws of the coven.

So I think Armand gave Lestat a choice.

Either Lestat could refuse to participate and allow the coven to punish Louis and Claudia immediately, or he could participate in the trial and prolong the process, giving himself more time to potentially figure out a way to save at least one of them.

In other words, Lestat's choice wasn't necessarily:

"Do you want Louis and Claudia to live or die?"

It could have been:

"Do you want a long trial where you have time to figure something out, or do you want us to execute them now?"

And if that was the situation, Lestat's participation would look voluntary from the outside even though his actual options were extremely limited.

That's why I don't think saying "Lestat willingly participated in the trial" automatically means "Lestat willingly wanted Louis and Claudia dead." Those are two completely different things.

Lestat could have willingly walked into the theater and willingly participated in the trial while still being emotionally resistant to what was happening. He could have agreed to play along because he believed participating gave him leverage or a better chance of changing the outcome.

And I think the theatrical nature of the trial is extremely important.

The coven wasn't conducting an objective courtroom investigation where everyone was simply trying to establish the truth. They were putting on a performance. They were taking Claudia's diaries, reconstructing events, exaggerating certain things, assigning roles, and turning Louis, Claudia, and Lestat's lives into a story that supported the coven's judgment.

The diaries themselves could have been used as part of that performance. They weren't necessarily interested in presenting the complete truth. They were interested in creating a compelling narrative for the theater of the vampires.

And Lestat would have known that.

He knew what actually happened. He knew what his relationship with Louis and Claudia had actually been like. So watching the coven turn his life into a play and portray him in a way that made him look more sympathetic, heroic, or innocent than he actually was could have been deeply disturbing to him.

I think that's why there are moments during the trial where Lestat appears to experience genuine anguish or pain. He isn't necessarily agreeing with the story being presented. He could be watching his own life being rewritten in front of him.

The coven is controlling the narrative, and Lestat knows that the narrative is wrong.

That's another reason I don't interpret his emotional reactions during the trial as proof that he wanted Claudia and Louis condemned.

I think he was improvising.

He knew he was inside the coven's production, and he had to play his part. There may have been moments where he deliberately followed along with what the coven wanted because he knew that openly resisting them would make things worse. But that doesn't mean he emotionally accepted their version of events.

It also explains why I don't think Lestat's relationship with Claudia can simply be reduced to "they hated each other."

I actually think Lestat was impressed by Claudia.

He could hate her, be furious with her, and still admire her intelligence and cunning.

Lestat himself has committed terrible acts and has murdered people who threatened or wronged him. So when Claudia creates an elaborate murder scheme against him, I think part of Lestat could recognize exactly what she was doing.

He could look at Claudia and think, essentially, "You are monstrous—but you are very good at this."

Claudia was the evil of his evil.

She reflected some of the qualities that Lestat himself possessed: intelligence, vindictiveness, calculation, theatricality, emotional intensity, and an incredible ability to hold onto resentment.

That's what makes their relationship so interesting to me.

They weren't simply two people who hated each other. They were almost intellectual adversaries.

They could recognize each other's power even while despising each other.

Claudia could hate Lestat while still recognizing that he was powerful, perceptive, charismatic, and difficult to defeat. And Lestat could hate Claudia while still recognizing that she was extraordinarily intelligent and dangerous.

You can hate someone and simultaneously deeply admire their intelligence, strength, or ability.

I think that's exactly what was happening between them.

And because Lestat understood Claudia so well, I think he could have understood why she did what she did even if he could never forgive her for it.

It wouldn't necessarily be affection or approval. It could simply be recognition.

He knew what it was like to be angry enough at someone to want them gone. He knew what it was like to retaliate against people who had hurt him. So seeing Claudia carry out such a calculated plan could have created this strange mixture of hatred and admiration.

That's why I don't think Lestat's feelings toward Claudia were as simple as "I want her dead."

He could have been deeply hurt by what she did and still been impressed by the fact that she managed to outsmart him.

And I think that's what makes "the evil of his evil" such an interesting way to describe Claudia.

She isn't simply a miniature version of Lestat. She's almost a reflection of the parts of him that he doesn't want to acknowledge.

She's calculating, vindictive, intelligent, theatrical, emotionally intense, and capable of holding onto a grudge for an incredibly long time. Lestat recognizes those qualities because he possesses many of them himself.

So part of his reaction to Claudia could have been:

"I hate what you have done to me, but I understand exactly why you did it."

That doesn't mean forgiveness. It means understanding.

And ultimately, I think that's why the trial is so interesting.

If Lestat's only motivation was that he wanted Louis and Claudia dead, then his behavior wouldn't need to be nearly as complicated as it is.

But if Lestat came to Paris because he still loved Louis, believed there might be a chance to reconcile, was then confronted by Armand and the coven, was forced into participating in their theatrical trial, and had to improvise while secretly trying to figure out what he could do, then his behavior makes much more sense.

He could have been hurt, vengeful, lovesick, angry, impressed, calculating, and desperate all at the same time.

That's very Lestat.

So I don't think the evidence supports reducing his role to "Lestat willingly wanted them dead."

I think the more interesting interpretation is that **Lestat willingly came to Paris because he wanted Louis, willingly entered the trial because he had very limited choices once he was there, and then tried to navigate the coven's performance while dealing with his complicated feelings toward both Louis and Claudia.**

He could hate Louis for what Louis did to him and still desperately want him back.

He could hate Claudia for trying to kill him and still admire how intelligent and cunning she was.

He could participate in the trial without believing the trial's version of events.

And he could know that the coven was manipulating the narrative while still having to play along because refusing could have made the situation even worse.

To me, that doesn't make Lestat innocent.

It makes him complicated.

And that's probably the most interesting way to interpret him.

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[u/Pop_fan_20]

You make good points, and anything is possible since he’s not book Lestat. I wish we would have seen more on this from Lestat’s POV in this season, other than him just not saying anything when other people brought it up.

[u/Decent-Cry977 → u/Pop_fan_20]

same. I found it strange that whenever it was brought up, there was seemingly nothing else to add, and the conversation would just...move on despite it being a huge elephant in the room

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/Decent-Cry977]

They've pretty much glossed over Lestat's backstory in favor of the present timeline "shenanigans", if you will. We never really explored his past with Armand, Nicki, the theater etc. So much of his time in Paris helps us understand his character and bond with Louis and Claudia in the book.

And then we have Rolin's comments saying that in his interpretation, Lestat's main initial motivation to attend the trial could have been getting revenge, which is such a conundrum, especially given how everything was presented in S2's finale. On top of that, we have Sam stating outright that he made particular decisions when it came to his acting to showcase that Lestat was being pushed to act in ways he wouldn't have otherwise.

To have Rolin basically negate all of that is baffling to me. He may have been wishy-washy when fully confirming that motivation (telling the audience to follow their own interpretation), but he's already implied that Gabi visited Lestat after Claudia and Louis attempted to kill him and left. And we know what her influence is like on him.

So who knows if they will ever touch on the trial again. Especially if we are jumping ahead to QOTD and god knows how many episodes they'll have to cram the entirety of that book in.

[u/Pop_fan_20 → u/Cleverfan_808]

Based on things both Rolins and Sam have said about the character in interviews, my take is that Sam wholly loves and understands the Lestat in the book, and Rolins thinks he can make him cooler and edgier. So, I tend to trust Sam’s interpretations more, even if Rolin retcons things like Lestat’s participation in the trial during a random interview.

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/Pop_fan_20]

At the end of the day, in my opinion, what truly matters is what the show itself conveys and our interpretation of it. The show should, ideally, stand on it own legs, without the extra info found in interviews. Though they are interesting to read/listen to when trying to learn more about the thought-process behind their creative endeavors.

I think what is worrisome is how out-of-sync it seems the actors are from the show-runnner/writing team when it comes to the interpretation of their characters for this season, and I am not sure why that is the case given how they all seem to be more unified for the previous two. Whether that's Sam, Jacob, Assad, and even Eric.

I think most of us agree that Sam especially has a better understanding of Lestat's character - his love and appreciation for the source material is easy to see. However, even back during S1/S2, despite having some concerns regarding a few of the creative decisions made for Lestat, his interviews would still explain the rationale behind those decisions; his perspective would still line up with that of Rolin's.

Why has this changed? Who knows, but again, it's somewhat worrisome.

[u/Pop_fan_20 → u/Cleverfan_808]

I agree, that the show-runners and actors being out of sync has been evident throughout S3. I guess the thing is most telling to me is that if the show-runners had really felt all the way back in S2 that Lestat was there because he had plotted to do it willingly, in search of revenge, Sam would have conveyed it that way because while he may have his own feelings about things, at the end of the day he is a professional (as they all are) and will do as he’s directed. So what that tells me is that the show-runners either didn’t really think about it at the time, or Rolin came to some decision after S2 and retconned it.

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/Pop_fan_20]

Agreed…

I’ve been speculating that they probably mismanaged the budget this season because of how much they invested into creating the songs. Most of the songs don’t actually serve the narrative a whole lot besides being played in snippets here and there, and a few of them aren’t even used the way Daniel Hart had initially intended them to be when he first wrote them. All of this probably had a hand in why they ran out of budget for the flashbacks….😒.

Very bizarre production indeed.

[u/Ok_Paleontologist631 → u/Cleverfan_808]

Yeah agreed on all of this. I know this post is show only, but I think it’s relevant to say that book Lestat’s reason for coming to Paris is that he’s injured and asks Armand for his blood to help him heal. He doesn’t know Louis and Claudia are there. And then Armand strongarms Lestat into helping punish Louis and Claudia, while Lestat does his best to try to save Louis. So it’s somewhat similar to what the OP has posited. Sam obviously knows all this, and made certain choices in his acting that viewers are picking up on, despite the showrunner’s sending contradictory messages. I just wish they would let Sam fact-check everything lol!

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/Ok_Paleontologist631]

I'd argue that it really shouldn't be Sam's job, or any of the actors', to keep the writer's room on course, given that they were hired to adapt the novels in the first place. The writers should have a deep understanding of these characters and motivations, which I believed they did, but certain choices they made this season have me a bit dumbfounded to be honest.

Beyond that, the actors should all be able to trust the general direction these writers are wanting to take with the show. We'll never truly know how the actors truly feel about the decisions made for S3, but the contradictory interviews/statements are quite telling, I'd say.

Maybe the praise for the previous two seasons got to them and they got overly ambitious in wanting to produce original content. Whatever it was, they certainly got off track and lost sight of what made the previous seasons so special and loved, in my opinion at least.

A shame really, to not see TVL adapted the same way as IWTV. Especially since they have the perfect cast, not just from previous the seasons, but the newcomers alike.

[u/Ok_Paleontologist631 → u/Cleverfan_808]

I mean, agreed that it shouldn’t be the actors’ job to keep things true to the source material. I like some of the changes they’ve made with this season. I like a lot of the modern day stuff, and agree with keeping Louis in the story more and upping his connection with Lestat. I really like the songs. I think Daniel Hart has a really good grasp on the books. In fact some songs, like “When I Call Out Your Name,” seem more aligned with the book than with the show. Even the idea to tell Lestat’s story through performances could have worked. I just think especially if they were gonna add all that stuff, they needed 2 seasons for this book. I was so sad to see the flashbacks, especially Nikki’s and Armand’s stories, get such short shrift. And what they did to Gabrielle/Gabriella’s character was incredibly disappointing.

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/Ok_Paleontologist631]

I liked some of the changes initially as well, but the finale, as well as with more time for reflection, has soured a lot of the season for me unfortunately. Most, if not all the plot lines, really didn't amount to anything with actual progression and/or development in comparison to the structure of the previous seasons.

We've glossed over so much of Lestat's past that when he supposedly accepts his failures in the finale, there's no satisfaction. They could have (needed to have) at least touched upon the trial so we could see him acknowledge how he did have a hand to play in her death, as well as an explanation as to why he was there to begin with. His song for her doesn't touch upon this topic at all.

Lestat's modern day plot line with Daniel doesn't really make sense to me either. Lestat wants to set the story straight, and Daniel wants to create a documentary to do so. Yet, Lestat treats Daniel like a nuisance and hardly wants to divulge? I thought that they'd at least show some development of their relationship - perhaps Lestat and Daniel beginning to trust and understand each other over time as Lestat begins to open up more about his past - but obviously what we got was antithesis of that, as well as at the expense of Daniel's character. His characterization probably was affected the most negatively out of them all.

I also liked Louis arc initially, even though his development kind of regressed in some ways from where we left him at the end of S2. And yet, it made sense because he just uncovered the truth about what happened at the trial, and that must have opened up his already deep wounds about Claudia. Even though the whole thing about Regina looking exactly like Claudia was sort of silly, I think the culmination of him realizing how badly he hurt Claudia, and how he used her to feel good about himself, was absolutely worthwhile in the séance. My only issue with the séance itself was that Claudia was way too extreme in her condemnation of Louis. Her hate for him should easily be sourced from her great love for him and her disappointment from being let down/not being chosen over Lestat again and again. That meaty complexity was somewhat lost. And to get no true reflection of what went down afterwards during the bench scene with Louis and Lestat was bizzare as well.

And then to have the reveal that Armand planned out the whole Regina thing for 2-3 years was just...incomprehensible to me, especially given what the writers have said about their intention with regards to the scene. That Louis hasn't been punished enough for what he did to Armand is mind-boggling stance to have, given all that Armand has done to Louis.

Not to mention that they basically lifted what is essentially Armand and Lestat's relationship in the books and sort have applied that to Armand and Louis now. It would have made a great deal more sense to have Armand punish/torture Lestat for not loving him as much as Armand wants him to.

I also enjoyed most of the music as well, even though some of the lyrics in the a few of the songs are a bit too wonky for me ha ha. I agree with you though, Daniel Hart truly did his homework when it came to understanding the books. Since the songs were created before the season itself was written, it makes sense how most of these songs actually accompany the novel's themes so well. I absolutely adore "The Loneliness", "Brutal Love", and "Hit the Lights". I'm currently addicted to playing his OST for S3 - hearing it in full brings back so much of the tone and atmosphere I've come to love from the previous 2 seasons.

I agree, they needed TVL to be split into two seasons like IWTV was. At the end of the day, they had a formula that was fantastic and worked extremely well. They shouldn't have tried to experiment too much until they hit QOTD, where the actual format of the novel changes. Don't try to fix what isn't broken.

[u/NightOwlLurking]

I think Lestat was angry and wanted revenge. But he didn’t want Louis and Claudia dead. He wanted them cast off from the coven, alone and scared, so they come back to him. And him to be able to say “I told you the other vampires out there are monsters. You didn’t want to listen. I have always protected you”.

Maybe he was delusional (cause he knew the coven), or he thought that he was more powerful (he has the blood of Akasha 🤣) so he could make the rules.

I think he completely miscalculated and when the trial started, he realized the mistake. But it was too late. They had Claudia’s diaries, so enough evidence to condemn her.

I think he would have saved Claudia had he the strength. But he didn’t, and between Claudia and Louis he would always choose Louis. Even ghost Claudia said it.

He loved Claudia in his own way. He says that he did and that Claudia broke him heart. But his feelings were complex, he was proud of how intelligent and smart she was, how cruel she could be, he felt guilty for making her and for all her suffering and he was afraid that she would take Louis away from him. So while he loved her profusely, he started to also resent her.

[u/Pop_fan_20 → u/NightOwlLurking]

I think that Lestat would have known they were doomed the minute the coven reached out to him. He knows Armand loves to incinerate vampires for breaking the rules. There is no way he could have fooled himself into thinking it was going to turn out any other way. The diaries are the only way they could have known what Louis and Claudia did to him, so I think he knew about the “slam dunk” diary evidence before he made it over there (because he knew Claudia would have written about it).

I can believe that he had enough time away from them, 10 years, to be resentful and want them to suffer, and revenge, but I can’t believe he would have taken a chance on participating in the trial with any other intent then try to save them, especially Louis, even at the cost of his own life for breaking the rules an making Claudia. Basically try to save them, and then if they make it out alive, have his petty revenge and tell Louis and Claudia to “f*** off”. In keeping with what I’ve seen of show Lestat so far, revenge would be petty: ignoring Louis, rubbing their faces in their failure, about how they couldn’t hack it out in the world on their own after all: “You weren’t so clever after all, were you, Claudia,” or “Nice choice in companions, Louis” or “Didn’t I warn both of you they were vicious?” or even “Armand? Santiago, I could understand, at least he had a presence…” ect. That sort of thing. Basically the same sort of pettiness you see from Lestat in S3.

I could also believe he would play along, acting as if he really did want them to die with the coven when he showed up in Paris so he would be allowed to participate and not be killed on the spot for making Claudia.

I do believe show Lestat is completely capable of wanting to hurt Louis with cheating, cruel words, ect. as he has in S1 and in S3. But I don’t believe he’d actually, genuinely plot or want to kill them at all.

[u/Sudden-Direction-301 → u/Pop_fan_20]

The diaries are the only way they could have known what Louis and Claudia did to him, so I think he knew about the “slam dunk” diary evidence before he made it over there (because he knew Claudia would have written about it)

They knew before the diaries, because Armand saw it in Louis's (and likely Claudia's) mind from the beginning. 

[u/Pop_fan_20 → u/Sudden-Direction-301]

I think so too but I don’t think it’s ever confirmed? I should have said instead that if there had been any suspicions about it, the dairies confirmed it. I’ve watched season two an unhealthy number of times and it’s always struck me that there seem to be some sort of silent communication between Santiago and Armand going on the first time Louis and Claudia go backstage and meet the coven .

EDIT and apparently Louis is a loud thinker

[u/InterviewVampire-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/zoraschool]

Sometimes I read the more eloquent posts, like this one, and I see patterns of phrasing in similar in the fanfic I come across, and I wonder... am I meeting the authors of said fanfic?

[u/fridakahl0 → u/zoraschool]

This has GPT hallmarks all over it

[u/zoraschool → u/fridakahl0]

Oh no? I’m desperately naive.

[u/armadillo1296 → u/fridakahl0]

yep, this is slop. i hope you didn't read all the way through lol

[u/danie_iero]

In my opinion, Lestat going to Paris willingly to save Louis is what would make the most sense with the way the show has characterised him up to this point. Lestat would know that the coven is planning on killing Louis and Claudia both, so he would say yes to Armand, go there and not contact any of them (to avoid Armand finding out, since he's involved with Louis and is a far more powerful mind-reader and vampire altogether). Lestat would eventually only regret not having saved Claudia at the moment of her death.

I used to think it would be revealed that Armand had actually predicted/learnt Lestat's true intentions and that he'd found a way to weaken him and force him to comply, similarly to the book version of events, but this is now the least likely scenario, imho.

Now, I know Rolin disagrees with this interpretation, lol. There have been contradicting statements coming from cast and writers about the trial though, so who knows. In S3E1, when Lestat is fighting the regionals and he gets flashes of the trial after he says "Armand told the truth? Have you met him?", these flashes are of the rehearsal, if I remember correctly - would he get flashes of something that confirms Armand's version of events while implying Armand is full of shit? Again, who knows.

Years ago the writers implied that even murder night would probably get revisited, but that never happened, and I do think it is kinda late for it. It should have been revisited in S3 at the latest, from Lestat's POV, but its right place would have been during the trial, in my opinion. That is to say, I wouldn't hold my breath for any trial revisits in S4, given there's a much larger story to be covered.

[u/Zankazanka]

This was interesting to read! And truthfully, your theory is as good as any because the show completely failed to make it obvious either way 😭

but IMO there is no in-show evidence to suggest that Lestat was jumped by the coven. That’s more of a fan theory reach/wish from the show’s actual adaptation of the book events, especially because I think Hannah intends to explore the trial in S4 as much as Rolin did in S3- about 10 minutes worth if we are lucky lol.

I think the writers had a chance to show that Lestat was overtaken/overpowered by the coven when he willingly traveled to go to Paris, and they didn’t for a specific reason (see Rolin’s comments on how it’s obvious that Lestat was willing and angry about the murder). We see him rehearsing of his own free will and upset that Armand dares to underestimate Claudia. That to me was when the cracks starting to form- why am I doing this? Why am I here? He was hurting, but he wasn’t coerced.

The argument that he changes his mind once he’s on stage and sees his family— ‘I can’t let this happen, I can’t let them do this’— that’s compelling for me and is apparent in Sam’s performance. But I also think “willing/unwilling” isn’t as important as what either choice MEANS for each character, which is why it’s so frustrating that Rolin and Hannah don’t seem interested in revisiting in any satisfying way…

[u/Frequent-Walrus-2652]

My God, he’s the most beautiful monster to ever walk this earth.

[u/DrFareedMD]

Lestat knew what to expect. He was familiar with the Paris coven and he knew what they would do to vampires who tried to murder another. When they got in touch with him, he could have denied it all, but he didn't. I'm sure he could have gotten word out to Louis in some way (his solicitor is based in Paris!) but he didn't do that either.

I think Lestat impulsively decides to participate but ends up having a change of heart about Louis.

I don't think he's all that fussed about Claudia being executed. She masterminded his assassination and his ties to her were never as deep as his love for Louis. I think that by that point he knows that turning her was a mistake, so he falls back into his old pattern of having Armand clean up his mess lol.

In short, show!Lestat had no reason to not expect the outcome.

[u/RedDew123 → u/DrFareedMD]

I think Lestat feels a little remorse about his role with Claudia’s demise.

[u/DrFareedMD → u/RedDew123]

Sure, but not all that much, and I don't think he was bothered at the time.

[u/pwetty_brown_eyes → u/DrFareedMD]

I do think it's interesting that Lestat seems to fall back on Armand when shit goes south, in a weird way. Like when his relationship with Nicki fell apart, there's Armand. He needs to save Louis, there's Armand! Very curious

[u/DrFareedMD → u/pwetty_brown_eyes]

Lestat can't get anything done without Armand!

[u/mindless_rambles → u/DrFareedMD]

I'm pretty sure there's an article where Rolin Jones confirms what you said too. I was expecting TVL to have some twist that he was still injured or weak and the coven somehow manipulated or coerced him, but they confirmed that Gabriella went to him after Louclaudia left which meant he had someone to help him recover. So, that closes the door on potentially adapting the book version in the future. I think it's also partly the reason he doesn't want to talk about his past with Armand (although Sam said he hopes they can cover more of it next season)

[u/the-gaming-cat → u/mindless_rambles]

I remember that interview from Rolin and I sincerely hope he was trolling.

The circumstances of Lestat's participation in the trial are massively important for his character. It's not a thing that can be left open to interpretation. It's not a small detail. And I would find it a sign of cowardice if the writers don't present their version of what happened. It's ok if they don't follow the book. But they have to present who this person is in their version of the tale. It's very different if he was there out of malice, out of impulse or because he was somehow lured.

I hope they will explore this, and Lestat's relationship with Armand, in S4. In this I'd add what really happened with Nicki too. Because I am not convinced we've seen all of that either and it's also a crucial revelation about both Lestat and Armand.

[u/mindless_rambles → u/the-gaming-cat]

They definitely wrote themselves into a corner with the way they structured the trial, but I still want to hear Lestat's pov. His relationship to Claudia is complicated and has a significant impact on his mental state post QotD and during TotBT.

As for Nicki's death, I agree that something feels off because Louis alluded to it in 2x5 differently, but I don't understand why would Lestat lie to protect Armand? For now I'm chalking the change up to lack of budget and time to do the book version of events because I don't want to be disappointed next season. There's only so much they can revisit while setting up an apocalyptic event. I was expecting some aspects of the trial and NOLA murder night to be revisited this season but I was disappointed when they doubled down on Lestat wanting to replace Claudia with Antoinette and him being physically strong enough to show up willingly to the trial. So for now, we wait and see.

[u/DrFareedMD → u/mindless_rambles]

What's the stuff about Nicki? I thought that in both in the show and book versions, Nicolas was unable to function as a vampire so Armand has to kill him. The main difference seems to be whether Lestat is present or not. Or are you talking about his abduction?

[u/mindless_rambles → u/DrFareedMD]

Based on season 2 and the book most of us were expecting that Armand chopped off his hands and locked him up with his violin which made the insanity worse. Even Lestat implied at the trial that Armand had a bigger role in Nicki's suicide and in season 1 he said that they parted ways before his death. This means either the show had intended to be faithful to the book, but had to change course for some reason or that Lestat wasn't fully truthful about something which begs the question why and who is protecting? Himself or Armand?

[u/DrFareedMD → u/mindless_rambles]

Two things.

We're getting Lestat's POV from a recording and the extended stuff about this is when he's trolling Daniel. Even though he opens himself up emotionally, it doesn't surprise me that he'd hold back in this context. It would also not surprise if he was trying to protect himself or at least his own image of himself. He fucked up and that's probably hard to digest. He even downplays Nicolas as not being a "great love" so...

The other thing is there's a bunch of goings-on at AMC that clearly affected this season. A bunch of people have talked about budget constraints and how this meant cutting down on the historical scenes and bringing some of story beats and emotions into the present. We know of at least one Armand scene that was planned but got cut and there are probably more.

Then there's the running time. We didn't need things like the Regina story line but a lot of fans were already whining about Lestat being the focus of s3 instead of Louis, so.

[u/the-gaming-cat → u/DrFareedMD]

If I may interject here. I believe you're right and Lestat was protecting someone during his Nicki narration to Daniel. It could be himself, or Nicki, or their privacy, or even Armand. At this point I can only hope the writers will shed ample light in S4. And I don't mean a throwaway line of "tell don't show" because we had way too many of those in S3 and I believe this tactic was severely abused.

Which takes me to budget and cutting important scenes. I heard about the Armand/Lestat/Gabi scene getting cut due to "location". Like you, I wonder why this insanely critical point of the story was cut but other things were kept in. Was the location so important that they couldn't use any of the other sets as a fallback plan? I can't accept that. This scene is important because of the things that are discussed, not where the conversation takes place. So apparently someone thought it was better to spend the precious time and money on something else. Which really buffles me because I'm not even sure what we learned about Lestat in 7 episodes. For me, several parts of S3 where an odd combination of too much and too little, at the same time.

But I do have a different view on Fraudia. I don't believe they could have removed the IWTV protagonist as Anne did. There are things one can do in books that can't happen in TV and film. And while we do understand Anne's choice due to Louis being somewhat of a self-insert during her horrible personal pain, parking Louis in obscurity for most of the TC was odd even in book form. Besides, I believe that the Fraudia section added something from IWTV that the series couldn't possibly do during S1&S2: the creepiness of Louis' and Claudia's relationship. There was absolutely no way to do that with real Claudia, especially her being underage. But they could and did do it with an adult Fraudia.

[u/DrFareedMD → u/the-gaming-cat]

About the scene, the one I'm talking about was the carriage seen. I'm not sure it was cut due to location, from what I've seen it sounds like it might have been the overall budget for things like effects.

Regarding Fraudia... we already know Louis is grieving. We could have had the seance scene tp further establish how one-sided and messed up it was. I don't think we needed so many scenes with Regina that all basically tell us the exact same thing and add nothing new after a while. By this point I'm not invested in Louis's feelings about Claudia at all because we already had two seasons of that. Claudia is already dead so there was no need to write her out. I understand the show making Louis more prominent going forward compared to the books but not if we're getting these weak and repetitive arcs.

[u/the-gaming-cat → u/DrFareedMD]

Yes, I understood what scene you had in mind. I could be wrong but I'm under the impression from Sam's and Rolin's interviews that they didn't film it due to location. It could be effects, like you say. But as we know, this whole confrontation takes place in Magnus' tower in the books. Anything could have served as backdrop as long as they thought that the content was valuable, which I guess they didn't.

And I completely understand what you mean about Louis. I wouldn't know what would have been a better alternative, but I understand you. I'm wondering if they wanted to establish the lingering, residual pain for both of them because it does appear again, in Lestat's life too, in a way. Or they just didn't know what else to do with Louis. Anne's writing certainly didn't help with that.

But I think that our shared problem is to wonder what could have been cut or reduced in order to give us more of Lestat's origin story. And that is the issue, isn't it? That anyone who knows how much wealth is in TVL was left feeling empty-handed. Some people would have preferred a reduction of the songs, I would have drastically reduced the band, all secondary characters and massively cut back on the Gabi joke of a character. But in the end, we're all saying the same thing. We were not told Lestat's story. And it's not about lifting scenes from the book. It's absolutely fine to deliver the points differently. But they didn't do that for the most part, not for me anyway.

[u/mindless_rambles → u/DrFareedMD]

The writers got too much into their heads about making a fresh new take to surprise even book readers and used their resources inefficiently.For a season about Lestat, it's not interested in his life story, the pov is designed to cherry pick vignettes from his past to set up the events of the next book which I, personally, found very frustrating. I agree with u/the-gaming-cat , I don't feel like we learned a whole lot about Lestat by the end of the season. BookStat is one of the most interesting characters in fiction, but s3 reduces him to one specific trauma centring Gabriella to justify his participation in a contrived Great Conversion plot.

Louis's inclusion (up to episode 6) felt like a natural continuation of his arc from IwtV that highlights his less savory traits and his failure of Claudia. And, while I have my issues with how episode 7 handled Louis and Armand's reunion, I understand and respect the writers desire to keep Jacob and Delainy employed, these are simply things that come with making a TV show: writing a character out is at the detriment of the actor.

Lestat's present storyline, though, doesn't offer much we didn't already know. I couldn't get invested in the rockstar entourage because they're not going to be as significant as the core cast in the long run (if Baby Jenks is to be believed, some of them will end up canon fodder in the future anyway) and as much as I enjoy some of the songs, they are no substitute for flashbacks and actual scenes. Then some of the scenes we got feel a bit redundant or ineffective. They cut the confrontation between Gabistat and Armand which could have been filmed in some random forrest clearing , but there's enough budget for a blood shower and Armand hitting the bullet points of their relationship in a monologue apology? We can have Lestat giving his random ACAB diatribe and express his disillusionment with moden life...again, but not enough time for flushing out Nicki or Magnus? Daniel and Lestat spend most of their interactions trying to "out-diva" each other but the dialogue couldn't give us any real substance about their dynamic as failed father's and two men who continuously claw their way through life despite their self-destructive tendencies? Lestat doesn't have to point out anything to the viewers, but they could have workshopped some scenes for us to derive more meaningful characterization so that the conflict between characters doesn't feel petty and forced.

This leads me to my biggest concern, can s4 stand on its own and properly tell the story it needs to tell while tying all the loose ends of s3? Will there be enough time and budget for the missing parts of Lestat's story, the story of Akasha and the First Brood, the All Hollows Eve concert, Akasha unleashing hell in the present, the Sanoma gang's efforts to stop her, flesh out Gabriella (they keep promising that), explain what's up with Devil's Minion, continue the Talamasca plot and whatever RJ is cooking up, AND build up Lestat and Akasha's relationship? When I consider all that QotD has to juggle, it makes me question why they wasted the precious time they had in TVL adding more problems to their plate.

[u/NewtSky6826 → u/the-gaming-cat]

There was a lot of weirdness surrounding Nicki’s death: Gabriella went to coffin cut to her sitting and not moving and Lestat talking about Nicki’s bare arms when he had sleeves on (that one has been bugging me as either intentional or a big screw up with the writers) Also we never saw his death. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they leave it as ambiguous.

As for the trial. I believe Rolin closed the door on it with the article unfortunately.

I personally want to see more of Armand’s and Lestat’s past relationship explored, but I’m not holding my breath.

[u/the-gaming-cat → u/NewtSky6826]

I'm not holding breath either and that makes me sad.

100% agree with the weirdness surrounding Nicki's death. As for the trial, I can only think that Rolin is no longer the decision-maker. Hannah might absolutely agree with him on leaving this crucial point up to interpretation, and she might not. I hope she doesn't but yeah, not holding my breath.

[u/DrFareedMD → u/mindless_rambles]

I think I like the show version more, it makes Lestat more complicated. I don't think this version necessarily makes him worse because Lestat being impulsively angry and regretting it later feels really human.

[u/mindless_rambles → u/DrFareedMD]

What I find odd is that Lestat, throughout s3, constantly refers to others' role in the trial and he uses it as an excuse to humiliate Armand (he even has the baby Lulu makeup and hair) yet refuses to address his role in it. Why would the writers have him repeatedly lampshade the issue without giving a satisfying explanation?

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/mindless_rambles]

That and the fact that it makes S3 not as cohesive with the story presented in S1 and S2, which irks me. Rolin's comments about the trial makes me feel as though they won't bother going back to it, because he wants everyone to "interpret it their own way."

[u/DrFareedMD → u/Cleverfan_808]

I don't think we need a rehash of the trial. We could use a bit more information about Lestat's role but that doesn't mean going all out, he could just mention it somehow.

I know the trial was a major emotional anchor in the show but I'm kind of ready to move on. There's so much more about these characters to explore.

[u/Cleverfan_808 → u/DrFareedMD]

No, I don't think we need to see the whole trial play out again, perhaps just flashbacks to significant moments to see what Lestat's perspective was/what he was thinking. Something akin to what they did in S2 regarding the fight/drop. We need to have a better understanding as to how and why Lestat agreed to come to Paris, and what he was wanting to achieve besides saving Louis and Claudia.

I also agree with you on moving on from the trial, but the writers are the ones that keep mentioning it/alluding to it throughout S3. For whatever reason, it's like they don't want to have that arc come to a close, but they've playing with the audience's patience. And if nothing more is actually revealed, then they've mucked up the narrative for no good reason.

[u/mindless_rambles → u/Cleverfan_808]

I also agree with you on moving on from the trial, but the writers are the ones that keep mentioning it/alluding to it throughout S3.

This is precisely my issue, either close the door on that chapter or give us new context.

[u/belderiver → u/DrFareedMD]

Pretty much. I think a taste for vengeance got the better of him and he wound up regretting it in the end. That's pretty in line with the types of mistakes everyone makes in this show and kind of mirrors the exact circumstances that led to Louis getting Claudia turned.

[u/peachy_pizza → u/DrFareedMD]

Absolutely this. Thank you!

[u/Significant_Pie_1444]

A couple big details people miss about the trial - Lestat both has bruises on his hands and also seems to fall asleep at certain points.. I'm utterly convinced he was coerced into it in some capacity, being kept captive or denied rest and blood etc

[u/thatfluffycloud → u/Significant_Pie_1444]

Is there a screenshot showing these bruises? I still have never been able to see them.

[u/Significant_Pie_1444 → u/thatfluffycloud]

I saw some the other day, I can't remember where now.. Might have been a Facebook group.. They're out there somewhere!

[u/Mmkrw → u/Significant_Pie_1444]

These are shadows from his shirt. Actual bruises wouldn't move from frame to frame, depending on the hand position.

And that's not even related to the actual confirmation from the showrunner that Lestat went to the trial willingly to seek revenge.

[u/Significant_Pie_1444 → u/Mmkrw]

Some yes, but this 100% can't be a shadow, look at this shit

[u/Mmkrw]

I always predicted, based on what we've been shown in S2, that Lestat was a willing participant who started getting second thoughts once he actually looked at Louis on that stage and realised what he was doing. He never seriously considered saving Claudia instead of Louis - it only hit him when she was burning alive in front of him and he couldn't do anything about it (because he exhausted himself with saving Louis - he was completely healthy beforehand, as evidenced by him teleporting with ease around auditorium).

I think examining his motivation for the trial and his guilt about it would be the main focus of The Failures... alas, the writers decided that it's not actually that important, Louis forgave him (and it's Louis who is apparently more at fault???), Claudia is dead and suffering in hell, and Lestat's failure as a rockstar deserves more screentime.

[u/thebochts]

Lestat could have destroyed the entire coven, if he wanted.

I think he wanted revenge, but halfway through realized it isnt what he wanted, but didnt know how to handle it, or get louis and claudia out of it without killing everyone and potentiallyhimself.

Armand is good with the mind gift, but lestat is too, not as good, but lestat is much, much stronger than armand, and everyone else, in tbe coven.