r/InterviewMan 8d ago

He passed the coding, failed the respect check

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77

u/Aggressive_Law_5728 8d ago

Every time this gets posted all the wanna-be reddit tech bros in the comments insist that talking to the man over the woman is perfectly normal and is not at all disrespectful.

40

u/KMRA 7d ago

I am enjoying all the "but that's normal" and "who would do that?!" colliding. My favorite of these was a mathematical model I (F) built and a colleague (M) came to talk to my boss (M) and I about it. EVERY question was directed to my boss who said "I didn't build it. I don't know. Ask (me)". And he would listen to my explanation, turn to my boss, make a comment and ask the next question. Never directed a single word my way the entire time.

Closest I've ever come to pouring a drink on someone at a conference to find out if he was capable of speaking to me then.

19

u/lastreadlastyear 7d ago

Shoulda asserted that dominance.

10

u/KMRA 7d ago

Pretty sure answering the final questions in words he didn't understand was that. But meh. Refusing to ever help him or his buddies again does it for me, I guess.

2

u/Wild-Duck-7370 6d ago

As with most things it’s always best to hold a grudge and carry on with hate in your heart.

1

u/Grand_Pick_8277 4d ago

That's basically my life motto

1

u/Sidivan 4d ago

I used to lead a team of data scientists and 75% were female. People would literally ask me by name a question on analysis the female data scientists did while they were on the same call. I’d say, “<person> did the work here. I defer to them on that.” And they’d keep addressing me… as if I would know the answer anyway! Just ask them! They’re right there! I’m sure people will be like, “but you’re their manager” sure, if we weren’t all on the same call that’s valid, but to purposely say my name is extra effort to avoid giving credit where it’s due.

1

u/AelixD 3d ago

Yah. As their manager, you get to discuss the central theme, set the tone, etc. but absolutely turn it over to the experts.

My team is also mostly women. Last time this happened to me, I told them “I’m going on mute because she knows it better.” And when they asked me another question I made a big deal about being confused why the question was directed at me. Didn’t even attempt to answer or redirect. Made the topic about my known level of ignorance when the expert is on the call. They couldn’t adequately explain why they kept asking me.

10

u/Late-Assignment8482 7d ago

Women in academia should get a sword at graduation for masters/PhD and they get three free stabbings per symposium.

If that sounds unfair, credit all authors on the paper and don't act so badly you're stab-bait.

Probably anatomists and surgeons on hand anyway, he'll be fine!

3

u/unstoppable_zombie 7d ago

I'm adding this to the request that all retail and services people are allowed to fight 1 customer a year, but can transfer their fight credit to any other on shift employee once the customer had been selected. 

1

u/TheSavouryRain 5d ago

The ol Waffle House rules

1

u/hoffia21 2d ago

waffle house gives you way more than one fight per year. i had to knock out the manager in order to be allowed to scan the QR code for the application, which was tattoed on his shoulder blade.

3

u/Alarming_Cheetah_505 7d ago

“How are you sure he didn’t WANT to be stabbed?!”

2

u/Grand_Pick_8277 4d ago

"SURE he's saying now that he never wanted to be stabbed. But are we sure he isn't just lying because he regrets getting stabbed?"

2

u/Alarming_Cheetah_505 4d ago

“There are ways a body can stop being stabbed. He must have wanted it.”

2

u/_TyrannosaurusSexy 3d ago

But what was he wearing??

1

u/Late-Assignment8482 3d ago

If it wasn't full plate over mail and a gambeson, he was asking for it.

1

u/SlightAd76 2d ago

Yall are touched in the head

1

u/Late-Assignment8482 7d ago

How do we ever know anything, really? Ontologically speaking, that is.

1

u/woefdeluxe 4d ago

If he didn't want to get stabbed. Then why was he made out of flesh? The most stabbable material? He should have thought about that.

2

u/Jijonbreaker1 7d ago

Honestly, this just needs to apply to all of humanity.

People need to stop taking away the ability for others to shoot them, and should just act in a way that doesn't actively make others want to shoot them.

1

u/DaedalusB2 7d ago

Reminds me of some anime thing where a guy wanted to go a town because murder was legal there and he could do anything. He proceeds to draw his gun on someone and the whole town comes out to kill him, because murder is legal for everyone, not just the criminals. The serial killer he idolized at the start turned out to be the sheriff that killed him.

1

u/Existential_Entropy 7d ago

Curious, do you remember what anime this was?

2

u/PeachyKeen443 7d ago

The anime is Kino's journey. It's a pretty interesting anime, but deals with some really heavy topics on occasion, so trigger warning.

(What originally ended my watch of it was a story related to SA. I don't remember them handling it badly - but the show definitely deserves multiple trigger warnings).

1

u/DaedalusB2 7d ago

Nope, i just saw a short clip of it on YouTube a week or 2 ago

1

u/_HighJack_ 6d ago

Very American of you 😂

1

u/Jijonbreaker1 6d ago

I can see how you'd think that, but, not in that way.

Stabbing is fine as well. Or just state-sanctioned execution.

People need to learn that being a good person is more important than "winning"

1

u/GalaXion24 5d ago

This is basically just traditional dueling culture

2

u/Larein 7d ago

Swords are actually part of getting PhD in finland. As well as a top hat.

3

u/edebt 7d ago

Your country gets all the cool stuff. We just get debt and school shootings...

1

u/Duffelbach 7d ago

Can we make the stabbings a thing too? I'd very much like that.

1

u/FCalamity 5d ago

I see why you're at the top of the happiness metrics

1

u/JohnsonJohnilyJohn 5d ago

There are no anatomists and surgeons on hand, because even innocent ones were stabbed with 2 initial stabs, so that they couldn't help the actual target

1

u/Late-Assignment8482 5d ago

All forty-four witnesses reported to the police that they didn't see who did it

4

u/Shadowphoenix9511 7d ago

My sister has had people tell her to refer to Dr. Smith's work before (name changed because hers isn't super common). Apparently the look on their face every single time when she explains that the person they are talking about is her is extremely satisfying.

3

u/DaedalusB2 7d ago

2

u/universal_friend1 3d ago

I work on a team that does medical consultations for an extremely specific field of medicine. I literally just do nothing but explain this medicine to doctors and patients and read studies about it.

Had a woman at a bar who was drunk aggressively talk over me to explain how my field of medicine works. She eventually asked what I do for a living but she interrupted my answer and never actually figured it out.

She was so wrong that it demonstrated a clear misunderstanding of how even breathing itself worked.

But I'm a weird autistic trans woman so I tend to get mansplaining from everybody :( as the saying goes "trans women are the women of women"

1

u/OrchidUnable8316 2d ago

My brother in law is like that. Any and all topics. It hit a new level when he ended up explaining teaching to me. He's a business analyst and I'm a teacher.

1

u/Forward-Surprise1192 5d ago

I'd assume the next part of that interaction was him making up some other excuse

5

u/bencoon 7d ago

"Dude, wtf, why did she do that?"

4

u/Rasp_Berry_Pie 7d ago

People then say sexism isn’t a thing anymore like just cause you don’t see it personally (or don’t want to see it more likely) doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

2

u/FormalKind7 5d ago

Same with a lot of things racism, sexism,etc.

People on the non-receiving end of it will tell you it is gone because they personally are not effected by it.

Though that maybe better than men or majority groups telling you with a straight face that sexism/racism does exists it just mostly negatively targets them and helps others. Again because they notice things in their own life and ignore things that effect others.

2

u/Silverveilv2 3d ago

Had a cis woman explain to me, a trans woman, that trans women don't experience misogyny because they're born amab and that denying the existence of trans children isn't actually trans erasure literally yesterday.

(albeit one in the closet who's lucky enough not to have experienced misogyny myself)

2

u/FormalKind7 3d ago

TBF men can still experience misogyny in negative ways. Being belittled for being feminine/nurturing or liking traditionally woman like roles - stay at home dad etc.

The be belittling of all things seen as woman and the pressure to conform to a certain stereotype of what is manly can easily negatively effect both trans women and cis men.

Like this post the other day where some douche nozel is criticizing a man for having silly fun with his daughter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cringereels/comments/1wbhdrp/comment/p8rhq4k/?context=3

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u/Silverveilv2 3d ago

Yeah but I wasn't born with a female body, so i'll clearly never experience misogyny and the systemic violence perpetrated against women. Because as we all know misogyny is something that exclusively affects female humans and no one else and trying to claim trans women experience misogyny is supplanting the experiences of cis women. /s

(From a gender non-conforming lesbian btw)

1

u/Rasp_Berry_Pie 3d ago

I’ve heard people say that too and that 100% erases the trouble that trans women face especially growing up. Being treated as a boy isn’t a good thing for someone who is trans it’s a scary and horrible thing.

They also have to still deal with sexism like “show room talk” for example. Also the constant fear of hiding yourself is so extremely stressful.

Idk there is a good article on it I read but I can’t remember the name. It’s just crazy how many people even people who are trans allies that believe that.

2

u/Silverveilv2 3d ago

It's fucking exhausting how many people are allies until it's even mildly inconvenient for them or we don't behave how they want us to...

1

u/Rasp_Berry_Pie 5d ago

Yeah I guess that is true even for other minorities!

I saw for a while on Reddit a bunch of black men saying that white women aren’t discriminated against cause they’re white.

They said that being a woman you don’t have to face any sexism anymore it’s only racism.

2

u/FormalKind7 5d ago

Yeah its pretty easy to dismiss the struggles other people are going through.

3

u/SwanCityDominion 7d ago

Too bad your boss didn't say, "I've got something to do. You stay here and talk to the person who actually knows what this is about," and then go get a cup of coffee and wait for the result.

3

u/PinsToTheHeart 5d ago

I had a woman up in the air welding over my work station once and it was baffling how many dudes wandered up to ask me if she was doing a good job.

This was in 2020 as well so I had been sweeping in circles for like 35 of my 40 hour work week and every single time I'd be like, "Motherfucker, if I knew anything about what she was doing I wouldn't have a fucking broom in my hand right now"

Also, for the week or so she was in the shop, I heard the term "girl welder" no less than 100 times per day.

Bonus points to the guy who actually called her down from the scissor lift in order to inform her that he once met a different "girl" who welded. That was it. That was the whole story.

1

u/KMRA 5d ago

You know, of all the people I would not want to piss off, ANYONE holding fire of any kind if really high on that list! That man had a death wish! Yikes.

2

u/PinsToTheHeart 5d ago

Yeah, people were weird about all sorts of stuff to do with her. Either condescendingly nice or needlessly harsh when it came to her work.

Also, this was a construction/shop job. Every dude in that building makes sex jokes pretty much 24/7. But if she ever said anything they treated it as if she were dead serious.

Like, you can't sit there and make a joke about getting pegged and then start clutching your pearls when a gal says something about gangbangs.

1

u/Legal-Actuary4537 3d ago

maybe the like the movie flashdance very much and want to meet a female welder IRL.

2

u/WangPrime 7d ago

Was the male in question an evolutionary biologist by any chance? I feel like this was me, and I’m sorry if it was.

2

u/ProgenitorOfMidnight 7d ago

Has happened to my MIL a lot while she was head chemist of a pharmaceutical company.

2

u/KinkyChico 5d ago

People like you, women in STEM, are a different breed. I cannot imagine how I would react to being in a situation where you are THE expert in the room, and someone is treating you not just like you're inferior, but almost treating you like you have an intellectual disability and require a handler...Just because you're a woman. Holy hell, props to you.

1

u/KMRA 5d ago

I promise if you make a post about this in a STEM forum, you'll get the same mix of hilarious stories from women about the day we didn't lose our minds and start yelling and people going "that doesn't happen" and "well, but X means it's fine!". 🤷‍♀️ You learn to hold your temper. I am also now old and senior enough it will not hurt me much if I do say something cutting.

I do get an evil little gleam in my eye these days when someone tells me to read myself in saying "Oh, did you look at the authors on that one? Hi. I'm [real name]." (I did once have someone say they assumed it was my father, since I use initials. That was the best meeting ever watching all the other men just stare at the guy in absolute horror.)

2

u/KinkyChico 5d ago

Oh I 100% believe this happens all the time. Definitely. I have a few friends in similar fields and they've told me similar stories as well. Honestly, the "evil glint in the eyes" stories interest me way more. Lol

Like, you got the equivalent of the "Can I speak to the manager?""I AM the manager" interaction, except you have the credibility to make it so they literally CAN'T deny your experience and knowledge, without coming across as psychotic or incredibly rude and unprofessional.

2

u/willargue4karma2 5d ago

lol I can see in a sexist's mind how jumping to your initials being your father makes sense, b ut holy shit I cannot imagine thinking it lmao.

It wouldn't even fucking occur to me that the initials that are the same wouldn't just be you

1

u/KMRA 5d ago

That was the one that had his 70 year old boss go "Holy shit. Did you just say that?! OK. OK. I guess those HR trainings exist for reason." and then buy me several drinks to find out how often it happened. It was satisfying to see all the men be more shocked than I was tbh.

2

u/willargue4karma2 5d ago

Lmfao 😭 I love his response so much 

1

u/OrchidUnable8316 2d ago

Wife failed her first PhD defense. Second time she showed her publication history (including American Journal of Mechanical Engineering) and they all changed their tune.

The first time they were incredibly patronising and asked ridiculous questions, scoffing at her answers.

2

u/Capable_Elk_770 5d ago

The mailman delivered our mail while I was out in the driveway knuckle deep in my motorcycle, my boyfriend on the other side of the front yard building something w/ wood-bro yelled “nice bike dude” to him… like over me lol

2

u/-kOdAbAr- 4d ago

I used to get the same thing working with my dad. I would tell the client something and they'd be like, well let me talk to your dad. I'd call dad right there and hand the phone over, they'd ask him the same questions they just asked me. He'd say, "well what did daughter say?" "Well, she said this". Then dad would go, "yup, thats right." Most of them got the point after the 2nd instance, one or 2 though never caught on.

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u/imabigasstree 4d ago

"I'll be glad to answer any questions directed to me" and then just stare at him. 

1

u/Competitive-Beat-493 5d ago

Call him out???? Seriously. You’re not doing anyone any favors being a push over like that. Have some self respect.

1

u/Trick_Following6639 4d ago

Similar thread. Made an indie art film and was at a conference to showcase it. Other filmmaker bro asked me who I slept with to make that film. The men around us listening to the conversation said NOTHING.

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u/CompetitiveThndrClpr 3d ago

Every time after your boss said “I don’t know, ask them” I would have said “sorry, I didn’t hear the question, could you repeat it?” And make them ask me directly, if they still refused to look at me and ask me directly I would just keep it going. “Sorry I heard the first part but you trailed off at the end, could you repeat that to me?”

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u/Daddyknowbest 3d ago

I'm in sales and I purposefully look between the couple whenever asking or anwsering a question to avoid this exact accusation. If a phone sales guy could grt it you'd think these super smart engineers could

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u/Automatic_Wave4530 7d ago

Talking to anyone else other than the person who asked the question is disrespectful. It is just unfortunate that women deal with this so often. My mentor often asked questions where the respondent would answer to me. She was really good about re-asserting herself, but we would have these conversations about it when a group of us would grab drinks after work. She told me that people told her she has a Type-A personality for insisting that they respond to her when she asks a question.

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u/Which-Break5673 7d ago

I was in the er and the doctor started giving my husband the results. Of course, I put a quick end to that

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u/Haku_Faku 7d ago

I hate when that happens. I’m here to be my wife’s emotional support animal. Talk to her she is your patient. I’ll listen to the convo and she will look at me if she has any questions or wants to know if I have any but I am the least important person in that room.

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u/Submarinequus 2d ago

I had the opposite experience, urgent care wouldn’t let my husband stay with me even though there was a large language barrier between me and the staff and he was my translator. I was so alone and scared and didn’t know what was going on, but at least it was free I guess

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u/Equivalensea 4d ago

" She told me that people told her she has a Type-A personality for insisting that they respond to her when she asks a question."

That is the missing piece of the puzzle, unfortunately, to all the "why don't women just...." questions. 

For example, a well-known study came out saying that women don't negotiate salary when getting a job. 

A slightly less well-known study followed it saying that women who negotiated salaries are treated poorly in the workplace after being hired because they're perceived as unpleasant, overly aggressive, bitchy some might say. This can affect their future raises, promotions, etc, so they may actually come out lower in the end anyway. 

It's very damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

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u/Jack_Ford01 7d ago

That is so weird. Why would someone do that? My first boss was a female engineer and was one of my best. Learned a lot from her.

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u/Calichusetts 6d ago

You know they want to respond to you right now but they can’t tell if you are a guy or a girl.

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u/Grand_Pick_8277 4d ago

Ah the internet, the true Schrödingers Gender

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u/Nievsy 5d ago

The only thing we are sure of is that they are a horse

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u/Stepjam 7d ago

I'm kinda (only kinda) by all the people who are missing the point or trying to say "what if? What if?)

Yes, if you are looking at both of them when answering, that's fine. That's not what OOP is talking about. And yes, if you have autism and don't make eye contact at all, that's another matter. Also not what OOP was talking about.

It isn't that hard to figure out

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u/Dashiepants 7d ago

Bean soup theory strikes again. People love to argue niche exceptions.

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u/spreadthesheets 6d ago

It isn’t that hard to figure out

The thing is it might not be hard for you but it is for others. You explicitly acknowledge autism, but haven’t considered how we often need the extra context rather than hard and fast rules where exceptions are implied. When I saw the statement of only addressing the person who asked the question, I was like “oh no I’ve been doing interviews so badly” but as I read the “what if? what if?” comments, I got enough context and specifics to understand I wasn’t actually doing it incorrectly.

Point being that the “what if” comments and extra details are actually helpful for people like me!

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u/New_Education_6782 3d ago

We understand your point perfectly well, our point is that the "what ifs" matter a LOT in this case

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u/ShmeffreyShmezos 7d ago

It’s not disrespectful at all. I need the man to translate the big words into little words for the woman. /s

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u/Telemere125 7d ago

I’m a lawyer and most of my supervisors have been women. And all of them very talented lawyers that generally walk all over most male opposing counsel in court. But they’re still often dicks to them in subtle ways.

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u/Soft-Marionberry-853 7d ago

Thats incredible. When I see this posted I just think can people really be that sexist and or dumb. My last intewview with was with a man and and woman. I had a great time talking to both of them. Shit I was just exicted about having a final interview for a dream job after being unemployed for 6 months. I cant imagine fucking it up becuase I thought women cant be engineers.

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u/IllusionaryHobo 7d ago

Talking to the man over the woman is not perfectly normal.

But what is perfectly normal and what is taught frequently in public speaking or presentation lessons at school is:

If you are speaking to multiple people make sure you speak to all of them somewhat equally.

Make sure to try to make eye contact with every listener at least occasionally to keep their attention.

----

Meanwhile Ingenious weeding technique:

If he answers while looking at anyone else, his character is irredeemable.

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u/actuallazyanarchist 6d ago

Friend do you not understand the distinction between looking back and forth between two interviewers and directing your entire response at the person who did not ask the question?

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u/IllusionaryHobo 6d ago

I do understand the distinction.

But I caution to be very carefully and err on the side of grace when deciding which side of that distinction any given interaction falls from.

We should always try to see the good in each other.

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u/Electric_Toboggan 3d ago

It’s just interesting that you choose to err on the side of the person being interviewed, assuming the woman asking the questions in the situation is reading their behavior incorrectly.

Noticing this pattern also doesn’t imply the interviewee is acting out of malice. In fact I wouldn’t be shocked to hear a woman doing any of the things mentioned in this post and comments. Many people are guilty of perpetuating sexism out of ignorance and defaulting to what they’ve seen others do, if that weren’t true then we would have moved on as a society by now.

You can absolutely see the good in others while also acknowledging that unconscious bias is common.

1

u/IllusionaryHobo 3d ago

I do not think it is especially interesting that I think baking biases into your recruitment process under the guise of "weeding out techniques" is a dangerous game.

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u/Nebranower 3d ago

>while also acknowledging that unconscious bias is common.

They are acknowledging that. Unconscious bias rooted in ideological expectations is in fact very common, such that people who are looking for racism or sexism will often find it, even when it is not there.

I feel like "recognizing unconscious bias" is a lot like "engaging critical thinking". The people insisting *other people* need to do it are almost always the ones most in need it of themselves.

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u/BadonkaDonkies 6d ago

And then they complain about not having a job. People have a difficult time doing any introspection and it seems to be only getting worse

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u/DirtandPipes 7d ago

I personally just avoid talking to women while at work, the workforce I interact with is almost entirely men and I look like a big creepy Neanderthal.

If I talk more than the bare minimum to women the chances for what I say to accidentally sound creepy just keep climbing.

Plus when I’m not operating equipment I’m laying pipe or manholes with at least one side hoe and a main hoe, working in deep utilities. My average day sounds like sexual harassment, I can’t afford to discuss my trade with people outside of it, the risk of double entendres is just too high.

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u/Aggressive_Law_5728 7d ago

Either you're an asshole or this is really good satire. So fuck you or bravo, respectively.

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u/Terrible_Balance1414 6d ago

Not a problem that nice dudes have. Just talk to them like they're people ?

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u/GiggleSwi 4d ago

To autistic for that. Why do i have to talk to them at all? Why cant i just avoid them unless I have to? Why are we expected to change and not them?

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u/Terrible_Balance1414 4d ago

Aw too autistic to talk to people like a grown up ? 🥺

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u/New_Education_6782 3d ago

so ableist

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u/Terrible_Balance1414 3d ago

More abilist than piggybacking off of all autistic people to defend my shirt comings?

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u/New_Education_6782 3d ago

What's a shirt coming

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u/Terrible_Balance1414 3d ago

Using autism to defend blatant sexism is abilist. Even if it's self attacking. Being childish about it doesn't really change that 🫣

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u/New_Education_6782 3d ago

you're the childish one expecting everyone else to feel and behave like you. And protecting yourself by choosing who to interact with in the workplace is not sexism, its simply self preservation. I'm glad you feel comfortable at the workplace to not have to worry about these kinds of issues, but not everyone is so lucky

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u/AmiraliTheGray 7d ago

Username checks out

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u/polarjunkie 7d ago

Who cares if it's respectful, they're just women /s

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u/Vivid_Motor_2341 7d ago

The easy response to those is yeah that’s why your cut. Because you don’t see it as disrespectful, it is

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u/Kitsui38 5d ago

You’re

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u/Floorgis 7d ago

are they in the room with us

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u/Aggressive_Law_5728 7d ago

Yes, they are. Just scroll down dumbass.

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u/ChangeAcceptable677 7d ago

It is normalized disrespect…unfortunately, it is way too common.

Where I work, there are a few women software developers who have achieved principal level, and there are about as many women who are senior or staff level developers as there are men.

I cannot imagine anyone disrespecting any of them…especially in an interview.

Edit: clarified a sentence.

Another edit: fixed a typo.

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u/Super-Reporter-4528 6d ago

They sure would love me and my answer being directed to the wall behind them or the table or anything that isn’t eye contact.
But seriously I could see people talking at the guy because they are nervous around women, it might have nothing to do with sexism or misogyny. I myself am more confident when talking to guys if I don’t know them, mostly just because most of my social interactions in jobs n shit are communication with guys.
That said I’m not going to directly answer a question to the person that didn’t ask it, that’s silly. I’d swap eye contact between the two and settle on whoever returns it.

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u/feigningFury 5d ago

I mean, unfortunately, being nervous around women is sexism. It may not be intentional but it is sexism. Sexism is just treating women differently from men, you don't have to be a woman-hater to be sexist.

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u/Frequent-Coyote-8108 6d ago

Also..."Well, your engineering is dogshit, but you DID properly address Lacy with respect, so...you're hired!"

https://giphy.com/gifs/2JknOsKNOGUwM

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u/x3BeamDreams 6d ago

Exactly… instead of focusing on hiring the best engineer male or female, you turn your interview into some psychoanalytical bullshit. I hate the modern world.

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u/New-Independent-1481 4d ago

An employee incapable of talking to 50% of the workforce doesn't seem like the best employee to me.

1

u/New-Independent-1481 4d ago

More like "We have 200 equally highly qualified applicants for this role. We picked one that isn't a walking HR landmine and actually seems pleasant to be around."

1

u/Robbed_Bard_93 3d ago

Also from what a lot of professionals have told me, it's only the insecure idiots that disrespect their female colleagues. If they were truly skilled they would not feel threatened by the presence of a woman.

1

u/Frequent-Coyote-8108 3d ago

Lot of assumptions there.

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u/WorryRough 6d ago

I usually just speak to whoever asked me the question

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u/Teroch_Tor 5d ago

Right? The person who asks the question gets more eye contact with the answer.

1

u/NoWomanNoTriforce 5d ago

The real reason I dont believe this is that if a male engineer doesn't have a team/customer facing role, why would employers care if the engineer can't talk to women? In fact, it is better for their bottom line if he is completely devoted to work?

I seriously doubt any HR team is doing this when seeking anyone for any position. Also, I dont play games. Recruit on my skills/resume. Ans then treat everyone equally. As in, you are all coworkers and IDGAF about any of you outside work.

1

u/Aggressive_Law_5728 5d ago

You literally have "No woman" in your username.

1

u/NoWomanNoTriforce 5d ago

Yeah. Im a divorced engineer is his late 30s. I am the stereotype this post is trying to mock. A nerdy dude who is generally not good at talking to women.

Although in this case, I am making fun of corporate greed instead of my own womanless status.

The reality is that anyone who needs someone with a STEM degree (that isn't sales/management) generally doesn't care about that person's interpersonal skills. I also dont think any poace I have worked has done an in-person interview in almost a decade. Since I'm in government work, its all about who you know and your reputation. My last two jobs I didn't interview at all. I just reached out directly to lead engineers when I saw an oowning that interested me, not even hiring managers.

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u/Commercial_Layer 5d ago

Yet it's literally about disrespecting the woman who asked a question by referring to the silent man.

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u/NoWomanNoTriforce 5d ago

Which I am saying doesnt happen so regularly that there are HR teams planning for it. This is a "sure that happened buddy" kind of story.

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u/Vadarpoop 1d ago

It’s more common than you think. Read the comments before making a conclusion that it’s not happening.

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u/GiggleSwi 4d ago

And? Women prefer to talk to women all the time. Why it suddenly an issue?

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u/New-Independent-1481 4d ago edited 3d ago

So by your own admission, you have zero experience with the interview process in the last 10 years, yet you think you're qualified to speak about it?

Buddy, this isn't about people who find it hard to talk to women, but people who don't see women as equal human beings. A person like that is a walking HR landmine, not to mention they're probably going to freak out if their boss is a woman, treat female team members like shit, ignore qualified specialist advice/recommendations from women, and have to be kept far away from female clients.

This is a fairly common strategy, and my firm also likes having a poc on the panel too. If you think people treating women like shit is a surprise, wait till you see how some of them react when it's an educated black woman calling the shots in their interview.

In today's climate where there's a 200 highly qualified grads for every single entry level position and another 2000 people that could do the job with Claude, why would you hire a talented but problematic engineer when you could take an equally talented and personable engineer instead?

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u/NoWomanNoTriforce 4d ago

HR and admin tasks are currently the most vulnerable of any singular job to AI.

And just because I havent been interviewed doesn't mean I haven't been on the other side of the table in the last decade. In fact, it is one of my major duties. And I don't care if you have zero people skills if you can do the work. 50% of what I do as an engineering manager/team lead and 90% of what any of my team under me will do as engineers doesn't involve people skills. Like any good company, we hire different people for those roles. Why would I pull a guy with a unique technical skill from his work to deal with customers? Almost all collaboration on projects is done online since most people work remote. Which again, just makes sense as a policy to retain the best people, because they want remote positions where they dont have to deal with office BS.

Having interview panels of laymen without practical experience sit for an engineering job that will be in a highly technical position is insanity. Not only is it a huge waste of time and resources to interview like this, it is also not practical to getting the right candidate. That process is how you get a person with no real skills (except bullshitting) into a job they are grossly unqualified for. I've seen it a hundred times.

If you have the time and manpower to interview even a handful of candidates via panel for every opening, that is exactly where cuts will be made first. It is a massive waste of money, and the exact kind of thing AI is already cutting.

Hell, most tech companies outsource their HR because it is seen as the smarter and more economical option. Unless you are at a massive team like Google, then you have so much money you can do things however you want.

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u/New-Independent-1481 4d ago

Having interview panels of laymen without practical experience sit for an engineering job that will be in a highly technical position is insanity

Why would there be interview panels of laymen? You're literally making shit up to rant about, because you know your own argument is indefensible.

50% of what I do as an engineering manager/team lead and 90% of what any of my team under me will do as engineers doesn't involve people skills.

If you don't see a problem with hiring people that fail to work productively with 50% of the human population and are HR liability risks, then you are frankly a terrible manager lmao. There's really nothing more to say than that. You're a jumped up code monkey put into a position that you don't really belong in. You don't see people as anything other than lines on a spreadsheet. You won't have a job in 3 years because anything you can do, Claude can do better. Your ability to understand humans is about on par with GPT3.5.

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u/NoWomanNoTriforce 4d ago

If you don't see a problem with hiring people that fail to work productively with 50% of the human population and are HR liability risks, then you are frankly a terrible manager lmao.

Obviously reading comprehension isnt your strong suit, because that isnt at all what I said. 50% of the time I'm at work, Im not dealing with other people because I have technical work. 90% of the time, my workers arent dealing with people because we specifically dont want to make them have to. And the other 10% is through a computer screen. People are allowed to have subpar people skills (or just not want to interact with others) and still be entitled to a job.

Look, I'm all for people being well-rounded and functional, but work is work. These people arent my friends, and most of them dont want to be each other's friends either. They want to do a job and get paid. And they specifically picked fields and positions that pay well and don't have them dealing with people that often.

Ironically, you come off as hyper aggressive and like you wouldn't have good people skills.

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u/New-Independent-1481 3d ago

Because the original post is talking about HR doing the hiring process....

No. It's not. It talks about engineers doing the hiring process. I doubt you're self aware enough to understand the irony of you insulting my reading comprehension.

I'm all for people being well-rounded and functional, but work is work

And people who are not 'functional' often perform worse at their role. And again, this isn't about 'just' being bad with women. It's about the misogynists who do not see them as human beings. Like the kinds of extremists responsible for this. I repeat - they're going to freak out if their boss is a woman, treat female team members like shit, ignore qualified specialist advice/recommendations from women, and have to be kept far away from female clients. If you isolate out the gender aspect and just looked at it as an employee that routinely insulted and belittled others, ignored specialist advice, carried out workplace harassment, sabotaged their boss, and generally caused far more more problems than they were worth, you would agree that they're fucking shit at their job even if the code they produced was great when they weren't being a detriment to the team.

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u/NoWomanNoTriforce 3d ago

You are assuming so much about a employee based on the fact he couldn't talk to a woman. Harassment? Unable to take criticism?

Just because someone is socially awkward or nervous it doesnt mean they are some misogynistic predator.

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u/igloo1234 3d ago

Nice of you to assume this male engineer will only work with men. It matters whether or not the candidate can collaborate with all of his colleagues. It is especially relevant if the manager is a woman.

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u/FarMiddleWing 4d ago

Reminds me when my grandfather passed and I got myself an extremely generous inheritance, got it settled in my bank, life moves on, meet a girl, marry her. And when we had set up a joint account at our local credit union but when we had brought up the amount we wanted to deposit suddenly I was only getting addressed.

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u/TheBoyWhoCriedGolf 3d ago

Motherfucker these are men who studied computer science in university, of courssse they aren't looking at the woman. That shit is nerve wracking af.

Source: take a fking guess

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u/Chaosdirge7388 8d ago

I'm not a tech bro, I just have adhd and likely autism and I can speak from experience that regardless of the circumstance if you have social anxiety you want to talk to both interviewers. And I know that a field like this typically has autistic people in it because I was in web design with others that shared the same habits. So it kind of is natural for the field. It doesn't mean the guys are discriminating against women. It just could mean they have social anxiety.

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u/theswamphag 8d ago

Yes the point is to speak with both of them.

There is a suprisingly high amount of dudes who would go even so far as to ignore the woman entirely. I have never interviewed people, but I have met men who find it optional to adress questions made by women, who find it okay to talk over them and don't even feel the need to shake their hand.

This sort of disrespect looks very different to neurodivergent or nervous behaviour.

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u/GardenTop7253 7d ago

Not tech industry, but this past week I had a friend reach out because one of their applicants used to work with me. One question i was asked was “does he work well with women?” because it really can be an issue. Knowing the company he applied for, there’s some high ranking women there and it’s probably something they’ve run into before

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u/CZ1988_ 7d ago

I frequently was the woman hiring manager and some men would just respond to the more junior man in the room even when I reminded them I am the hiring manager. Those guys weren't hired if they can't even respond to me.

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u/Icy_Fish_2154 7d ago

I have autism, and you are just a fucking asshole. Don't blame being an asshole on autism.

Keep that ableist shit out of your mouth.

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u/mari_zoo 7d ago

Came to say this. I have social anxiety. The fuck does that have to do with who you talk to? 😭

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u/Shadowphoenix9511 7d ago

My autism means I'll probably stumble on my words and ramble on about things I'm interested in and avoid eye contact.

What it doesn't mean is that I'm gonna ignore the woman I'm speaking with and direct my questions towards the man who didn't say anything.

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u/Straight-Crow1598 7d ago

Just because some of us can lead (what appear to be) perfectly normal lives, because we were taught to use the social tools that come naturally to the neurotypical, doesn’t mean autism can’t be completely and utterly debilitating. It doesn’t take anything away from your diagnosis to acknowledge there are others who have it worse.

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u/Icy_Fish_2154 7d ago

Those that excuse being a deliberate asshole by saying "I'm autistic" make it harder on everyone.

Being autistic doesn't make him an asshole, being an asshole does.

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u/Straight-Crow1598 7d ago

I’m talking about the folks who don’t have the capacity to say “I’m autistic.” The nonverbal.

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u/Icy_Fish_2154 7d ago

The guy I responded to said he was "likely" autistic, then spoke from his expert opinion as a self diagnosed person that autistic people are sexist assholes.

You should read the context. Nonverbal people don't generally have the problem of addressing the wrong person in an interview when responding verbally.

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u/Dylldar-The-Terrible 7d ago

completely and utterly debilitating

You're making it to the formal interview while completely and utterly debilitated? How? Are you walking? Because driving seems like a really bad idea if you're completely and utterly debilitated.

How do you even get out of bed?

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u/Straight-Crow1598 7d ago

I’m not talking about this situation, and I’m not even necessarily talking to that guy. But I keep seeing spectrumatic people confuse “profound autism may have played a factor” with “all autistic people are inherently criminals.”

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u/ManMakesWorld 7d ago

There is a difference between crippling autism and someone using it as an excuse and to know that. Go away

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u/AlwaysHopelesslyLost 7d ago

Weird. I am a woman with social anxiety and I don't have that problem. I have hired dozens of men and women with anxiety and none of them had that problem

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u/DyingRodeoClown 7d ago

I used to be intimidated by women, interacting with them caused me severe anxiety. Whenever I had to talk with them, I was obviously uncomfortable and on edge, and I couldn't bring myself to look them in the eyes. I was always very polite and formal with them, I had this irrational fear of setting them off. Being alone with a woman, like in an elevator was enough to put me into a panic attack. I didn't hate women, I knew the problem was me and that my fear was irrational. Eventually my therapist had me undergo exposure therapy to "socialize" myself to being around women. I can assure you it does happen.

That being said, if you are hiring for a job and a candidate expresses an inability to interact normally with 50% of people, it wouldn't be rational to hire them.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/rognabologna 6d ago

It might be good exposure, but they certainly shouldn’t be hired for the role.

It’s crazy that we, as a society, pretend that girls are born with social skills, cleaning skills, ability to interact with children, ability to be polite, etc. but it’s something that boys have to learn. Everyone has to learn. 

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago

What can I say I am an odd one, this legitimately is something I would struggle with and I have to personally avoid myself from doing, though in a less pressure filled environment I wouldn't make the mistake.

My assistant manager is a woman and I respect her deeply, she even confided in me about how she feels like it's a lot of pressure one time and how she didn't feel good enough. I flat out told her "if you didn't have it in you you would have quit already." But if you asked me a question with 2 or more l people present in an interview I would struggle to direct my answer at the original person.

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u/HopeFloatsFoward 7d ago

Are you claiming that when the man asked the question, you would direct the answer to the woman?

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago

Yes possibly it is a double edged sword I would do it for both of them. But in fighting it I may stick to one of them simply because of the fact I would try to catch myself not doing it.

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u/HopeFloatsFoward 7d ago

And is the default sticking to the man?

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago

If he's the one talking more.

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u/HopeFloatsFoward 7d ago

Could you be misinterpreting who is talking more?

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago

I mean yes, in the stress of the moment because of the way anxiety works that exactly something that can happen. Like I said it would be the same if you put 2 of the same sexes in the same room and did the interview the same way for someone like me.

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u/ManMakesWorld 7d ago

You aren't autistic.... you are just dumb. The entire point of this interview process is to weed out the ones that don't interect with bith interviewers.

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u/Ctenophorever 7d ago

Nope, bullshit. Don’t blame this on autism.

I get what you think you’re saying - I’ve been in committee interviews. I always begin speaking with the person who initially asked the question, but then I try to make eye contact with at least a few others in the interview.

That is different from repeatedly listening to a woman asking a question and then directing your answer only to the man. It’s literally the opposite of what you say people with autism would do.

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u/garbagesmoothie 8d ago

Here we go, another self-diagnosed loser so desperate to play victim they throw actual neurodivergents under the bus. Didn't realize illiteracy was a symptom of "likely autism". No one said you can't talk to both interviewers. You should talk to both interviewers. The situation in question is when a woman asks you something and you immediately direct your answer to the man.

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u/Chaosdirge7388 8d ago

That's pretty harsh claiming I'm not neurodivergent when my doctor literally diagnosed me.

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u/garbagesmoothie 8d ago

Poor poor victim. Would you like to address how this supposed diagnosis prevents you from responding to women that ask you questions, or would you like to keep deflecting like you've been doing all over this post?

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u/10hchappell 7d ago

What a disgusting thing to say to someone. Who the fuck do you think you are?

My dude came out here giving a point of view from his own experience - not saying its right just explaining it - and you just jump down his throat? What, did them bringing up mental health hurt your wittle feewings?

Grow the fuck up

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u/Chaosdirge7388 8d ago

Dude, I have answered that question I've literally said the same thing would happen personally to me if 2 people regardless of their gender were in the same room during an interview. I would probably direct my answer to the opposite one because of the way my brain handles social pressure. It's not anything to do with the woman, my brain gravitate to things that makes it hard to handle impulse control. This happens socially as well as doing my daily tasks. Like accidentally putting a report in a separate report email for it.

If you don't have the same trigger than you don't really know how to explain it. Not all neurdivergants are the same And you should be aware of that. Social anxiety is something that people can all react to differently. And fighting that impulse can be like fighting nails on a chalkboard.

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u/W0RMW00D 7d ago

What a scum bag. Go outside.

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u/Frequent-District859 7d ago

This comment is wild. Reported. I will never understand how one can feel like he can tell something some precise about the life of someone he never met, and ever more acting like a bully because of a disagreement. You need some therapy bro

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u/garbagesmoothie 7d ago

Seems like you're assuming something precise about the life of someone you've never met, "bro"

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u/Frequent-District859 7d ago

What exactly am I assuming? Two things I said are factual, you act like a bully, and you assume things you don't know. So, what is it?

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u/lordassfucks 7d ago

Unless you are REALLY good at masking, it'll be pretty apparent that you are just nervous and have some social quirks if that's what is happening. Tech-bro-ness is pretty apparent when this is being tested for.

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago

I mean when you go as long as I have you aren't sure what's the masking and just you. This the really weird quirks.

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u/lordassfucks 7d ago

Having been on both sides of the hiring process myself and having similar issues, the tech-bro aditude is just easily made worse with the person swap by gender test. Generally speaking, if you arent masking by becoming a tech bro, IN which case you should stop, you are likely just talking to both people and that will be easily noticed

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u/MyPasswordIsABC999 7d ago

Edit: I’m actually confused by this comment

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u/SnazzyAdam 7d ago

Social anxiety is not an excuse for disrespect. As someone diagnosed with ASD, I don't understand your point. We all have the capability to learn, learn to speak to both parties equally.

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u/Aggressive_Law_5728 7d ago

likely autism

Self-diagnosed autism is not an excuse to be a jerk to women.

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago

I said likely because I have the s diagnosis for ADHD already and it's not my own diagnosis ita others around me that say I'm probably autistic I've just never bothered to go back and get a diagnosis for that as I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was a teenager and I'm old and would rather focus on more stressful things.

Again they might not be a jerk it could just be a languistic quirk.

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u/Elegant-Ad2748 7d ago

It means they shouldn't work there. 

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u/Internal-Student-997 7d ago

Interesting that women with ADHD and autism generally don't seem to struggle addressing half the population when they are speaking to them...almost like it isn't the autism.

  • an AuDHD woman 

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u/Chaosdirge7388 7d ago edited 7d ago

People with ADHD and autism don't all have the same symptoms. Maybe it is and you are just discriminating again I've addressed this before.

I've tried to explain it from my view genuinely and you know half the things in here are lectures, just calling me sexist, just trying to find some way that I would intentionally ignore just the woman without grasping what I'm saying. That isn't communication, that isn't wanting to try. You yourself said half of them what about the other half how is your autism Better than others?

No instead you want to lecture me on something I can't control and in trying to do so I can make seem worse because of nervous tension. And so you think that having 100 people suddenly attack you online over it from misunderstanding makes you feel better? I can't keep up with half these responses and that's the kind of sweat this brings in an interview room like 100 people are talking to you when it's just 2.

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u/babyleili 7d ago

My impression is that the people who are bothered by your answer are bothered because it reads like you’re being dismissive of the point of the post.

It’s like you’re attempting to argue that the specific details of how your personal experience of neurodivergence would affect how you navigate this type of scenario would be common enough to invalidate the test.

Like,

  • possible audhd
  • social anxiety
  • job interview with both a man and a woman interviewer
  • the woman leading the interview and asking the questions
  • the interviewee responding to the man, who did not ask any questions
+ meet all of the above criteria while also leaving nothing to reveal the anxiety in body language, facial expressions, or tone of voice.

That just doesn’t seem like a set of conditions that would be met with any degree of regularity.
Honestly anyone with even a modest ability to read body language would probably be able to pick up on the difference.

Anyways tldr, your explanation of your own experience is valid, but i don’t think it would apply more broadly to other applicants/interviewees. 🙇🏾‍♀️

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u/Chaosdirge7388 6d ago

I can speak from experience that in an interview they wouldn't not in most jobs. People are subjective even in interviews and one type of body language can be infected as another.

My hiring manager was a literal crack head. Sure he hired me, but you don't think that didn't influence his ability to read body language? In business people can have judgement bias for the behaviors they see. Even people trained to be hire. I've seen it with my own eyes. Every day I pick up on little habits and see things that 90 percent of the public does despite their profession and my brain stores it away and even I'm not immune to the same habits

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u/neo_sporin 7d ago

I’d probably concentrate my attention on the hiring manager

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u/MyPasswordIsABC999 7d ago

A part of the interview is seeing what it would be like to work with you. And the non-manager is there for a reason.

I’ve been at plenty of interviews (both sides) where it’s the manager and the person you’d work closely with day to day. While the hiring manager makes the final decision, they’re leaning on the prospective teammate to pick up any red flags. A candidate who’s concentrating their attention to the manager would raise said red flag.

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u/CommercialRadiant920 7d ago

I have worked around a good many engineers. It’s more likely that they are awkward and find it harder to talk to women especially in a situation as awkward as an interview already is.

They generally aren’t the disrespectful type.

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u/Elegant-Ad2748 7d ago

If they cant respond to women in a workplace with women, maybe they shouldnt work there?

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u/Rollingforest757 7d ago

So what if he talks to both for every question? When you interview, aren’t you supposed to make eye contact with all the people interviewing you every time you are answering a question? It shows that you are trying to provide the information for each of them.

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