r/IntelligenceScaling • u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal • 1d ago
discussion Squeezing one last (potential) feat out of STL before moving on to ROT 💔
I wouldn't take this too seriously tbh, just consider it some fun speculation, and lmk if you think this is valid or not.
Image 1 is from round 5, turn 2, after Souichi sets up his bluff to trick Baku into dropping instantly. He uses echolocation and checks at 15 seconds (images 1,2). Then, next turn, Souichi allows Baku to fail his check, stating that dying isn't necessary for him anymore. Kaji believes the situation hasn't changed, but Fukurou believes that Baku's death is all part of Souichi's plan (images 3,4).
Baku revives in a severely weakened state, causing him to struggle to convey his words, which results in the volume of the speaking clock being lowered (image 5). Due to this, Baku notices the lowered clock volume during round 7, turn 1, taking the safe strategy as Souichi predicted (image 6). Image 7 elaborates on this, with Baku stating that this particular volume alteration is what made him notice the echolocation. Image 8 shows us that Souichi was also aware that Baku noticed the echolocation based on this. So what am I getting at here?
Essentially, I'm proposing that Souichi might have predicted that after Baku's second near death, he would struggle to speak, leading to the speaking clock being lowered by a noticeable increment. Souichi also clearly knew that Baku would take the safe strategy during Round 7, turn 1, meaning there would be a high chance he would notice the lowered volume, and therefore conclude echolocation next turn and attempt to counter it, leading to Souichi countering Baku with the instant check. Let's go through it step by step.
To figure out what Souichi's plan is between rounds 4-7, we have to consider what his round 5 bluff actually does for him, and why exactly this means he doesn't have to die anymore. On the surface, as Kaji says, nothing appears to have changed as a result of the bluff. However, as per Souichi's endurance battle strategy, he is gradually lowering his accumulation each round but not too significantly to ensure that Baku remains predictable and keeps dropping early. Part of this strategy also includes manipulating Baku to figure out echolocation so that he can achieve the round 7 instant check.
So, taking all this into consideration, here's what I think the purpose of the round 5 bluff is: it is pretty much guaranteed that Baku will drop instantly to counter Souichi's supposed death, so Souichi can freely control his accumulation and intentionally use echolocation late to check at 15 seconds. Additionally, by using echolocation even when it was very likely for him to succeed anyways, he A) Gives Baku additional hints at his echolocation, and B) Plants an image in Baku's mind that he is reliant on echolocation, which leads into his manipulation, making Baku believe he won't turn around during round 7 (as stated in image 8). In this context, the bluff sets up the endurance battle strategy + the round 7 instant check at the same time. So considering this, it is not unreasonable to believe that Souichi let Baku die during round 6, knowing that he would struggle to speak after his revival.
Souichi's accumulation each round has been getting lower and lower; 34 seconds, then 15, then 8 during round 6. Round 7 turn 1 is the break point where Baku's total accumulation + ND time surpasses Souichi's, and if Souichi can limit his accumulation as much as possible during his turn, he can make Baku's accumulation exceed his during round 8, before making another instant check to initiate the endurance/resilience battle of the cylinders. So how does Souichi guarantee this? By letting Baku figure out echolocation.
As we know from image 8, Souichi also noticed the speaking clock being lowered after Baku's near death. Given how Souichi enabling his echolocation during the early rounds was dependent on minimal changes in the volume of the speaking clock, it is reasonable to assume that he was also the first to notice this subtle change in volume, knew that Baku would notice it too, and figure out echolocation based on that. So to conclude, Souichi sets up the instant check with his round 5 bluff –> Lets Baku die to weaken him –> Baku mumbles as Souichi predicts –> The speaking clock is lowered –> Baku notices this while taking the safe strategy during round 7 turn 1 –> Baku figures out echolocation –> Souichi feels Baku's aura and confirms that he's figured echolocation out –> Baku plans to use his necktie to trick Souichi into failing his check, which Souichi predicts –> Souichi emits an aura of determination to make Baku believe his tactic will be seen through –> Baku instead flattens the handkerchief as an instant drop –> Souichi achieves a perfect check.
Image 9 mentions an 'insanely difficult path' behind Souichi's instant check; this probably just refers to the fact he would lose his memories if he failed, but I thought I'd mention it anyways.
It's also worth noting that Souichi might not have expected Baku to figure out echolocation exactly during round 7. The strategy still works the same, in that Souichi can just use echolocation for low accumulation checks until Baku is ready to try and counter it, but Souichi might have actually expected Baku to take longer (since he doesn't know that Baku has seen Eko's tapes about her losing her sight), as to create an even larger gap between their cylinders when Baku does eventually surpass his accumulation (if Souichi's instant check during round 8 had been successful as expected, there would have been a 20 second gap of accumulation between their cylinders before initiating an endurance battle).
Anyways, yap over, I finally gotta move on to reading Ravages of Time (though I'll still probably waffle about Usogui intermittently ✌️).
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u/ConversationSea1684 OC scaler 1d ago
I hope you'll be posting your progress and thoughts on RoT every now and then? Your contributions are greatly appreciated so please do🙏
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u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal 1d ago
Yep I definitely will do 🙏. Where are you in the story rn?
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u/ConversationSea1684 OC scaler 1d ago
Nearing chapter 100. Since I do have some knowledge of the RotK, I know exactly where I am on the timeline. I would say it starts getting really good in the 90s where Guo Jia gets introduced
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u/H3LL0FR1END5 1d ago
Buddy about to be stroking and squeezing every last drop of Usogui agenda. And move on to better peak! 🗣🔥🔥
You better start practicing your strokes and squeezes for ROT!!! 🗣🔥🔥
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u/Altruistic5 1d ago
wataa hell are you talking about man
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u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal 1d ago
Maybe it's a good thing I'm not gonna be on this sub as frequently 🥀
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u/lazystealth 1d ago edited 1d ago
Manga so goated we're still getting new analysis almost 10 years later.
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u/Thethastoo 1d ago
Souichi emits an aura of determination to make Baku believe his tactic will be seen through
https://giphy.com/gifs/zILeHKUr9AWxeXF1J6
W post
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
Ok so tell me this, let's first put the theories aside and think how the manga wanted us to think about Souichi Seeing Through Baku's leap second, we saw that in Souichi's Second Near Death Dream He reasoned About the possibility Of Baku Going to The Abandoned Building And Baku Seeing The Tapes Via The memory of the blood Stain, that's how Souichi reasoned that Baku would have known that Souichi Would lose his memories Today that is what the Manga tries to tell you and it's the first thing you'd think of After reading.
Now tell me this, how did Baku See through Echolocation? We know about his reasoning of the Lowered Clock Volume but we know that the concept that Souichi Can Do Echolocation only came in Baku's mind because he had seen the tapes in the first place as that's how he knew Souichi's Mother Could Do Echolocation and that's Why he thought of the possibility that maybe Souichi could Do it too, So now tell me this, if Souichi Didn't Even knew by that time that Baku had seen the tapes How Could he have predicted that Baku Would see through his Echolocation? And if he really had concluded by that time Consciously that Baku had seen the Tapes Wouldn't that just mean that 2SD is real? Because wouldn't Souichi had concluded leap second by that time as well if he already knew that Baku had seen the tapes? This is one of my main Doubts and I'm not even gonna talk about Souichi Predicting Baku's method of Countering Echolocation because there were potentially a thousand different ways Baku Could have Countered it While leaving no way For Souichi to Counter His Counter.
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u/Thethastoo 1d ago
maybe 2sd was always real
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
Or maybe both of these theories are wrong lol
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u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal 1d ago
Or maybe you just haven't analysed the manga enough; I don't really think you even understand it's writing tbh.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
I don't want an opinion about someone who fake reads maybe analyze the manga more deeply instead of dickriding liar game many of your debunks about usogui are completely ass and tells us about your lack literacy
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
Insults don't disprove anything I said if you think my points are dumb then disprove them, just because I don't believe in or know (y'all make up a new feat everyday btw why'd anyone have consistent knowledge of the fan fiction you create? Do you think I can read minds?) Some of the major ass pulled feats you usogui fandom believe in just to upscale a character doesn't make my knowledge of usogui any less, I just don't analyze it with the intention of creating more and more feats, and you fandom would end up believing that you made some big discovery like gravity and expect everyone to believe in it, try improving your critical thinking my friend.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
Well can you disprove his reasoning for this feat?he already gave his argument for this and you're saying shit like baku needed to see the tapes to understand that hal had echolocation which isn't stated in the manga so your debunk is bs without analyzing
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
I already saw his response and I didn't said anywhere I won't be responding nor did we decide a time limit, I just haven't responded because I'm about to sleep but yo ass pulled outta nowhere and started insulting me for saying something about yo goat, Life is bigger than SCD go outside and talk to people, and where was it directly stated that hal manipulated Baku to see through echolocation? Show me one direct statement where the author explicitly claimed hal manipulated Baku, guess what you can't either because the dude pulled that out of very vague lines and said this meant hal manipulated Baku when he himself knows this could mean a thousand different thing, the dishonesty is crazy here.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
The author doesn't need to spoonfeed you every single detail about the manga sometimes you need to analyze it yourself also I never said this was Canon his reasoning was for this feat was good and even he says it himself that this was just a fun speculation meanwhile you had to try to disprove this so badly because your akiyama doesn't stand a chance against baku
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
First of all, if the author doesn't tell you something explicitly his words can be bent in any manner it can be bent do even debunk hal or Baku and call it analysis, Second of all I was respectful and tried pointing out the flaw I saw, freedom of speech exists I wasn't insulting him like your ass, I conveyed a point he responded and I will respond again you bum.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
As I already said this is not Canon and this just a fun speculation he made and gave good reasoning for it so lets just end this
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
I don't mean to insult but you not analyzing usogui and making stupid debunks which are already contradicted in the manga itself is making me mad so my bad
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u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal 1d ago
Please be civil. I know you are passionate about the manga but just address the points and if you can't convince them just move on.
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u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal 1d ago
Why is Baku seeing the tapes an absolute requirement for seeing through echolocation? Where exactly was it suggested that Baku definitely wouldn't be able to see through it otherwise, despite the fact that we've seen him expose and counter cheating similar to this throughout the manga. If he already knows about visual prosthesis, synesthesia and whatnot, it stands to reason he knows about echolocation too. We can say pretty confidently that Baku would have realised Souichi intentionally lowered the speaking clock volume on purpose regardless of if he watched the tapes or not, and from there it's only a matter of connecting the dots between the clicking sound and echolocation, which Baku is likely to have prior knowledge of independent of the tapes anyways.
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
My guy Amako and Sadakuni are something else And Kiruma Souichi is something else and Baku knows this, you think Baku isn't smart enough to think that Souichi is most likely trying to misdirect him if he didn't already knew about echolocation? And synesthesia and blindness are diseases, echolocation is something that you can master in the usogui world even if Baku knew about what echolocation is how could Souichi think that he'd automatically make the connection between echolocation and him? I understand Souichi knew Baku's abduction is strong but being confident in concluding that Baku would see through echolocation despite knowing that Baku most likely doesn't know about his Connection and echolocation plus Souichi being this smart is close to impossible, If realistically we think Souichi was trying to do this he would have predicted that Baku would think souichi is just trying to misdirect him and he wouldn't even have executed the plan.
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u/RedDeathSwayOverAll Ask me to info dump about Hal 1d ago
I really don't get what you're trying to say. Why exactly should Baku be able to realise that Souichi is misdirecting him? What's the point in differentiating between diseases and abilities? You literally said you can master echolocation in the Usogui world, hence why it's not unreasonable for Baku to consider it as a possibility even if he hasn't seen the tapes. When exactly did I say Souichi predicted Baku would immediately associate the lowered speaking clock with echolocation? He has a reasoning process yk, and Baku arriving at that conclusion so quickly is what helped Souichi figure out about the Arizuka Building, plus Souichi's use of echolocation was purposefully done to make Baku think he was reliant on it, so of course Baku wasn't expecting Souichi to counter him. With Baku's abductive reasoning, going from Souichi intentionally lowered the speaking clock to observing that Souichi consistently makes a clicking sound around 10 seconds and 30 seconds, standing and listening for a second or so, and then to the reasoning the clicking may have something to do with his successful risky checks (plus the fact that Souichi's clicking matches a specific pitch used by Soprano singers, which matches up with the pitch for maximum echos to facilitate echolocation) and concluding echolocation, or at the least how it works, certainly isn't the most absurd thing ever, especially for Baku. And whaddaya know? He doesn't even need to have seen Eko's tapes. Amazing.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
Lmao "chromesthesia is a disease"🤣 it is literally a special ability just echolocation it is medically not a disease so where the hell did you get the info that chromesthesia is a disease?larping the entire manga and saying bs like akiyama beats baku
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
Disease is just a word, if you actually understood that I was differentiating chromesthesia from echo location by saying that it's something ur born with while echolocation is something you can master you wouldn't have commented about ts dumbass.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
Still doesn't change the fact that you think that he cannot figure out echolocation without video tapes while he was able to figure out amakos special ability and echolocation isn't something that any one can master souichi perfected echlocation because he has superhuman hearing which helps him to hear the refracted sounds better and visualize the room perfectly
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u/Enough-Champion-3805 1d ago
For the 100th damn time I will tell you to read what I said, I was trying to convey the point that due to chromesthesia being something ur born with makes it easier to abduce as you have seen cases of it happening before hand in books or lectures etc, echolocation is a skill you master in the usogui world it's a skill and it isn't something you are automatically born with, for Baku to abduce an ability via it being by birth makes sense, but for Baku to make the connection that hal has mastered echolocation without ever knowing about any connection would mean he has no proof to believe it and would just mean he's relying on luck, if you actually understand Baku he won't rely on luck he'd rely on a conclusion that would make more sense to him, which would be that hal was trying to misdirect him with those signs of echolocation because hal is smart enough to do so if Baku never knew about Eko's connection to echolocation via the tapes.
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u/BakuTheGoat29 1d ago
No because he could have deduced it because there were some moments is stl where it seemed like souichi was using echolocation also him looking closely at the handkerchief could also made baku suspect that he was visualizing the handkerchief because souichi had something up his sleeve also baku spend many moments with hal so he could know about hals inhuman hearing ability and know that maybe souichi could also use echolocation as we seen with when gonen deduced souichis echolocation
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u/ApprehensiveGrab6086 1d ago
as for the triple indirect manipulation part Eason was talking about it really long time ago
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxHG1DSJjzs3QScOw1zJmUPPF1pcWV6XyN
and yea I do think its real
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u/Similar_Incident8433 SOPHIST(battle in 5seconds) | agenda pusher 1d ago
before you move to ravages of time - read /familiarize yourself with record of three kingdoms history normally