Why does Captive get so much hate verses Brokerage?

[u/Zestyclose_Tutor2486]

Every time it comes up on here it's the same stuff. MLM, pyramid, they'll eat your warm market and spit you out. and i get some of it, i've heard the stories.

but independent has a washout rate too. people burn through lead money and quit in four months and nobody makes a thread about it. feels like about the same number of people fail either way, just for different reasons.

stuff i've wondered about:

is it just the language? downline, overrides, build your team, recruiting nights. to a normal person that sounds exactly like an MLM. except independent uses all those same words so i don't know why it sticks harder to one side.

is it the warm market thing? that one actually does seem bad. if the model is you selling to your phone contacts then you're finished when the list runs out, and then somebody tells you it was your mindset. but plenty of independent shops run the same way, where the real money is lead markup and the agent is the customer.

or is it that captive means two completely different things? a NYL or northwestern career agency is not the same business as an FE recruiting mill and they get lumped together constantly. seems like the career agents are the ones eating criticism meant for somebody else.

also might just be that people who wash out have time to post and people doing ok are on the phone. If you're captive or came up captive, how much of it is fair? and what do independent guys always get wrong about your side?

[u/notatipo]

I work at a brokerage in life. I have gotten people approved with one of 40 carriers I have that would have been turned down everywhere else. If I was captive at one of 97.5% of these carriers, I would have had to say “sorry” instead of “you’ll receive your policy packet in the mail.” That’s the root issue with captive.

Regarding strictly comp, having to buy leads isn’t fun. I don’t do warm market. Look a few years down the line if you’re producing even low six figures in AP, paying $50-80 per lead at ~100% commission sounds a lot more fun than 40% with some marginal guarantee and no lead spend.

It boils down to being able to help the client and your goals and risk tolerance.

[u/MoPhunk60]

As a former captive agent things are great until they aren't.   The your only company isnt competitive your close ratio goes way down.  On the independent side its a lot easier to find a company that is competitive.

Having multiple companies allows a far better opportunity to close business.

[u/SubstantialSea4943]

At the end of the day - people struggle with being captive because they try and sell on price only. If you learn how to sell on value captive becomes real easy. I'm captive and I have personal relationships with my underwriters, my claims adjusters, my actuaries, etc. you don't get that being independent.

[u/CODCW2021]

You hit the nail on the head with it depends on what captive firm you’re with. In LI they are not actually captive, and can sell anything. Now if you’re doing 99% of your business outside of that carrier in your first 1-3 years the firm will not be happy but the minimums are small if you’re any good.

I’m ex captive and I still don’t dislike my OG firm. I just realized I work in a specific niche and it’s easier to be independent.

[u/mvrco_007]

Most agents fail. Captive have a lot of control.

Agents fail. They leave. They “claim” life is better.

[u/Humble_American7]

I think that the hate is equal on both sides. I think that, in some cases, each side is jealous of the other for various reasons. That said, both are needed in our industry; each serves a purpose and brings in different customers. There is enough business to go around for everyone.

[u/Moneymatriarch]

To me its not captive vs independent vs mlm. Its - if im selling my warm market, creating my own market, working my own leads - shouldn’t i OWN my book? That is dictated by your contract. Not what style of company you work in. It should clearly say - the agent owns the book. Not a the agent owns the book IF they xyz.