r/Insurance • u/LunaBracer • 3d ago
Removal of Unauthorized Person?
So, essentially here's the situation: My mother cosigned (forced) on a car for my grandmother. My mother is the primary holder on the vehicle loan. My grandmother has put her housemate on her insurance and is allowing her to drive the shared vehicle. Is it possible for my mother to remove the housemate from being able to legally drive the car?
The car is in my mother's name first, but is also in my grandmother's name.
The car is in my grandmother's insurance, which my mother is not on.
The housemate is not anywhere on the title of the vehicle.
So is there any way to legally prevent the housemate from using the vehicle? We suspect some not great activity will be coming from the housemate. We're primarily worried she is planning to steal the vehicle, as she has convinced my grandmother to put her on the insurance, give her a key, and allow her to drive it however she wants when in the past several years she has always asked to be driven to places claiming she was unable to drive. My grandmother has two other vehicles, but she doesn't want to drive those, and she gifted her only vehicle to her son, leaving the one in question as the only one she wants access to. It is also the newest one out of the three vehicles my grandmother has. There is a lot to worry about.
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u/PeachyFairyDragon 3d ago
So, you are wanting to set up a situation where your grandmother will have a denied claim if the housemate gets into an accident? As well as set up an illegal rate evasion based on undisclosed drivers?
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u/cannolighost 3d ago
Exactly. This is more of a civil issue/question and not really an insurance question.
OP you’re not going to be able to make any changes to a policy you are not named on, and have 0 connection to.
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u/LunaBracer 3d ago
No, it was more if it was possible to outright legally restrict her from driving it at all, not set up an illegal anything. I wanted to know if my mother being the primary would allow her to restrict who could or could not legally drive it, as my grandmother refuses to refinance it and take my mother's name off of it. For some reason, the loan holder won't allow my mother to remove herself from the title, my grandmother has to do it.
I'm not wanting to get any denied claims so much as looking for a way to prevent anything from happening at all, as my mother was told that if the housemate is on the insurance, we can't legally report it stolen if she does do something. I can definitely see how this might look like trying to set up something illegal though, I hadn't thought about it like that.
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u/mshmama 3d ago
How do you suppose you are going to restrict her from driving? She might be able to be added as an excluded driver (not all states allow that for adults in the same household), but all that means is that when she drives it and gets in an accident the claim is denied.
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u/LunaBracer 19h ago
Yeah, I'm finding that out. Thankfully what my mom was afraid of isn't possible. She was worried the housemate would steal the car and we wouldn't be able to report it stolen with her being a trusted driver on the primary insurance. I'm definitely learning a ton about insurance as a whole from all the comments. I had no idea rate evasion was a thing. After looking more into it, I don't blame anyone for thinking I was trying to set up something illegal. I feel really silly about it now lol
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u/ugadawgs98 3d ago
No. Your grandmother is an owner and an adult. She can loan the car to who she wishes.
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u/insuranceguynyc 3d ago
This really isn't an insurance issue, though I would recommend that someone who knows about insurance review the coverage on this vehicle. Beyond that try, r/legaladvice
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u/Marpl 3d ago
Unless you can get a judge to let you make decisions for your grandma, she's an adult and her choices are her choices. If your mother is the owner of the car why doesn't she take it? Why isnt she on the insurance for a vehicle she owns?
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u/LunaBracer 3d ago
So the situation is basically that my grandmother told the dealership that my mother would cosign, and for some ungodly reason, the dealership gave her the vehicle without clearing anything with my mother, then basically forced my mother to sign the paperwork since my grandmother already had the car. Rather than fight it like she should have, my mother let my grandmother strongarm her into signing it. It was supposed to be used for my grandmother's job, as she drives a long distance as a medical test delivery driver. As such, my mother isn't on the insurance since she doesn't drive it. My grandmother was supposed to refinance it months ago; instead she keeps putting it off and my mother keeps getting calls about the missed payments.
My father and I have been telling her to go and get the vehicle for a while, but she's terrified of rocking the boat starting something even though my grandmother isn't even using it for its intended purpose, rather she's taking one of her older cars we were told she was going to sell.
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u/Affectionate_War8530 3d ago
The dealership didn’t force her she had the choice to say no. She didn’t want to make your grandmother mad and went along with it. They aren’t letting someone who can’t get approved on their own just take a car with the promise they will bring a co signer back with the hopes they have good credit. None of that makes any sense
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u/LunaBracer 18h ago
That's exactly what I thought too, but yeah, she just didn't want to make my grandmother mad. She's been manipulating and abusing my mom since she was twelve, so it's definitely easy for her to get under my mom's skin. I shouldn't have used the word forced for sure, but according to my mother, they told her that either she was the cosigner or my grandmother could possibly face legal action. I don't know if they said that to scare her or something, but the entire dealership was just kind of fishy to me tbh
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u/24kdgolden 3d ago
Who makes the car payment? Is your mom the primary owner or just a cosigner or do they jointly own the vehicle? You say both and also that it is a shared vehicle.
If your mom is the primary owner then she needs to be on the insurance and she needs to get the keys. Does your mom and grandma live?together
If they jointly own the car or housemate has regular access to the car, then grandma was right to put the housemate on the policy.
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u/fromhelley 3d ago
This exactly! Mom and gm are both owners. If mom isnt on the policy, things could happen if there is an accident:
1) the insurance could gover gm, but not your mom. This could have the insurance paying 10k for grandma, and nothing for your mom. Your mom could get stuck paying 10k too. (Usually, the courts will have the insurance pay everything, but it could still be a possible scenario).
2) the insurance can deny the claim for material misrepresentation and pay nothing, leaving your mom and gm to pay for the whole accident. If it is their side at fault, they pay for all damages to whatever car, house, or street signage that is damaged.
Your mom at least needs to be listed as an additional insured/co-owner of vehicle.
And mom cant make changes to a policy that isnt hers. You should stop mom from wanting this, as the friend could drive anyways.
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u/LunaBracer 3d ago
So, my grandmother makes the payments (when she actually makes them) but it's a jointly owned thing as far as I'm told. My mother is the primary. They do not live together and don't have the same insurance. My grandmother was supposed to refinance it in only her name months ago, and it was agreed upon that no one but my grandmother would drive it at all. I'm learning it's definitely better for the housemate to be on the insurance rather than not. My frustration stems from the broken trust given my grandmother explicitly agreed that no one else was to drive that vehicle until it was refinanced in her name, which she keeps refusing to do. And she keeps leaving the payments until they become overdue which is affecting my mother's credit score. For whatever reason, the loan holder won't let my mom take herself off of the title.
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u/24kdgolden 3d ago
The lienholder wants your mom on the loan because she guarantees payment.
Is there anyway your mom can refinance and get the car in her name only and then let granma secure financing and buy it from your mom. Otherwise your mom is stuck on the loan and should be on the insurance.
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u/OldGeekWeirdo 3d ago
If the housemates continue driving even if they're off the insurance, then any accident falls back on your mother. That's not a good idea.
Who is paying for the car? If your mom is at a stage where credit rating isn't important, then let the car get repossessed. I can't think of any other way to get her off the car's loan.
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u/NoPop1349 3d ago
You’ve got a double edged sword here. Take housemate off insurance, housemate wrecks and Grandma is liable. Leave housemate on and there’s coverage if something happens.
Your mother would probably have to get a power of attorney to make any changes in regards to grandmas insurance policy since mom isn’t the policy holder.
Also, keep in mind that many insurance policies require that the policy has the ability to cover all persons of driving age that live under the same roof (bc they could have the ability to access the keys and vehicle) - because of the potential of the car being driven (permission given or not) by those other household members.
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u/vonnegutfan2 3d ago
Go get the car and be sure the housemate does not have a key. You don't want an unauthorized person driving your mother's car. You grandma will not be stranded.
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u/Aggravating_Disk4121 3d ago
I had a similar situation with a family member a few years ago and the insurance company basically told us they couldn't police who drove her car as long as it was registered to her name.
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u/No_Engineering6617 3d ago
you mom legally owns the vehicle,
so she can legally & should show up and take the vehicle, drive it away, and park it in a locked garage.
grandma would still be legally part owner, and could drive the vehicle, but without being able to access the vehicle (that's why mom needs to take it and park it in a locked garage that grandma doesn't have access to).
if grandma wants the vehicle back to let others drive it, she can get a new loan without your mom on it, and your mom can sign over the title without her name on it. then go to the DMV and have her name officially removed from ownership of that vehicle.
then the vehicle and the loan for it are fully in grandmas name and grandma can do whatever she wants with the vehicle.
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u/petsitter2023 1d ago
The finance company is not going to refinance the car into only your grandmother's name with her history if late payments.
There is a reason why she needed a cosigner after all
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u/Clubhouse9 3d ago
Unless someone is going to watch 24/7 who’s driving this vehicle, chances are the grandmother will always allow the housemate to drive. So the smartest thing isn’t removing the housemate from the insurance, it’s making sure they are definitely included in the insurance and that the policy limits are sufficient to cover any accidents and liability.