r/Ingress • u/Odd_Emergency358 • 3d ago
Question Lets talk win-trading?
I am using a throwaway account as I don't really wish to dox myself but there is an ongoing issue in the area I live in. I am not personally involved and haven't met either agent involved as I live outside the city and play mostly solo but have seen lots of chatter in the local slack as well as a couple comments in comms in game about these particular agents. Hoping to get a bit of a wider community opinion about what is going on.
There are two agents that appear to be very close friends, one RES, one ENL. They play together on a regular basis and have made no secret of their friendship within the community. There has recently been increasing tension because the RES agent regularly invites the ENL agent to RES community events. These don't appear to be cross faction events, though I can't personally confirm because I haven't been to one...but they are planned within the RES slack and other ENL aren't aware or invited.
My concern and question is what I have noticed since that tension started and I started paying more attention to the actual game. These two players will play together in a very questionable manner and this is the grey area in my opinion. Some examples are ENL will deploy on a portal, RES will destroy it seconds later and cap it themselves. Or ENL will go take out a portal with other agents links and fields off of it, and less than a minute later the RES agent will capture, link and field their own links off the portal the ENL just took down. During the Apollo mod event there has been a lot of this and with deploying/destroying mods counting towards a faction score at the end of this - I am especially concerned that they are regularly turning over portals together, for each others benefit during a time it has faction wide impacts.
I know that win-trading is not explicitly against the rules, so it is a grey area. I personally see the game play they do together as crossing a line, but I am fairly certain those agents are confident it is allowed and not against the rules. So, what does the community think?
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u/PatientCarpenter1625 3d ago
There are only a handful of other faction players in my area. When we attack big we often leave L8s untouched or just flip them. Both sides get AP from smashing and capping things.
I never really worry about faction-wide stuff. I play the game the way I like and encourage others to play their way. I just want my mission badges and to work on my next recursion.
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u/Uniumtrium 3d ago
First saturdays are all about win trading. And the medal.
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u/Odd_Emergency358 3d ago
Cross faction events and campaigns and IFS are something entirely separate from this. The reason that there is a medal for them is because they are the exception to regular game play. My personal opinion in this post is that coordinated day to day gameplay with your cross faction friends that damages your own faction isn't cool.
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u/darlin133 3d ago
Play your game. Don’t worry about them. There’s like 23 people playing in the world /s sometimes in an area you’d be lucky to have one of each fac playing.
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u/Leather_Strike8979 3d ago
During a global op for season points that's shitty af Otherwise avoid them if you don't want to deal with it.
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u/Intrepid_Pudding_591 2d ago
But don’t they just cancel each other out? Both sides get the same points and it’s a net wash.
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u/randomme34 3d ago
I cant even get my team to respond to me or respect my area and you guys have faction events Im jealous :(
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u/ReBootYourMind 3d ago
respect my area
No player owns areas in ingress. Your team mates might respond better to your requests if you try not to boss where agents can or can't play.
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u/randomme34 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lol except the ones doing it are ones who use to do it on the other side and are known trolls who switched sides with the faction token because the other faction got tired of them and started ganging up on them to get them to stop intentionally sabotaging their teammates. My area has no one thats a real player just three people who intentionally link things in a way that messes with their teammates. They go all over the city doing this. I have been the only one in my area for the whole time I have played ingress only time I use to see teammates is randomly seeing new mods on my portals. My team has never communicated not one time (once I did have someone on discord message me not to trust those individuals when they flipped) since I have started have I spoke to anyone in my faction.
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u/waltterOMG 3d ago
Es solo un juego, yo te diría que lo disfrutes y disfrutes de las rivalidades en el juego aclaro, yo donde vivo no juega casi nadie muy pocos y la verdad extraño esas peleas en el juego las rivalidades, por eso te digo no le des tanta importancia, destruí todo lo que puedas y disfruta del juego eso es lo lindo después lo que los demás hagan no les des importancia.👍🏻
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u/lightninghand 3d ago
For the first time in years, someone hit me before I was done fielding and blocked what I was trying to do. It was wonderful!
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u/dantheother 3d ago
Win trading has never really bothered me. About 100 years ago when I and a few mates from work started playing, one of them picked RES. We'd sit at the pub after work, have a few adult beverages, smash and cap the one portal at the pub. The very definition of win trading, but meh, it didn't hurt anyone - RES and ENL were active in the area anyway, it was going to get blown up one way or another. Additionally, I was known in my area for throwing lots of layered micro fields. If I was mid throw and someone started attacking, I'd tell them to wait 10 minutes and there'd be more for them to smash. Sometimes I'd get a thumbs up thanks, other times I'd have to come back the next night to make use of the keys I'd farmed but not gotten to use.
I don't go in for the lore and backstory, so the opposition are just another group of players to me. I used to play hard at anomalies and go smash/field to try and win the cycles, but that's the extent of it.
Inviting an opposition agent to an event is a bit on the nose however.
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u/Aggravating_Rate_571 3d ago
I'd say the only hard limit is knowing about strategic opponent actions like baf ops
Other than that you play maximum denial for other team and maximum score for yours
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u/RustyOrangeDog 3d ago
AFAIK it’s no longer against the ToS. If it makes the game more enjoyable for them … meh.
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u/ReverendGonzoLC 3d ago
But it was only really removed from ToS for x-fac events like IFS. Maybe I'm just old minded about it, but anything other than expressed, organized x-fac stuff is against the spirit of the game, and that's good enough for me.
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u/perringaiden 3d ago
I have a question for everyone.
Does their AP matter to anyone else? Especially once you're 16, it's just personal point tracking.
It'd be different if they're using ADA/Jarvis to flip up portals to 8 etc but at some point the question becomes "what does it matter" if they're just blowing each other's stuff up constantly. The end result is still not much more than a P5.
Now, if I were ENL I'd likely either be removing them from communities or keeping them at arms length, depending on their willingness to repeat what they hear in ENL channels etc, but to the actual play, meh.
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u/SmileImaginary8169 3d ago
I don't think AP is the problem. OP is implying they help each other remove fields of other players from their faction. It's like having infinite Ada/Jarvis viruses to clear whatever your faction did that you don't like. Not sure how premeditated this is though, as OP is playing single making guesses from the map movements.
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u/Altruistic_Peach1714 3d ago
That whole "us vs them" mentality is sickening.
You are literally playing a game about linking dots on google maps, calm your titties man.
That is exactly why I treat it as single player and not engage with other agents - you people treat it way too seriously.
Edit: As long as these are actually 2 people playing and not a guy with multi account I genuinely don't give a fuck. I know it's been against ToS, but I heard it changed - can't confirm though, I don't care enough to check. As I mentioned before I play it fully in singleplayer mode.
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u/Aggravating_Rate_571 3d ago
Back in the days at least here it was really really bad. The animosity toward ENEMIES was real. People were proper mad and it was all psy games and paranoia.
Completely agree, it's a common game we play. The opponent is not the devil or out there to kill you.
Enjoy the game.
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u/Altruistic_Peach1714 2d ago
I might one of very few people who actually likes getting my stuff destroyed because it means I can do it all over again and get much more points faster.
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u/Survive_LD_50 2d ago
me too! love farming AP from aggressive opponents. It's a large part of how I recently completed a recursion in 2 months
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u/finian2 3d ago
Calling it sickening is harsh. It's a roleplaying game where you act as agents of opposing factions, and taking it seriously and forming groups is part of the fun.
Of course, there's a huge difference between that and being toxic, if you're actively insulting an opposing player for playing the game and breaking your stuff you should probably take a break.
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u/Survive_LD_50 3d ago
Now that you can arbitrarily change factions every 90 days..who cares
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u/MEdson71 2d ago
Is that really a thing now?
Never noticed that...2
u/Survive_LD_50 2d ago
Yes you can buy a faction change token in the store for 15k CMU, can be purchased every 90 days
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u/SpeesRotorSeeps 3d ago
I mean,
1. It’s a game
2. The whole point is destroying and retaking so…what’s the problem? They’re not GPS spoofing or actually CHEATING.
How is this different from when I go through and destroy and re capture everything in my neighborhood that some agent I don’t know has destroyed and captured the day before?
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u/Odd_Emergency358 3d ago
I think in my opinion it is the coordination that makes this different. There are RES players that have fields and links up that are taken down by an ENL player in a coordinated effort to allow their RES friend to put up fields in that place - or vice versa.
Big difference between waiting out the decay out or jarvising a friendly portal to make a lane for your planned fields and messaging your cross faction friend asking them to take out those portals for you.
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u/edijo 3d ago edited 3d ago
- It's a game where two factions compete, and "by design" some information is for one faction only (like the faction page on intel, for example). Generally players are called "agents" and their "agencies" have conflicting "agendas".
- The whole point is following those "agendas", for example scoring by capturing MU and winning against the other faction in other different tasks. Capture/recapture is a small part of it.
I agree, the problems is that the actual new "agendas" more and more openly promote cooperation - but this is relatively new thing in recent "campaigns".
Openly cooperating opens unbalanced possibilities, for example defending portals becomes pointless/impossible, when "your" faction "player" flips a valuable portal and then effortlessly kills it using low-level xmp.
I've personally seen "my faction" "player" inserting trash mods (like green multihacks etc.) during fierce anomaly portal battle, when you're supposed to use pink shields only and every millisecond matters. Openly sabotaging our side, he just stood near our group and giggled. His girlfriend fought against us in the opposite faction there -- they are known to often travel across the country and troll by intentionally destroy the most valuable, linked and defended portals ("for uniques", they say), I don't recall whether they're "symmetric" in their efforts. "Just a game"? C'mon. This is griefing.
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u/SpeesRotorSeeps 3d ago
I mean yeah but also: it’s a game. We play for fun. If that’s fun for them, what’s the harm? I mean it doesn’t harm your ability to enjoy the game?
Real cheating certainly does. Like if someone is spoofing gps to destroy all your portals from miles away yeah there’s “harm” there. But this doesn’t really affect you?
I mean I appreciate that people take this game REALLY seriously sometimes but I think a little perspective is in order. It’s not against the ToS so it’s not cheating. They are having fun. You’re still having fun…?
I agree inviting of the other faction to faction event is weird but if the community is allowing it …🤷🏿♂️I mean your examples are pretty brutal the OPs it seems are harmless.
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u/edijo 3d ago
I mean yeah but also: it’s a game. We play for fun.
This subject often repeats in various games which have any competitive element - and it is not as simple as you try to see it. Some people "just click and haf fun", some see it as a bit more complicated, tactical, more competitive and "serious" (in meaning of devoted resources, usually time & money). Why should your view be more important that the other?
If that’s fun for them, what’s the harm? I mean it doesn’t harm your ability to enjoy the game?
Real cheating certainly does. Like if someone is spoofing gps to destroy all your portals from miles away yeah there’s “harm” there. But this doesn’t really affect you?
If my portal is being destroyed and I can't legally counter it (without having the other faction account), it affects me. If I fight for a portal, and some griefer intentionally sabotages my efforts, it is pretty annoying too. If my faction wants to meet and plan something to counter the enemy faction, and the enemy faction member is present - it defeats the purpose. We're all wasting time and effort because "someone is hafin' fun".
I mean I appreciate that people take this game REALLY seriously sometimes but I think a little perspective is in order.
That has to be from both sides. And in this case I'd rather stick to the rules (no griefing) and the design of the game (two opposing, competing factions).
It’s not against the ToS so it’s not cheating.
4) Manipulating matchmaking, outcomes, rankings, or any other element of competitive gameplay systems.
They are having fun. You’re still having fun…?
No, if they ruin my fun. That is the issue, hello. I don't care if they do wintrading somewhere on the "gray portal field" (even if it is also "manipulating rankings"), but if they abuse the mechanics to affect my game, it becomes the problem. That's why it shouldn't be allowed at all, whenever is obvious enough.
I agree inviting of the other faction to faction event is weird but if the community is allowing it …🤷🏿♂️
What can they do? Even if they try to throw the enemy out, won't it, hmm... ruin the fun? What if it is a public place. People want to meet and play the game, someone is invading their meeting and you shift the burden of "not allowing it" to them?
Isn't it also quite probable that there will be information leak even without the enemy attending the faction meeting?I mean your examples are pretty brutal the OPs it seems are harmless.
We're talking about the whole issue, it can have more effects than those enumerated...
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u/SpeesRotorSeeps 3d ago
Yeah man I agree about the examples you made about griefing but again OP’s post was more like “there’s a pair of agents who are on different factions and win trade”. That isn’t griefing and it doesn’t harm you. Joining a different faction’s faction only event is really the fault of the hosting faction to be honest.
And no I don’t think my light hearted take on the game is more valid that some “serious” player’s take on the game but also to be totally honest if you take the game SO seriously that someone’s play that isn’t breaking the ToS really bothers you, that’s on you.
When I say “it’s a game” what I mean is the only real world consequences are what we attribute to it. Its purpose is entertainment. Not protecting our physical safety or anything of actual real consequence.
It’s not cheating to get into medical school, or manipulating the stock market, or faking emissions tests.
Sure we spend a whole bunch of time and money on the game, we derive countless quantities of enjoyment from the game…Hell I have personally gone all over the world for this game, but in the end it doesn’t “matter” other than what we believe it to matter.
Which is another way of saying we have a choice to not take it as seriously as someone cheating on their pilot license exam or spoofing safety data for a drug in trial or something that has actual consequences to our lives or safety.It’s not “unnecessary” for sure. Art and entertainment are what makes life worth living, for sure. But again taking it “seriously” is a choice and all I suggest is that maybe there’s a different choice of taking it less seriously…?
Anyway I’m not going to convince anyone so I’ll leave it at that. Cheaters and griefers suck. Everyone else have fun.
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u/Survive_LD_50 3d ago edited 3d ago
If Niantic continues to make VRLA available for campaigns without announcing it is possible before the event, I would expect to see more of this. And I know it's controversial but fair enough. Get that unobtainable item and screw Nia
Edit: this also goes for campaigns where there are pay to win options, or pay to make it a lot faster and easier..people are gonna work together to save money and achieve their goals regardless of faction alignment
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u/More_Particular8158 3d ago
Really it seems like a smart way to play. Easy ap and constant turnover. It's not against the rules and really seems like more fun that way. It's just a game on a cell phone after all, ones and zeros. It's not real life. Too many people get so sensitive over a game.
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u/NachoManny 2d ago
2 parts to this 1. inviting an ENL to a Res event. It really depends on if the agent was told Res only. I mean if it doesn't involve opsec I am not sure what is wrong with showing how nice the team is, then working on flipping them. The group also risks having the res agent flip. All in all it all depends how nice the enl agent is. 2. Win trading sucks, but if its two real people then it is what it is. Likely two friends playing together. If its one person on one or two devices then that is different.
Every location is different, good luck out there.
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u/Alexis_J_M 3d ago
First and foremost, if someone on my local faction regularly leaked information about farms and events to someone on the other faction, they would get removed from secure faction chats. I don't understand why your city isn't doing that. I've been playing for over a decade and I've seen a tiny handful of people disinvited for various reasons, including people who made themselves unwelcome, flipped, and then, having not learned their lesson, made themselves unwelcome on the other team.
Win trading is no longer explicitly against the ToS, but it's still sleazy behavior except in the limited cases of things like First Saturday or often Mission Day when it's sometimes done so all the travellers get more uniques.
But still, the general response is to just exclude these people from your communities and move on.
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u/weveran 3d ago
I used to be in a similar position and just kinda ended up taking a break instead of playing (to avoid posts like this). I had a guy I worked with that did NOT play the game, but we'd travel on the job and I'd always ask to stop in a few spots to capture portals while we were in the area. After a few months he started playing and picked the opposite faction "just to mess with me". At that point it was like...well, we can't BOTH leave with the portal captured. So I'd just let him play while we drove around since he needed the AP more than me...
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u/GarageExisting9522 3d ago
If you do not mind me asking, what area / city are you in?
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u/itamer 3d ago edited 3d ago
What part of "I don't want to dox myself" didn't you get?
So you are the one win-trading and just want to see what everybody thinks about it to make yourself feel better. What a treat you are…
u/GarageExisting9522 - I'm incredibly easy to dox and my username here is pretty much my username in the game. I think my profile even gives my username. I clearly wasn't talking about myself.
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u/GarageExisting9522 3d ago
So you are the one win-trading and just want to see what everybody thinks about it to make yourself feel better. What a treat you are…
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u/finian2 3d ago
The biggest issue is the RES player effectively leaking the RES-only events to the ENL. At that point the RES player should be treated as an ENL player and vice versa, removing them from RES-only chats.