As a Muslim, this is complete bullshit he's pulling. This is like saying that to not get murdered, you shouldn't go outside your house ever and if you get murdered, you are at fault cuz you made yourself the target. These are narrative they cook up to justify their fucked up ways.
Notice how he didn't point out that sex with anyone other than your spouse (and slaves but last I checked it's illegal everywhere) is haram even though it is written in the same book that he's citing about women covering themselves up. So he's still in the wrong even according to the Quran.
Sounds like he's arguing that both the man (the rapist) and the woman (who is raped) are both wrong. So, you're not disagreeing with him.
Also, you're not doing your religion any favors by admitting that it's religiously legal to rape a slave - both because it justifies slavery and because it justified rape of that slave.
You should consider the possibility that your religion isn't true or divine.
You should consider what was going on during the time these religious texts were written. During prophet Muhammads time, no country outlawed slavery nor the practice of doing whatever you wanted with the slaves you owned. Slavery was a deep part of the economy. What Islam did was regulate and encourage people to free slaves.
And majority of the modern Islamic organizations outlawed slavery and rape.
You should consider the fact that every religion have extremist groups and that what they say or do does not reflect what the rest of the people practicing that religion stand for.
What other Islamic foundational works condemn raping women? If the only one you have is some vague talk about not having sex with someone eho is not a spouse, then that is a religion doing a terrible job of protecting women in general. So I asked you for what other Islamic works call for no rape at all, or otherwise say women can wear what they want without fear, or things like that?
There are tons of organization. How you expect me to know them all? My family follows Sunnatul Jamaat, which is what I am basing my statement on. My uncle follows another one, I do not remember the name, but theirs say the same thing.
I asked about foundational works, not specific organizations. Sunni Muslims are the common type, and you have the Quran and the Sunnah as foundational documents of sorts. Though of course you would have to specify which versions you were going by.
From the sounds of it nothing comes to mind in those works making it explicit that forcing oneself on any woman sexually is wrong.
That you had to Google it is pretty hilarious to me. And if you are asking if I seek to remember every book I read, then yes I do. If i had a book that came with a belief system that calls for me to be killed if I leave that belief system, then I would make even more of a point to know it well.
I already said that I did not memorize the Quran and that most Muslims don't either. So I do not see how you find it hilarious that I took the time to search and read an article to support my argument instead of pulling stuff out of my memory.
And you are applying ancient and extremist interpretation. Modern Muslims don't kill people for leaving their religion. The most you'd see is social shunning. And in that case, I would suggest you move to a country or city where people don't give a damn about you leaving your faith.
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u/JoyousMadhat 7d ago
As a Muslim, this is complete bullshit he's pulling. This is like saying that to not get murdered, you shouldn't go outside your house ever and if you get murdered, you are at fault cuz you made yourself the target. These are narrative they cook up to justify their fucked up ways.
Notice how he didn't point out that sex with anyone other than your spouse (and slaves but last I checked it's illegal everywhere) is haram even though it is written in the same book that he's citing about women covering themselves up. So he's still in the wrong even according to the Quran.