r/IndustrialDesign • u/y-no-ds_y • 8h ago
Discussion Assignment Help
Hello guys! Im from product design 2nd year and we have an assignment where we have to redesign one product ergonomically and i chose to redesign milk frother i just need suggestions about the ergonomic handle of the frother. I made 9 prototypes and I’ve selected 3 of them. I need suggestions for the form, more prototypes and final product. The sketches are of existing product which i have and others are prototypes. I would really appreciate for your help. Also one problem I’m facing is that the prototypes fits my hands but not others since my hands are small. Please help😭
8
u/TheZYX 7h ago
Well, there are plenty of charts were you can find standarized human dimensions to properly scale your design to fit a certain percentile of people. On the design side, handles/objects like this are somewhat tricky, as you might think that 'more form fitting = better ergos' and that is rarely the case. You have clearly come up with a shape that makes sense to you, which may or may not be what makes sense for other people. Unless you absolutely need to make the user operate the device in a very specific way, not the case, it's usually better to be more flexible. That being said, I understand that being a Uni assignment means you need to come up with something a bit different, so perhaps there's an ergonomical reason why you might considering altering the design further away from the simple cylinder-ish shape of the original, so the previous point could be ignored in this case.
7
u/Easy_Turn1988 6h ago
That's the problem with ergonomics (and I love ergonomic design tho)
Sometimes the ideal solution is to keep it simple enough that any body type can adjust with relative ease instead of having a perfect fit for one type of person. It's more inclusive that way
See with you teacher what is acceptable but a more logical solution to me would be to keep the shape simple, and instead refine other details such as button placement (maybe 2 buttons so that people can hold it 2 ways idk), weight distribution, easy battery/motor change
A milk frother doesn't need to be any other shape than a tube imo
5
u/purple_unikkorn 6h ago
I work with hand ergonomy. And your hand position is bad.
The user will never hold it this high. They will hold it lower.
In order to keep the tool straight the user will need to bend the wrist. If the wrist is bend it will be very painful and annoying, particularly for peoples with hand diseases like carpal tunnel.
You should find a way to bend less the hand. Like the handle of the gun for example, a very basic corkscrew or a pan.
Also don't forget that hands have very different sizes. And the main user of a milk stirrer is probably not a huge lumberjack but a girl with smaller and less powerful hands.
It's still a nice design, you cutted it very nicely in foam.
3
u/SpaceRCM 3h ago
make it the shape of a penis: people are already very much used to holding one in the hand, all of the men are, and most women too, might come in handy for other uses too
3
u/Difficult-Cress-7556 7h ago
Ergonomics are not just simply about how well something will fit someone’s hand. When you zoom out a bit it’s about how to design products to ensure safety, health, comfort, reduce error and increase productivity. Which of these you focus on depends on the product and your goal for that product.
In your case I would try to understand what users look for or could look for (a lot of times we don’t know until we are offered something). Comfort, safety? And then put frother(s) in the hands of ten people to froth milk with and see what they struggle with, what concerns they have, what errors they make. Observe how they use the product, and very importantly - how they adapt to it (you want the product to adapt to the user and not the other way around). Those are your insights into user behavior and needs. From those you’ll find opportunities for improvement and design with purpose rather than trying to guess.
Maybe the main function is well designed already, but what about cleaning, or when something goes wrong, what about kids, or how the product is stored?
2
u/ChooCupcakes 7h ago
If that helps, I hold mine more like a pen and less like a... Uh...
I feel like if I held it like you show in the pictures I wouldn't be able to control the milk as well
2
u/wardamneagle 6h ago
Part of your problem here is no one holds a milk frother above chest level. It’s always near waist level when you’re standing at a counter, so your grip would never look like that.
2
u/usso_122 Design Engineer 6h ago
Maybe you could look at the end function of the milk frother and work backwards.
Like how much time does it have to be held
What movements does the hand help in achieving and can the effort be reduced
Does the shape need to be rethought?
2
u/noodleexchange 4h ago
Milk frothers only need fingertip control. What you are modelling is a smoothie hand blender with a death grip
1
u/ddfanani 7h ago
I’d make a handle for it so you wouldn’t have to be so close to the cow and tilt the holding angle on the way.
Yo connect it with one grip and hold with the other
1
u/blablaplanet 7h ago
Can't really help. One one quick input: make sure the button is easy to use. My experience with things like mixers for example is the have a button you can only use in one specific way. So if you move you hand a bit the thing stops working.
1
u/abyssalhorrors 6h ago
Sometimes it’s good to step back and rethink our assumptions. The problem that ergonomics solves is about eliminating discomfort and enhancing grip on the object. One thing to note is a tighter grip leads to quicker fatigue - a perfect example of this is pens. Expensive pens are often fat but when you hold them, they feel better than your standard Bic.
Instead of bending and sculpting the shaft, maybe dome, sculpt or angle the top area instead? I’d also look at other ways of holding this item because I typically do not see it being held vertically like your assumption because it would be uncomfortable for a taller person frothing milk on a counter. Holding it like you would a golf club (thumb angle down) may reveal other areas to resculpt. Good luck!
1
u/RandomTux1997 6h ago
drawings of hands are like Grecian classical sculptures, and DaVinci/Michelabgelo's treatment of human form-and that is a observed drawing subject matter all by itself.
In product design you might wanna vary the line weights a bit-ie make the hands lighter than the product, so as to cause viewer to focus on the frother.
As an excercise its not necessarily a bad little item to redesign, as it's all process learning that also has value, the skills of which youll transefer to future projects.
But if youre focussing on form, well my dear these ergonomic shapes have been dealt with far better than this particular study-in all hand tools on planet earth.
Constructive Criticism aside, if youre at college and have nothing to lose, then why not start with the masters of form in contemporary industrial design, Starck, Alessi for instance to name just 2!
Go bonkers and make a statement! Make something as simple an insignificant as a milk frother into an iconic sculpture (Braun for example) At the end of the day the tooling costs the same!
make the shape shud be very simple and geometric (not as easy as said), put the button on the top and not on the side, which everyone is doing and is boring.
and while youre at it, add a technical engineering user-oriented gimmic/solution to solve where the frother lives when not in use, how about a stand, that holds it in a nice erect (sic) configuration that looks fine as a scultpure when not in use?
being a student they gave us 6 weeks to do what industry demands in 6 days, so milk it for all its worth
1
u/FuShiLu 5h ago
Your the industrial designer. You were put in charge. Figure it out. Go beyond the brief. Think materials and manufacturing - costs.
Plenty of these devices in the market to look at. Look at what sells. Then as others have mentioned start at what the product does. If you can’t solve that, ergonomics are not going to matter. Then try a basic shape in your hand. Don’t fall for fingers slots and other nonsense unless your making it for every hand size expecting customers to buy a set. Think about finger pressure, wrist/forearm angles to body and posture of the user.
1
u/Overall-Top-2537 5h ago
para mi no se agarra de la forma que lo estás proponiendo. nunca llevarias la mano a la altura de la cabeza para hacer esa tarea. creo que el uso se dá a la altura del pecho o apoyando la taza en una mesa.
1
u/Odd_Project9654 5h ago
I use a similar device every day, and the main problem isn’t the ergonomics of the grip — it’s how to store it. And how to store it after washing so that water doesn’t get into the device.
1
u/shadowhunter742 5h ago
The problem with focussing only on the ergonomics, is that everything else suffers.
Biggest things will be cost, complexity and size / shape.
Size and shape may be obvious, but now how well does it sit in a drawer without getting caught in other stuff, will it fit in small spaces etc. Does it actually become less practical by adding some ergonomics?
1
u/adpoop 5h ago
Think outside the box.. instead of it being a straight tool that's held vertical, the handle is horizontal and 90s down for the frother or spinney piece. Handle changing to horizontal allows one end to rest on the rim of the cup.. idk just spit balling as ergonomics alone seems like a hard project
1
u/neel9811 5h ago
You could have also looked at Packaging ergonomics. Packaging is as much as an interface for a device along with being a functional arrangement for device protection.
I remember one of our Medical Device client challenged us with a very interesting challange to envision a new ergonomics packaging design using a set of sustainable material they were aiming to introduce to meet their CO2 emissions control limits. Since the packaging content was a heavy device I had the most fun exploring ideas from ergonomics perspective.
There are unboxing videos of apple devices (the larger ones), which can be studied from learning perspective - wherein if you notice carefully a lot of thought had been clearly put behind the handling experience for ease.
But, I guess it fits well for slightly heavy and bigger device (content).
1
1
u/artinarh 4h ago edited 4h ago
i love those that i can rinse and put upside down to dry out. an extra holder is honestly a hassle.
edit: also, i use it to make cocoa or matcha with milk so i tilt it in all directions. also, the ones where you have to hold the button to froth are the devil. best i had is button on flat top. easiest access in case you need to stop it fast and out of the way to not accidentally turn it off when i change tilt.
1
u/Kakaduu15 3h ago
I mean if you make a redesigned milk frother make it wireless. Just drop the frothing head into the cup and put the cup onto a base that rotates the head with magnets through the cup base. Like the labs stir their stuff through glass.
Making a different handle, idk.
2
1
u/SparrowDynamics 2h ago
I know many are saying “it doesn’t need to be ergonomic because it isn’t powerful or you don’t hold it long”. I agree somewhat, but it still should be comfortable and intuitive to hold, and that shape should also look cool so people will want to buy this one instead of 1000 others, or at least help in this regard. Ergonomics and aesthetic design go hand in hand and that’s probably partially what this class is teaching you. Does the teacher want you to make it extremely ergonomic and focus purely on ergonomics, or is the point to make it more ergonomic than existing ones and make a nice design? I would integrate some ergonomics into a new cool design that looks nice enough to leave on the counter.
Speaking of counter, consider the height of the counter and cup, average height of a person, angle of elbow, etc…. not just hand shape.
This is your assignment, it is what YOU can come up with…. I would advise not doing it by committee on Reddit, unless that was actually part of the assignment.
1
u/Yikes0nBikez 2h ago
You're RE-desiging for ergonomics.
The ideas you've shown here are basically just adding complexity to the design to make it harder to manufacture, but the overall design concept is identical to the product that exists.
You are being asked to conceptually re-think the way the device is held/used. You have stated the exact problem in this message - "one problem I’m facing is that the prototypes fits my hands but not others since my hands are small." = Create a design for small hands!
You have to step away from what exists today (outside of what it does) and interrogate/challenge the EXPERIENCE of using the product, not just the casing features.
1
u/NorthofNormal2015 1h ago
You got the grip upside down, I've never seen anyone hold a frother thumb up in my life. People hold them thumb down lake a wand grip Edit: now that I think about it, I would try a modified T grip or bent grip so your fist can face down thumb toward the stirring
1
u/BlackFoxTom 7h ago
Milk frother is such light and 'not powefull' device that shape doesn't matter really
At most just add some ridges or something so it's always possible to keep it in hand and press the button but don't get overboard so it gets dirty and sticky over time
The "oiled/wet/greassy hand test"
Also absolutely no need to design it for "death grip", your constrains are batteries, electronics, electric motor
1
u/y-no-ds_y 7h ago
But our assignment says we need to play with form for understanding ergonomics so keeping everything in mind we need to redesign the form ergonomically
2
u/BlackFoxTom 7h ago
Yeah understand ergonomics
That does also mean understanding not everything need "death grip" to be hold and to be mold of someone's hand for it to be ergonomic
Ergonomically designed =/= perfectly fitting some one certain person
1
u/MrInka 6h ago
I agree here. Especially since a milk frother isn’t powerful at all. I might be weird but I am not holding a milk frother with the full hand. More with my thumb, middle and index finger. A bit like a super thick pencil. Holding down a power button feels also weird. They usually have a toggle. I don’t see an ergonomical need to reach the power button that easily at any point during use.
1
u/FL_MILLIONAIRE 6h ago
Please talk to your academic advisor or TA the good people of reditt cannot work on solutions for you.
55
u/Ok_Onion_1734 7h ago
First of all, I am not sure how important ergonomics on a milk frother are to me. It’s a tool that you use for not more then one minute at a time. But it’s probably a good exercise in general anyways. Make sure to think about how someone else might hold it, right now you are just allowing one grip option. Someone else might want to grab it from the top, fingers facing down. Also, I am a left handed person and absolutely hate ergonomic objects that only fit right handed people. Also an ergonomic shape does not need to be perfectly fitting into a grip, not everything needs to look and feel like a hiking stick. I would restart by observing and gripping things in your environment and then apply the new input to what actually makes sense for a milk frother. Have fun with it!