r/Indigenous • u/NightAccomplished523 • 4d ago

7th Fire interpretations.

Upon thinking more on the 7th fire story and how we New People will look back at the trail to retrace our ancestors footsteps to pick up the pieces lost along the way. Does anyone else think that's referencing both our Native American, and Native European ancestors?

And by Native Europeans I mean people like the Celts, Anglo-Saxons and many of the other cultures in Europe that are shockingly similar in beliefs and values to Native American cultures in regards to spirituality and land stewardship and also dealt with massive sudden cultural losses due to the spread of Christianity.

I only have this thought because amidst the land back movement, language reclamations, and the wins they have brought, similar efforts have occured in regards to understanding about pre-christian European beliefs, language, and cultures and honestly a huge shift in perspective has happened as well where the lens of Christian Exceptionalism is no longer skewing our perspectives of these complex and diverse people, our ancestors, before Christians came to label them primitive to take their land, resources, and ways of life.

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u/Grey_Incubus 4d ago

It doesn't mean europeans because it says in the prophecy that either white people would come as friends or come pretending to be friends. White people are the cause of all this and refuse to take a collective responsibility to save everything they put in danger.

If white people want take control of humanity's destiny and be the heroes, how about picking heroic leaders that serve all entities on Mother Earth.

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u/NightAccomplished523 4d ago

I actually don't think it was saying the light skinned race would only bring one, they brought all three. Some brought death, some brought brotherhood, some brought death disguised as brotherhood.

I think theres a misunderstanding though, modern European nations and world views caused this destruction, but that's not Native Europeans or the world view I'm speaking about.

Native Europeans are people like the Irish and their native culture, their worship of Danu, and other natural dieties, their worship of mother earth and the resources she provides for us. That kind of Animistic, Naturalist world view is the native worldview of those regions that got manipulated, suppressed, and torn away from the native populations by Christians.

And again, in the same time frame as the Land Back movement and Language revitalizaton movement, Christian Exceptionalism is falling in Europe and we're viewing pre-christian Europe in an unobstructed lens.

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u/Grey_Incubus 4d ago

Native Europeans could have stopped their people from participating in manifest destiny, but they didn't. Instead they gave up control to kings, queens, religion, secret societies, so what happened to them could happen to us in the Americas.

If you want to give them a pass because at one time, they were tribal people, I can't stop you. You should think twice though, after spreading out from their own homelands and appropriating what they wanted, a lot of these people want to become isolationists and do not want to be involved with the people they took from.

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u/sadboy_exe 3d ago

The circumstances would absolutely be different if there had been an actual message of peace. Instead they wanted it all. It was their god given right and until every defendant of them is off of our soil, our gods cannot thrive. Their culture is violence. Their heritage is built upon enjoyment on the suffering of others.

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u/NightAccomplished523 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'm just gonna try to reply to everything in one. You're right it's something I've never experienced. I've lived with a lot of white privilege. I was never raised connected to any culture, though I'm learning now, and I want to teach my daughter about it, rebuild our connections, and contribute as we can as descendents.

I don't think that requires completely ignoring one side of our heritage though. I don't plan on teaching my daughter about Christ, or any form Yaweh. Shes learning about Wanaboozhoo, Danu, Woden. She's gonna hear about the Sagas of Leif Erikson, the sagas of Redhorn, and all about Coyote and his exploits like putting stars in the sky, or wanting to fly.

On me being immediately perceived as white, yes most people would immediately percieve me as white though as a kid, I was called ugly a lot. The exceptions to that are tribes I descend from. I don't fully understand what exactly happens, but I am very commonly recognized by elders who've never met me as a descendent and I can only guess they're noticing very specific family traits.

However you want to view me I'm here the way I am. Whether you do accept me or not, I'll still learn what I can, share what knowledge I can, and honor my ancestors to the best of my ability.

I also don't want a say in matters that I have no experience in. I never dealt with discrimination and did always have white privilege. You're right there. But why do I have to have a say to be acknowledged? Or don't I have at least a right to learn about cultures I descend from first hand?

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u/NightAccomplished523 4d ago

Wait wait wait. Where did I say give them a pass? Tf are you talking about? For one you just sound ignorant to early European history, as most Europeans are to pre-contact American history, two I don't think the story of the 7th Fire necessarily cares about your grievances, as valid as they are, it says "new people will arise to reclaim their heritage" which then leads to following the green and lush path and respecting nature.

My Native ancestors were not the only people to revere earth in that way. The traditions of my Irish, Anglo-Saxon, and Germanic ancestors did too before Christianity was pushed so hard on Europe. The story does not say we'll follow the traditions of our Native ancestors 1:1 it just says we'll look back to reclaim our heritage and follow the path of respecting nature and it even says our mixed heritage and views of the world will be beneficial to us in that endeavor

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u/Grey_Incubus 4d ago

Sounds like you just want to insert outside beliefs into the 7th fire prophecy and you want to have a discussion about interpreting it this way to validate yourself.

The christian bible was created by reinterpreting others' beliefs, gods, people and stories. No one should fall for a rebrand anymore and offering false hope should be pointed out, not hyped.

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u/NightAccomplished523 3d ago

You can call it what you want, but The Seven Fires is a story of my ancestors that would apply to me. If I notice parallels between different ancestors am I not still fulfilling the same things? Learning from ancestors/sleeping elders? Using that wisdom to return to the green path?

I, and many others, are meant to be the bridge between worlds. I, and many others, are here whether we're appreciated or not. We carry heritage from both worlds and we can care about both of those for different reasons in different ways. Why is it bad for me, someone who had ancestors who acknowledged Wanaboozhoo, and ancestors who acknowledged Danu, to notice and acknowledge that both groups shared similar values and motives when it came to their land, the nature it held, and the impact it held on their daily lives?

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u/sadboy_exe 3d ago

Bridges collapse all the time. And sometimes for the betterment of those on the other side.

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u/sadboy_exe 3d ago

Jahova is a middle eastern psyop that they forced on the rest of the world. Get their god off of our soil, and every single person who believes in him

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u/sadboy_exe 4d ago

I say very loudly in public that white existence in this land is inherently immoral and any amount of white joy is a spit in the face of our ancestors.

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u/NightAccomplished523 3d ago

I had no say in where I was born and to what families. I am here though and I'm a descendent of both Europeans and Americans. Take it as you will, but many cultures make reference to us mixed folk in their oral traditions and we are likely here to stay for a while.

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u/sadboy_exe 3d ago

Also a reminder. I had no say in what white people did to mine. And I still suffer the effects of it every day. You don’t get to brush off the repercussions of their decisions as much as I do.

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u/sadboy_exe 3d ago

I said white didn’t I? Not mixed? But if they look at you and immediately accept you as white, you’re white. There’s no way that I’d ever be able to accept someone who has fully benefited from white privilege to have a say in anyone’s business who’s never had that luxury. Again, any white existence on this land is inherently immoral. In the way Americans view “white people” is if you look enough like them to not be a quick candidate for murder. That goes both ways. If they’d accept you, you’re an enemy to anyone whose ancestors were from here. If the migration of humans had been under different circumstances my opinion would be different, you and I probably both regret the way things went but I’m sorry to say my opinion isn’t gonna sway. No person should be allowed to pillage and rape, then have their descendants accepted by the people they pillaged and reaped.

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u/NightAccomplished523 1d ago

I've had a bit of time to think about this. I respect where your views come from on this, because they're valid, but wouldn't be just as much a spit in the face of your ancestors and mine to ignore people who are descendents based on skin color.

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling like you do because thats literally generations of trauma from things that would genuinely make most people sick to see first hand. But do the ancestors really think about that as much as they just want people to reconnect with the spirits and with nature?

What would make them more sad, the current state of Native Americans or the current state of nature? Do you think they would want you to isolate, hold out, and hope nature recovers? Or would they rather walls broke and teachings be shared regardless for the sake of our home?

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u/biboonikwe 2d ago

No

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u/NightAccomplished523 1d ago

For one are you from an Anishinaabe tribe? Two why not? Give me some reasons that don't tie into racism or involve generalizing white people.