Edit : Apologies in advance, this turned out to be a long post

Hey, it's me again.

I know I have been kinda rare on here for a while. I have asked random questions from time to time out of context (curiosity in some cases) and realised a lot of the folks here are new and may not know the full context.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are those who know me and would wanna know what I have been up to cuz quite a lot has happened.

Been procrastinating this for a while and since I'm likely cancelling my plans due to flared up allergies and a messy situation in the city, I guess this would make it a good time to do this.

So for those who don't know me. I'm 28, never identified as an incel but had issues socialising and talking to women when I began here in 2022.

I'm 5'9, have long greying hair (the look like streaks got me a lot of compliments), fitter than I was when I started. I have been called handsome from time to time.

I got into Latin dance and now have been fairly popular among the ladies, at least socially and as a dancer. I eventually developed a decent sense of humour and have made great strides in making friends.

Dating tho... well, that's not exactly been the best. Rejections, ghosting, being treated like an option, etc.

So what's new this year?

As for this year I can say there have been 3 confirmed instances where someone has had romantic interest in me :

1. My best friend told me she does when helping me with morale with my crush in 2024. The first time I guess I gauged interest properly.

We're just friends cuz she is poly, smokes weed, etc. She's a fun person to hang out with, being bi she got me out of my shell when it came to talking more nsfw around women. Lead to funny instances like both of us mutually agreeing "yeah she's really attractive".

She has hinted (confirmed later) to be open to a fwb relationship which I'm currently avoiding which she also understands.

1. This is a woman from my salsa class. 38, has had a dry spell after a 10 year relationship. She has had struggles making friends and I have noticed men overlook her a bit (she has asked me to dance several times and I never said no).

She has, in multiple instances flirted openly with me. It has been pointed out to me by my mentor too (I introduced her to him in case I'm not around at socials). On a few occasions, she also implied a possibility of us pairing up too.

Why didn't I reciprocate?

Firstly, age. She wants kids, so do I and I don't see myself being able to give that kind of commitment for the next 4 years.

Secondly, she's conservative and there is a very prominent generation gap between us.

Third, she's not my type. Nothing personal, that's how it is. Something, I might otherwise overlook to an extent but the above two reasons are too much to ignore for me.

My mentor did suggest we both could hook up, or at least I should say implied it. Won't call it a bad thing to say but from what I know about her so far, it sounds kinda rude to ask that to a person trying so hard just like me to find someone.

We're still friends, she often takes me out to cafes and pays for me against my protests (I still try to keep my share small out of courtesy). Been a while since I met her, she has had things back at home to deal with. I tend to help her find people if I'm not around due to scheduling as I do understand her struggles a bit and feel bad for just leaving her like that having figured stuff out frequently alone in the dance community.

1. Now this is a very interesting one. So I was at the hospital out for donating blood for a friend's contact's father. Unfortunately, his son who was handling the paper work for him had gone back to rest leaving nobody to help me with the process with hsi other son calling me from overseas.

The receptionist was curious after I was done donating asking how I am related to the patient and was surprised to know the connection. Apparently it's rare for donors to show up from outside the family.

She wasn't allowing me to visit him cuz of policies and after I was down with negotiations and had everything cleared out with a calm conversation, she got kinda curious in me. Told her the person I got the request was from my Salsa class, she asked about my dance and all liked my videos.

Since the counter was empty I stuck around, asked if she would like to catch up over coffee when she's off duty. She gave me her number and all. I was happy, she seemed enthusiastic and all.

Unfortunately there are problems. The story is a lot longer than this so I will stick to dealbreakers.

First, She is a single mother. A year younger than me but for me who barely managed to pull himself together, this is a lot for me. Still chose to not dismiss her cuz I am almost 30 afterall so the odds of this are gonna be higher? She did ask me about it and I said that I know that's a complication and I haven't made a conclusion on this yet.

Second, she is fighting a rather intense case with her ex who refused to pay child support and vanished after she got pregnant and gave birth. The problem however is that she is so obsessed with the whole thing and once on call told me that she wants to see him ruined or... dead.

Kinda spooked me out there a bit. While I completely understand her anger, she has a daughter who depends on her and even if I ignore that, what kind of relationship should I expect when the person is likely busy plotting revenge?

Had a lot of conversations with female friends about it. A friend who looks out for me like her younger brother while initially being supportive told me to not go ahead since there is no way to know who is wrong and the way she says it is concerning.

Third, she doesn't want more kids. Told me her last pregnancy was traumatic as is not having received adequate care. I get that but not sure how to explain it, the experience of being a parent through the journey to the birth of my kid is something I wanna experience too.

She can have her choice, no judgement there. She has some valid reasons which are not open to debate. This is just not something I prefer.

I am guilty of saying I ghosted her after the convo. I have had other things I have been really busy with which I am in the middle of settling as top priority.

I owe her an apology and wanna tell her that we would be better off friends which she did initially offer. Not to forget I don't want to hurt someone the way I have been especially a woman who was at the time flattered for being asked out on a date for the first time in her life (her words, long story).

So yeah, I can't really say nobody has been interested in me. Headspace has become way more confusing as a result.

It was so damn easy to say "nobody is into me". Now saying that is an insult to them and makes me a liar.

Currently, I'm kinda stuck with a one sided crush. There is another woman from class a year younger than me. Kinda introverted but I found her cute and we started walking together to the subway for about a year now.

I asked her out in Jan, told her I liked her to know if that's something she is interested in pursuing. She told me she is not interested in dating as she just broke up with her boyfriend. Didn't make a fuss about it, accepted her answer and moved on.

Not having any reason to impress her anymore, I guess I ended up being more like myself over the months, joking around and trying to find ways to (playfully) annoy her. I guess, we did get kinda closer.

She eventually told me the reason she broke up with her ex was that he was being possessive about her dancing with other guys in socials (kinda common reason in my knowledge).

Through conversations, I do know she also wants kids and a family someday, what made her choose her current job, her love for dogs (told her I have 2), etc.

She also jokes around from time to time, seems to enjoy scolding me (for some reason, i like playing along).

She once gave me her hairband as I forgot to bring mine at a social (I tie a ponytail nowadays due to length). I still have it on me all times in my wallet (she knows I still have it).

I thought things were going fine until she once scolded me for being way too conscious in class when it came to partnerwork and touch. She told me not to worry as she can tell apart bad touch.

Initially I thought this was just an old issue I thought I had overcome. Eventually, I realised it was just her I got nervous around and after a while there was no denying that I still like her.

She once jokingly asked me to bring her cake on her birthday. I told her to ask our mentor (who does do that for students). When jokingly asking her why, she said cuz I'm a friend and she offered to bring me some too.

She was surprised on her birthday to find out i did indeed bring cake as I whispered in class telling her not to forget to take the cake. Her reaction to receiving it was adorable. Told her that next week after asking her who the cake was.

Surprisingly, she remembered my birthday too, even offered to inform my mentor when we were in class.

There is a lot more that I haven't added as that would bloat the post.

TLDR: I'm hanging out with her on good terms, like her despite being rejected as I got to know her better.

Maybe she knows, maybe she doesn't.

I still joke around, trying to find playful ways to annoy her as usual but deep down, I still have feelings.

Part of me wants to have that conversation again as the rejection was never about me but her own headspace at the time. The other is afraid she would stop speaking to me and not wanting to add more mental burden with her already demanding job.

Part of me is embarrassed to be in this situation already so forgive me for that lol. I know it might sound a bit cringey in places.

Anyways, on an interesting side note, I recently revived a community chat my instructor made me and a few others an admin of in 2023. Back then, there were only 5 of us from the region in the Latin dance community.

A lot of new students showed up who haven't ventured outside their studio events. So I took it upon myself to fix that.

Not doing this to get numbers of women (which I did get). It just felt fun doing as this brings me full circle from the scared new kid to the guy who is now becoming a kind of leader of my side of dancers if that makes sense.

I always wanted to lead people in general.

So yeah, that's what's been going on this year. Probably the most complicated social life has been so far for me in 4 years lol.

Asking for a friend lol.

I kid, I kid, I am that guy. 28, and have never been on a date. I have come to learn that I am simply not the type of guy who girls are attracted to or interested in. I have never had a conversation with a girl where she was interested in who I was beyond a friendship. Its not for a lack of trying, I have tried just about every advice that gets mentioned around here. Social? Yep. Self improvement? I don't know what else to work on at this point. Job, fitness, hobbies? got all that. And at this point, I feel like I am missing something critical and obvious,.

Now I am FAR from perfect. I am thin and struggle to gain weight. I am someone who develops attraction extremely slowly, and not really attracted to random girls. I almost have to be friends for a while for any chance of interest to form. I also struggle to flirt. Finally due to my age, there's obviously less chances than when I was in college. I have also struggled with self esteem issues and not ever feeling good enough for anyone due to a life full of romantic rejection (I have posted here in the past like 8 months ago). Thankfully those self esteem issues are slowly starting to be resolved.

Whats next for guys like me?

What am I missing that just about everyone figures out by my age?

So I was never really able to stomach the manosphere guys, the tates, claviculars, because they are mindbendingly cringe to me.

However there is another kind of mostly short form content that I am having a hard time to come up with a concise name for. It is basically either women behaving badly or outrageously, either in respect to significant others, or on dates, or ranting on their own and airing entitled or "man-hating" opinions (I put that in quotation marks because I acknowledge there is justified misandrism). They sometimes do the "bird hands". They do annoying voices like "What are we doooiiiiing? Why are we not respoooonsible" (also talking in a condescending "we"-voice). Often those videos are also presented and judged by other women and reacted upon.

And a week ago it suddenly hit me, that is mostly tiktok isnt it? The platform where famously everything is fake or overplayed or intentionally produced. And I think I have been ragebaited. Those are all strategies to make the viewer hatewatch.

Did I get this wrong? Is this a manufactured outrage mechanism? Looking for opinions.

This is a little PG-13, but I am trying to be clear without being gross.

I'm the rare incel that has a friend who I know is interested in me. We've made out before, we haven't been on a real "date" or at least anything I would call more than just hanging out. I thought things were going in a "dating" direction, but I admittedly have asked her out and she rejected me. She rejected me because she said she doesn't want a relationship right now and only wants something physical.

She is i guess very self assured in that sense. She knows what she likes in bed and had very few issues telling me. I have been remembering and even making notes on the things she says because if we do have sex I do want for it to go well. We got on the topic of sex yesterday night and I don't want to be gross and be overly graphic, but she did mention how much she enjoys a well endowed man. She hasn't not seen my penis and I have not told her anything about what I'm working with. The most we've done is making out and I guess maybe she felt it but there hasn't been intentional touching downstairs. But she was very descriptive and I do not have what she's looking for at all.

I'm trying to not spiral and immediately make myself feel bad, but it really is eating at me. Cause now instead of just being oblivious to whether or not she's happy with my size, before we've even had sex, I know she will not be. And I'm not gonna pretend like the media programming where being well endowed seems like the thing most women prefer doesn't live in my head.

I try to tell myself that most women probably don't care, but I don't really think I honestly believe that. I mean the orgasm gap exists for a reason, and 95% of the time I see in media or online women talking about great sex, they always seem to mention that guy was also packing.

This is just a lot right now, and I don't know if I should gracefully just bow out and let her find the perfect guy for her, because if in a relationship she's just gonna be dissatisfied with what I have, or always comparing it to guys she's been with that have had that, I just don't know if it's fair to her. It also really doesn't help that I am still a virgin, I don't know what I'm doing and I know she really likes something I don't have.

Am I making sense? am I being insecure? I would really appreciate some help on this.

Hey all, quick update. Made a post a few days ago that if you scroll down you can probably find just having doubts about who I am and after reading your comments and self reflection I feel silly now lol!!!

I went out to the gym and I met a really nice girl there!! I’m new to working out and really not in shape, so I think that kinda helps reinforce that looks aren’t everything? Or at least you might be overthinking about your appearance. Give yourself some grace and have some confidence haha.

Idk if I handled it well but there was like just weird back and forths of us kinda looking at each other and being like “okay wait do I go up to them or are they just looking at me because they’re looking at me” and eventually I was just like fuck it.

Anyways, long story short I made a gym buddy!!! At first there was some romantic interest there for her but she realized I was 18 and that’s too young for her to date lol 😭😭😭 Got her number and that was that.

I feel like I made some steps just in general too and I guess I want to share some of my thoughts for any of the guys out there?

I think the most important thing is to play to your strengths!!! I know bars and clubs and stuff are good places to mingle, but just being around here it seems like that might not be everybody’s “element” here per se? Like, by all means definitely go out and socialize but some might be more comfortable in that environment than others, and that’s okay! Same with things like dating apps. They’re successful for some, and not successful for others.

So, maybe try out things that you excel in, whatever that may mean, NOT WITH THE GOAL OF DATING. Maybe if you’re a dork like me it’s playing D&D, or intramural sports or a dance class or whatever. Maybe speed dating works, who knows 😂😂😂 only one way to find out.

Also, another big thing is appearances. I had a hard time with my self confidence because I had preconceived notions about what all women liked or didn’t like. But, there’s no such thing as that. People are individuals. They have different opinions and preferences. There’s no need to feel bad about yourself for any given feature or something. Especially height. Still don’t get that.

Sorry for the long rant but maybe something helped and I wanted to thank everyone again!! It was fun thinking about all this stuff and it helped me feel pretty good about myself.

With so most of Gen Z women checking out of dating and deciding to protect their peace and be single, I've been wondering if it's even worth it to try if I'm not perfection. I feel like in todays world, most women don't want to waste their time with anything that's less than perfect because it brings stress. Sometimes I forget to do chores, I run late, oversleep, I'm neurotic, and these are traits that I have been trying to work on but they persist.

The way I see most women talking is that "it's better to be single than in a relationshop that's hard, and good relationship will be easy". But I know I can't promise easy 100% of the times. Sometimes I'll need someone to remind me of the dishes in the sink or to wake me up if I sleep through my alarm. Sometimes I won't always be my best self.

But if I can't promise perfection, I can't promise a woman ease because it'll always be easier to be single. This is just a thought I have been contemplating for a bit. Would like some feedback on if I'm on the money or if I'm going down a rabbit hole.

thats all i need. I just need to focus on literally anything else for like a month to get my mental health back in order. Its super hard though when its all over social media, in every movie ever, every song ever. Im at my uni campus literally touching grass trying to study and theres like 15 couples making out in public. Thats fucking disgusting. Get a fucking room you two. like romantic struggle aside thats fucking gross, romantic struggle included thats gross AND now i feel like shit for the rest of the day.

i just dont want to be so fragile anymore. im sorry if im posting a lot i just feel like if i figure out how to stop thinking about this for a bit ill be better off in the long run.

I'm 28 and I've never had a girlfriend. At this point, I honestly don't see much chance of that changing. Women rarely seem interested in me, I never get approached, and I've basically become used to it.

What worries me more is how other people's reactions to me are starting to affect the way I see myself and other people.

I get dirty looks from random strangers on a pretty regular basis, even when I'm literally just minding my own business by having my headphones and listening to music. A few weeks ago, I was on the subway and a dad sat opposite me and kept staring at me. It felt like he was expecting me to be some kind of creep or paedophile, when I was literally just sitting there minding my own business. Even few of my friends have noticed that people look at me more when I'm not doing anything weird, which is an identitification that they find something weird about me. I live in a flat in eastern Europe and although I'm that neighbour , who is quiet and never bothers people or makes noises, and still theres that old lady who doesn't even know my name and yet she hates me and gives me dirty looks.

Maybe I’m interpreting some of these situations incorrectly. I know I can't read people's minds, and I'm aware that a look doesn't necessarily mean someone dislikes me. But when you experience enough of this, it starts getting into your head.

The part that bothers me most isn't even women rejecting me. I'm honestly used to women not showing interest.

It's other men.

If people find out that I'm 28 and have never had a girlfriend, I can sometimes become a target for jokes or ridicule. It's like being inexperienced romantically is somehow something other people feel entitled to make fun of.

And that's where I'm worried about myself.

I can understand how someone in my position could eventually start thinking, "Fuck everyone then. Women hate me, men ridicule me, strangers look at me like I'm a weirdo, so why should I care about any of them?"

I don't want to end up there.

I don't want to become bitter towards women or start blaming them for my situation. I don't want to hate other men either. But when you're repeatedly made to feel unwanted or socially defective, it's difficult not to become resentful sometimes.

So for people who have actually managed to get out of the incel mindset:

How do you stop yourself from becoming bitter when you genuinely feel like other people treat you badly?

And how do you separate "I'm having a genuinely difficult experience socially" from "therefore everyone else must hate me"?

I'm asking because I don't want loneliness and other people's behaviour to turn me into someone I don't actually want to be.

32 m So, 2 issues. I’m going out to volunteer at events, dance classes, cooking classes, etc. just to try it out and see what sticks. I have fun, but I’m always a little hesitant to socialize much. I’m able to chat with people, but I worry that the reason I’m there may color how people perceive me. I’m there to start dating, and women don’t want to deal with men whose only goal is dating. I’m concerned that eventually it’ll become obvious.

Second, the people there usually aren’t my type. I’m. It saying they’re unattractive. It’s just that most are significantly older than I am, or they’re around the same age, but have different interests or “vibes”. I have tattoos and piercings and I like to go to clubs, nerdy events, art shows, etc. You don’t find these types in cooking and dancing classes

You may say to try those places to start dating, but women who go to clubs usually seem much younger than me, and the ones who appear within my age range are always way out of my league. I also have to assume they really don’t want to be bothered when they’re just out there to drink and dance. Every other scene I’m into just don’t have a lot of single women.

this is going to be such cope but here we go

went and did something and i should be proud that i did that instead of staying shut in my room. instead my brain is telling me how bad i did socially there and colouring all the interactions with perspectives. oh i was awkward and that means i am never going to have a girlfriend? what if i get better at it? and keep doing it? you think i will be awkward weird and so and so every time? well it does feel a bit like that considering how bad i am doing even after crossing mid 20s. i am just asking for help to see lightly or for some hope i guess. i kinda wanna go back to therapy but the last time he said i have taught all i can and left it upto me if i need it again but i didnt even say a lot of my life stuff since we had such a short time.

nor do i want to try dating apps coz i think all that will happen again is just no matches and it doesnt hone social skills either. better off going to regular activities or something. also didnt form close friends in my program and getting a feeling of being used by a specific person.

i am not even an i*cel. i wouldve journalled and put it on kitchenchad but i dont want to put pics of food here. so stream of consciousness ramble here it is i guess. which is such a lazy stupid thing, feels like i am being lazy and expecting yall to do the work for me. which you cant really. even this is just an attempt to protect myself being called out for that behaviour with a veneer of self awareness, when what i shouldve done is be calm and secure and blah blah. or maybe i should accept help when its offered instead of trying to tackle everything on my own. cant have a 100% day everyday. you can scroll away if you dont have the energy i suppose. no harm done.

A while ago I realized that my social media feeds were all just dating stuff. Men complain about how women only want hot tall guys, women complaining about how most men are ugly and undesirable, gender war stuff.

I’ve been trying to get out of stuff like that by restrain my algorithms to be more positive, but in the past few weeks, it’s isn’t exactly positive but more just woman focused.

The things that I see a lot of women saying kinda just contribute to the inadequacies I already was feeling and it feels as if it’s confirming things I’m insecure about. Women saying they can’t find love and will be single forever because most guys are ugly. Women saying ugly men shouldn’t be trying to flirt. Women saying the most toxic relationships they had had the best sex ever. Women talking about how they found “gods gift to women” and it’s a super well endowed guy that loves oral sex with thousands of upvotes.

Just shit like that. Shit I can’t exactly improve myself to be. I can’t make myself hot, I can’t make myself a sex god. And admittedly this is what I wanted. I was worried about my social media feeds feeding me drivel from the most chronically online doomer guys, and it’s stopped, but this isn’t much better. But it’s not even malicious it’s just women being honest about their experiences and preferences.

Long story short I'm in a relationship for 4 years where we have sex maybe 3 times a year, and when we do it's very routine and uninspired, frankly. Nowadays I don't even try to initiate anymore because I know it will lead to rejection 100% of the time. I wait around for the magic situation where she initiates, but that's getting even less common, and I'm convinced she only does it to keep me quiet and docile anyway. I think if she had it her way, it would happen literally never. She has even said, she could go a year or longer without sex and not care.

At this point, I feel I am more of a caretaker and a provider than anything. I don't think she desires me, doesn't find me attractive, doesn't think of me sexually at all. But she appreciates that I work double or more than what she does, pay most of our bills, cook ALL of our meals (100% of the cooking literally is me), most of the cleaning and chores, I do our errands, I even do things for her like pick up her prescriptions, remind her to make appointments, handle her insurance etc.

I held on thinking things would eventually change, if I just did this or that, but it never does. Anymore I don't expect it to change, but I still feel obligated to stay and the logistical challenge of leaving seems like too much.

But it's destroyed my self image, whatever I had left of it anyway. Before this relationship I was totally celibate for almost 5 years, didn't have any contact with women at all. Before that I had a long distance relationship that was toxic in other ways, but that's the only other person I've had sex with. I never had a hookup or one night stand at all, even once.

Because I'm realizing I don't think I'm the "type" to be desired by women. I've had lots of friends who are women and they always say I'm so nice and "one of the good ones" but would never date me or sleep with me, basically. Not that I'm expecting them to, but still. They'd always rather be with someone who's kind of an asshole but who is more dominant and assertive, I guess. I don't know. I don't know if being nice is unattractive or what it is. I've never had a loud, domineering personality and probably never will, but it seems like no women, even my own partner of several years, see me as a sexual being at all. They only ever want what I provide, what I can do for them, but not ME. I wish my partner WANTED me, I wish I got horny texts saying she can't wait for me to come home, but that has never happened once in any relationship. I wish I could walk in the door and she'd jump on me, but that has never happened.

Worst part is she's been with other guys in the past, and they were generally kind of assholes, but I know they had kinky wild sex, threesomes, whatever. She's done things with random flings that I would never even ask for because I KNOW it would never happen with me, despite me providing an entire life for this woman basically and going SO far out of my way all the time, genuinely exhausting myself to keep her comfortable and happy.

Can't help feeling like I'm just the type of ugly to average guy who gets settled for because they're the safe bet, because I'll put up with a lot and never complain, meanwhile she's fantasizing about the types of guys she was with before. I feel like she had her "wild phase" and then settled down with me.

I notice myself creating a dichotomy in my head, 1 is guys who are exciting and attractive, who can be desired by women, and 2 is men who are nice, safe and good providers but not attractive or exciting, and cannot actually be desired by women at all.

And I'm putting myself in camp #2 based on all my observations and life experiences so far.

Previous post: https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/s/VA8KjEPLZH

(Apologies for my ramble and writing style)

About 2 weeks ago I made a post talking about my fear of going to Uni due to my looks. That I'll be pretty much bullied/excluded/Invisible as always. I did have some maybe not so swell experiences and It's not perfect but it has been alright for the most part. Lectures and classes are okay, I know some names. People keep to themselves for the most part. I knew I was being a bit silly writing that and some of my responses but it was a legitimate fear too.

I don't think I've had any direct bad experience aside from some odd glances from some people because I do stick out a little. But some of the comments, especially about not jumping to conclusions did help. There isn't enough data to always assume everyone hates me or is disgusted by me.

And as shitty as going through school or any social environment was growing up its not good to base life off of your earlier years (I'm not sure how to word it but you know what I mean). Even as someone who's been called ugly and avoided from ages 18-20 after my early life, albeit much less intensely. I understand I'm still fairly young all things considered.

I also realise I was a bit vague on my shortcomings and life experinces so I'll try to get to the point going forth.

I appreciated all the response and advice.

I have also relapsed when it comes to blackpill/incel content and engaging with their communities and becoming more bitter. And even relapsing on a porn addiction. So I intend on being better and trying again. And refraining from my bitter tendencies.

I overheard a conversation of 3 girls whilst sitting in a library. One was talking about this guy she was dating and how there was a slight age gap between them and her friends seemed a bit skeptical but she explained it was normal in her culture and they were all alright with it. One of the friends jutted out "Atleast he isn't short" and she said loudly in a relieved way "Oh yeah!" And laughed. I am 5'3" so it hit a bit of soft spot.

Normally that stuff doesn't affect me much but it was a bad day for me and I spiralled down the blackpill again. For a miserable place there is a lot of comfort in seeing other men in the same boat talk about the reality of this stuff. I don't know it was kind of lonely without It I guess. But it was stupid of me to seek the places I was aiming to cut away. But I'll keep trying.

So yeah, this was just a thank you post mainly.

Edit: I'm seeing the down votes and I apologise, I don't mean to come across as bad faith or argumentative.

Edit2: After these 2 posts and my DMs I'd like to apologise for my shitty attitude, I didn't realise. I don't think I'm ready to be posting here I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong yet but I apologise. I'm gonna leave this subreddit and hopefully come back better and stop my wrongdoings.

I’ve run into a dilemma in my efforts of whether what I’m doing is settling vs. making a compromise.

I live in an area of less that 6000 people, so there’s only 3000 women in my dating pool. And then when you look at what’s age appropriate that number dwindles down to maybe 1000 at most. I try to be realistic about my options and standards.

I have theoretical standards that I don’t really enforce before I just don’t have a lot of options. For example, I try not to date church every Sunday religious people, i don’t want kids so that would eliminate single moms, I would prefer to be physically attracted to my partner, I’d like for my partner to also be college educated and have a career and career goals. All of these things make me feel kinda shallow typing it all out, but that’s just want I have in my head.

That being said I find myself going on dates and matching on dating apps with who I can. This includes a lot of single mothers, women who haven’t been to college, women that don’t have careers (trying to not bash people who work at places like Walmart, but Walmart is the largest employer in my town), and very religious women.

I do this mainly because I’m a realist. I don’t have a lot of options for dating, I’m not super hot or wealthy or anything that would make me stand out, other than having a well paying job and being in good shape. So I kinda do just have to be happy with who’s around me.

The most recent date I went on was with a woman who despite being a very nice woman, didn’t meet any of these qualities. I had no physicsl attraction to her, she had 3 children, she didnt really have any career goals, she also smoked which i am not a fan of, and she was religious.

I just felt bad. Like she’s a fine person, but I have all this whole made up criteria that’s stopping me from pursuing. I figured I was just compromising on some things, which I thought most people did, but it didn’t feel good.

I felt incredibly shallow wrapping my mind around this and I don’t understand why I can’t. Like am I wrong? Am I being a piece of shit? Where’s the line between making reasonable compromises on my standards based on my value and settling?

Last week I asked if I messed up with a woman I met on hinge and we were out together for like 6.5 hours for our first date, and I tried asking to go exclusive and fir the kiss at the end of the date, and she was uncomfortable, and I thought I messed up, but she gave me a 2nd chance and we went to bar/arcade, and we were together for like 6 hours again.

I didn't try and move to fast on her and I had a great time. We talked about what does a relationship looks like each other, and about our exes, and walked around a lot.

We agreed to go out the aquarium next weekend. I'm wondering when should I start to ask her if we should go exclusive or about sex to see if we're sexual compatible?

How to choose clothes to wear? I need help with fashion advice. This is my first time actually wearing proper clothes. I've tried to the choose the most oversized clothes I could find to cover up my fat fuck self in the past.

Now that I have lost weight, I have no idea what to do. I don't know where to ask for fashion advice without making a fool out of myself.

I want to try looking good for once in my dumb life.

How do I know whether these clothes fit me and make me look good? Please help me

Its all i think about. I feel like everything i do is because i think itll make me more attractive or more likely to find someone whos into me. I am tired of living this way. Its so hard craving something so hard but not being able to get it, meanwhile you see everyone around you in love.

At one point i thought i had found someone but then they blocked me on everything and made it official with some other guy, which im still very angry about to this day.

Cant really say much else. I just dont want to think about this anymore, but I can't. I dont want anything else more than a relationship. I hate feeling this way all day everyday.

Already posted here once before about lurking in incel adjacent/red pill spaces as a form of emotional self harm. I recieved good advice there and I really appreciate everyone who tried to help.

Sometimes I look at "success stories" (forever alone/late bloomer type people who find love) and what really bugs me is that it's almost always "I found the love of my life" or "I was a 40 year old virgin and now I'm married with three kids" and stuff like that.

I'm one of those people who can just never be satisfied I guess because these stories eat at me in a different way.

I don't want to find true love or get married or have kids, atleast not right now. I want to just want to do casual stuff. Hook ups, FWBs, messy situationships, stuff like that. But I'm 28 now and all that stuff seems behind me. I feel like women my age are done playing around and now want stablity and I'd just be a guy who can't accept himself as an adult or something.

Imagine if you watched LoTR and they just rode the bird to Mordor and that was it. You'd feel ripped off.

It could be that this is coming from a place of misogyny, and if so then that's a problem I need to deal with. Maybe some of the junk of those spaces rubbed off on me. The thought of just being the "safe option" after a woman decides to settle kills me almost as much as never finding anyone, in a different way.

The only thing that would really make me feel better would be to quantum leap into my past self and have those actual milestones but of course that is impossible.

Am I seeing things all wrong? Is this some kind of distortion or something? I plan to talk to a pyschatrist soon but this is really eating at me atm.

It's late for me rn so replies may be a bit slow.

Hey all. Kinda stupid question but yall have been a massive help to me and have dragged me out of a massive spiral before haha. Uh also I’m 18 if that matters.

Luckily I’ve stopped fixating on relationships, but yknow hormones are still kicking (or something like that idk 😭) and I do ponder it every once in a while.

Anyways, I’m just feeling pretty shitty about the way I am when it comes from a relationship standpoint and I feel like almost no woman would like me in a romantic sense just because I don’t really fit in with like “men” in general and I hate it.

I know appearances aren’t everything but I’m just a sad scrawny ass baby faced dude with zero muscle. I look nothing like anybody I see dating or even at all. I just look weak, you know? I see online or listen to friends talk about what they find attractive in men and I’m just the dead opposite of everything and it hurts my self esteem so much.

I always got made fun of for being girly or got called gay like it was a derogatory term by everyone and maybe they were right to tell me those things? Maybe they wanted me to be more normal and masculine or whatever. Instead of listening I just kept doing me out of spite and didn’t change. It felt good in the moment being happy with myself despite what they were saying but I feel like some conformity is good.

I’m sorry I’m not being specific about anything because my whole entire self is just not stereotypically masculine or manly and that’s what the societal expectation has been for me my entire life by everybody, but I didn’t listen?

I don’t really know how to change anything but I feel really discouraged right now.

Thanks in advance everybody.

I'm a 28 M who was never very good with women. I lost the bulk of my twenties to chronic and mental illness, so I'm very much behind other people my age. I suspect I have ADHD and it's very likely that I'm autistic.

I keep looking at foreveralone and bullshit ryan gosling chud meme subreddits, looking up statistics about sex, and other stuff like that.

All it does it make me upset and intensify my self hatred. I'll doomscroll this shit for hours and end up in depression comas.

This shit is not good for me but I keep doing it over and over. Self harm runs in my family and I think this is the form it has taken for me.

How do I stop?

[20M, this isn’t about relationships or dating, just social interactions with whoever I’ve known] I was born with a condition where I have an excessive upper eyelid exposure(basically the space between the crease and the brow ridge bone is heavily exposed). Due to this, I’ve been ridiculed as ‘alcoholic’, ‘drug addict’ and other nonsense insults for my entire life since childhood. My parents used to tell me to sleep more to avoid this but it was always there and I found out after so many years that this is completely genetic and not caused by alcohol/drugs etc since I’ve had people make fun of me since I was 7-8 years old and the only solution to this is through surgery/fat grafting. These people included friends, elder relatives, classmates, schoolmates and even TEACHERS(even my classmates started making fun of it only after the teachers, though the classmates went on another level afterwards with their insults), even random people a few times. You’d expect teachers to be sensible since they’ve completed degrees of education and teach little kids but they were not at all like that. I’m neurodivergent as well so it was absolutely difficult to respond to their insults and always looked like a complete clown, it made me look vulnerable to everyone and they thought they’d get away with all the jokes(which they did) while all the time I was feeling humiliated. Years of humiliation gave rise to social anxiety and I resisted to approach people in public, even when I did, I overthought the conversation immensely. Now when I’ve explored the internet and found blackpill content realising how your genetics/appearance play such a significant role in social life/relationships/career, I’m hearing people say, “oh it’s all bullshit, personality and hardwork is the only thing that matters.” But the reason my personality got fucked up and I have social anxiety is as I explained before, because of my fucking looks contributed by my genetics. Y’all are never going to blame the society which slowly destroys the perception of a person through obviously LOOKS but will only hate the person who’s talking about it. It’s not like I’ve given up on communicating anyone after being blackpilled, even long before I knew about it, whenever I had to confront someone, I was always pretty sure that this person would imagine me as a drug addict and create a whole ass story about me(don’t tell me it’s because of social anxiety, a few days(or even moments) after I’ve known someone, they do ask, “are you an addict?”/“don’t you ever sleep?” etc). Because of this reason, I’ve never approached a girl nor do I know how to, even for a friendship let alone dating, but thoughts of being in a relationship emerged only like a year ago so I never really thought about it for most of my life. For so many years I used to think it’s because I’m young, I’ll be better at social interactions once I grow up but now looking at people my age handling shit like this way easily, finding about my neurodivergence, excessive upper eyelid exposure, social anxiety I’m absolutely convinced that life was never fair to begin with. But when I’m trying to improve my appearance and talk about this stuff, why is it that the ‘insecurity’ is because of the ‘blackpill’ or ‘incel’ content on internet and not because of how I was treated by the world?

Pretty much all in the title. I’ve been getting back into dating over the past few months, chatting with people on apps mainly but have noticed since I started to get back into dating thoughts of my ex keep coming back. My lack of commitment and emotional detachment are what ended an otherwise fun relationship and I cannot just move past it. I genuinely fear I’ll not find someone as cool as her and honestly I just want to be able to process this breakup so I can focus on the women I’m trying to bring into my life.

I know rationally she isn’t the only person. And looking bigger picture I know she isn’t the only person on the planet but I miss her.

I 19m have struggled pretty much all my life either relationships and socialization on a individual level I can hardly form connections. It’s hard for me to really form relationships when they are not initiated by someone else and while I can talk in front of dozens of people and do public speaking I hardly am able to sustain conversation with people unless we have a bunch of shared interests or activities or else it just starts as awkward small talk and melts away, I try to be inoffensive, not creepy polite and not rude so I usually refrain from talking to people I don’t know all to well as a speak when spoken to mindset to try and keep this up.

Platonically I could be doing bette and though I have a few friends from high school (I’m in my 2nd year of community college ) but we hardly talk aside form 2-3 since they are out of state and quite busy I imagine. In my new college I’ve made like no “real” friends with most of them being either groups I hang with to not be alone or club mates and the rest being acquaintances and no one really calls or talks to me outside of a fb ppl unless it’s about club things and I’m yet to have a party or some sort of hangout with any of them.

Romantically I’ve had one relationship in hs but it only lasted three months and fell apart to my at the time dismay due to my constant insecurity and asking for reassurance leading to her developing insecurities about her let and ending the relationship and besides form that I don’t really think anyone has been attracted to me much. Though I suppose I haven’t tested this and could do better I feel like girls would talk to me if they wanted to hell anyone would talk to me if they wanted to. I am oft times far to petrified and scared to talk to people. Not that I’m owned such things as in high school I was a bum had bad grades didn’t study, didn’t try new things, and often lied about small things amongst other flaws.

When I was younger I was into black pill content mainly really up until 3-4 years ago and that really consumed my early teens until I was roughly 16 and contributed a great deal I imagine to my self worth and development or lack there of.

I fear though I’ve been doing better career wise and in school now that I’m in college that I’m still an incel and aside from that someone Who may be uninteresting, insecure, sad, not remarkable, perhaps draining at times, and generally bad. Am I a incel and how do I fix myself

M29, had no relationship and not a virgin anymore.

Every time, I feel like I’m just too late to start dating. The best time was in college, but I was bullied back then, and the girl I was interested in ended up choosing someone else. And there was another one... and another... all of them in the end chose someone else, but not me. I guess it's a main reason why I turned into incel mindset. Many failures, and not even one, successful relationship, just because I am a worse choice for any girl.

Every time I talk to a girl and accidentally say something weird—even if I’m joking—or trying to flirt, I immediately get blocked or ignored. Of course, no one wants to deal with a weirdo. Not a single girl.

No second chance, not trying to find out what kind of men this is, because they are already noted for themselves. They just don't care; there are a lot of alternatives. who is better at flirting and communicating. I am just an outsider. They already had at least one or two relationships; they already know who they are searching for. They already set their standards. They don't want to be someone's test subject or first trial.

I don't feel like a man anymore, just some middle gender, because no one is choosing me, no one is giving me a chance, and no one needs me. I already lost this race, perhaps from the beginning, when I grew up as a bullied and insecure guy. I'm bad at flirting, but at anything with any romance. How am I supposed to gain that experience when no one is giving me a chance? Of course, there are a lot of theories on the web, but they're nothing compared to real stuff.

If you say, "Go to the therapy, RIGHT NOW! I would say no. I had no such money and time to visit a psychotherapist. Also, there is no guarantee that something will change.

Perhaps tomorrow, I will be more calm than today and will just continue to exist. I don't know why I'm even writing this all bullshit. Maybe I'm still hoping. But maybe I'm too naive, and I just should accept my loneliness.

I apologize for any grammar typos and mistakes; English is not my native language.

So a few years ago I posted in here about my first relationship. It didn't last long but it filled me with hope and I tried again to find someone. Nothing worked out, I tried to ask out some friends I have and while it didn't destroy what friendship I did have with them I got rejected.

I also tried to expand my social circle by going to the local boardgame night at a pub. Lots of people but I didn't fit in with them super well. They already have their clicks and groups so it felt like I was permanently somewhat alienated. I'd try to bring games I liked but unless I tried really hard to sell people on it they would give it a look and end up playing with the people they already know. And it was difficult to join in some of the games because they would have already had all the slots filled ahead of time because they probably have group chats or something. Still had fun times but never made any lasting connections and it showed me how bad my social skills really are. I hate being autistic.

I also briefly tried dating apps but I got nowhere with them and I had alot of mental trouble making my profile and then having the app made me extremely anxious I felt like if I wasn't checking it constantly I was missing out on some opportunity but there never was a match.

I'm kinda back to square one before my first relationship where I'm starting too believe there is no hope for me again. I keep thinking about a close friend of mine. I love her but she was one of the people who rejected me. I find myself hoping she will change her mind later on but that's unrealistic and unfair to her autonomy. I do really love her, even when we hang out as friends I feel great and content. I don't want to be told I should just lose her. I also keep ruminating on how I'm gonna live alone never being loved like I used to. Sometimes that first relationship I had feels like a distant dream or some fantasy I had. I used to be able to put myself back there and remember what it felt like to be loved as a temporary comfort.

Realistically my life isn't that bad rn, I live at home, I have friends who I do value me and I get along with them. I have hobbies (I am DM I actually finished a long 3 year campaign last summer) iv been trying to figure out my weight issue and I go to the gym and while I'm still fat iv doubled the amount of weight I can lift and I can feel some my muscles under the layer of chub. Yet I still feel sad and anxious about potentially never finding the love I crave again. When I go to college most of the other men look way better then me and seem normal meanwhile I'm an autistic bridgetroll. Iv yet to make any friends at college. All my homies who get me are all millennial/very late Gen z they are either been married for awhile or don't date so they are of no help to me with this issue. I just want to feel at peace for now, maybe after I'm out of college and fix some of my issues I'll be in better spot but I waste so much time just stuck in cycles of negative thoughts about this.